The Gamer's Quarter

Ketch · . Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420

another facetious topic:

What is the role of Princesses in computer games? It seems to me that they (and girlfriends) are there to be kidnapped and thus give the protagonist a reason to go through the game. They also provide an easy ending point to the game. But why does the player play, is it to rescue the princess, or is it to enjoy the levels leading up to the end of the game?

Is Princess Peach real or merely the imagination of a sexually frustrated plumber?
Is Mario our Don Quixote, forever tilting at Windmills (giant turtles?).

What do these plots add to games?

ApM · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:00 am Post subject:

I thought Chris Crawford was our Don Quixote.

Also, this.

Seriously, to call recuing the princess the flimsiest and most cliched excuse for a plot in videogames is an understatement. Why was it so pervasive in its time? Well, SMB did it, and so clearly every game about jumping on platforms also needed a paper-thin plot about someone getting kidnapped. Creative laziness, nothing else.

Why was the kidnapping plot in Super Mario Bros? Because Pauline served a useful purpose in Donkey Kong, physically showing you your goal at the top of the screen. Similar purpose, but much less effective, and so it doesn't actually get a whole lot of weight put onto it.

dessgeega · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:37 am Post subject:

tim boucher wrote a nice piece - now down - called "please rescue the pincess!" in which he argued that the stolen princess represents the player's anima, or feminine aspect, which must retrieved for the animus - masculine aspect - to achieve wholeness. like when the shekina was seperated from god, the land - the player's emotional landscape - has fallen into turmoil and balance can only be restored when the player's dual halves are reuinited.

that being said, i really hate playing games where men rescue women.

(and more joey comeau, please!)
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dhex · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:44 am Post subject:

aren't princess rescues sort of 1980/90s?
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player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Resident Evil 4 is a postmodern take on the princess story.
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SuperWes · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:58 am Post subject:

I think this story is prominent because it's a fantasy convention that's well-known enough to give the player a reason to play the game without offering a lot of exposition.

Exposition sucks.

(Good call pointing out RE4. I guess Presidents' daughters are the new princesses!)

-Wes
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friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

dhex · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 8:41 am Post subject:

just to continue my own windmill tilt exposition, half life 2 not only avoids that convention, it reverses it quite a bit in some cases. alyx is far smarter and better than gordon in a lot of ways.
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player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Mister Toups · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:05 am Post subject:

Landstalker has the best princess to be rescued.

This topic cannot proceed without discussion of Super Princess Peach.
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Lackey · . Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada

I was thinking of the CD-i game(s?) where you play as Zelda. Where's Sce...panic? I'm really sorry.

All the screenshots of Super Princess Peach have the entire upper screen occupied by her face. This seems like it would be extremely disconcerting. But also, it's a little like if they made a DOOM port for DS.
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SuperWes · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:21 am Post subject:

Lackey · . Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada

This is actually the most hilariously literal gender dichotomy ever enacted in a videogame.
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Ketch · . Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420

more like Super Princess P.M.T Wink

Lackey · . Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada

By the way, what the hell is the top-left emotion? Singing?
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dessgeega · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:00 pm Post subject:

i don't think this thread and i are compatible anymore.
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dhex · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:13 pm Post subject:

is the peach ds game supposed to be offensive or clever?
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Hubz · . Joined: 12 Oct 2005 Posts: 6 Location: Oklahoma, USA

It is an overused plot but really it's just an easy way to get the ball rolling if your story isn't going to be all that important, after all we enjoy Mario for it's gameplay and not it's simple plots Smile

Yeah I'm not sure how I feel about Princess Peach but it looks kinda cool. I think it got decent ratings in Famitsu if that means much.
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Lackey · . Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada

SuperWes · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:29 pm Post subject:

To fully piece together the answer to that question you must learn that in Japan offensive=clever.

This is the country that gave a Seal (Tama-chan) citizenship, but refuses to give it to partial-Koreans that have been living in the country for thousands of years the same benefit.

-Wes
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SuperWes · Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 10:29 pm Post subject:

To fully piece together the answer to that question you must learn that in Japan offensive=clever.

This is the country that gave a Seal (Tama-chan) citizenship, but refuses to give it to partial-Koreans that have been living in the country for thousands of years the same benefit.

God I love Japan.

-Wes
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Persona-sama · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 am Post subject:

What about Ico?
There's sort of a princess to rescue. It could also be survival horror though.
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dhex · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:43 am Post subject:

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:21 am Post subject:

No, not "Seal" the black musician. Seal the animal.

Read this story:
http://www.crazyjapan.com/CJT--May%2025_2003.html#tama

I'm honestly a little disappointed with the direction they took with Super Princess Peach. Mostly because now there's not a chance in hell it'll be released in the US.

-Wes
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dhex · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:23 am Post subject:

oh. well.

egg on my face, eh?
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dessgeega · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:54 am Post subject:

we can only hope.
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dhex · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:17 am Post subject:

indeed!

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:33 am Post subject:

ApM · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:24 am Post subject:

I think maybe I would be remiss if I didn't bring up Eets at this point?

dhex · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:30 am Post subject:

huh. looks like they should have just licensed eets.
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player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Eets is gorgeous.
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"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

Ketch · . Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420

what about James Sunderland? (SH2)

dessgeega · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject:

he's gorgeous too, i guess?
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dhex · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:52 pm Post subject:

he talks too much like william shatner.
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Mister Toups · Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:43 pm Post subject:

Yeah, Silent Hill 2 is a pretty nice twist on the "rescue the princess" cliche, now that you mention it.
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

I'd love to see SPP released over here. There's been too little Super Mario Bros-ish platforming and way too much Super Mario Bros. brand dilution over the past few years (Mario Baseball, Mario Strikers, Mario appearances in NBA Street 3, DDR, SSX, etc., etc.). A new platformer along similar lines is sorely needed. Hell, I might even import it.

SuperWes · Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:21 am Post subject:

Ketch · . Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420

And what's up with Mario's moustache? is he hinting at a hidden side to his sexuality? Twisted Evil

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

oh i get it because all moustachioed men are gay that was very clever
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DonMarco · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903

dessgeega · Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject:

what's...are you hinting that mario's a leather daddy?
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Mister Toups · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:17 am Post subject:

No, sometimes have a mustache means you are a pedophile.
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aljones15 · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:17 am Post subject:

as long as we're knocking japan may as well get all into their pedophilia
impulse

anyway, hoping to pick up super princess peach when it comes out what next week or so?

as for sexuality and all that. it seems to be that the princess in a far away castle was about as good as it got for stories with the original nintendo. Think about it, if you only got 8-bits and limited memory, the best thing to do is do something understandable and simple: hence Mario's ambigious kinda-sorta girlfriend gets kidnapped every once in awhile and a bunch of fairly simple textures are mapped into ever more elaborate patterns and designs, hence you get a lot of a cart with a minimal amount going in. Shaskespeare re-wrote ancient folklore, becuase everyone knew the story, he focused on word play and characterization, Miyamoto focused on platforming and a basic story that his predominately male audience could identify with. The problem I don't think is with the game, as much with the society behind the game although Super Princess Peach does seem a bit dainty for even Japanese feminity which is still what you might call pre-feminist by American standards, although the decourers running through Japan's reggae and indie underground do seem to be more in line with the American can do feminite mentality...

aljones15 · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:32 am Post subject:

following up on my previous post, when super mario hit you couldn't compel a game by story alone (text based adventures aside), obvious context necessitated that story go to the way side, hence what makes SM so clever is that it managed to convey story simply by repeating several definied elements in increasingly complex puzzles. The puzzles were open ended though compared to traditional puzzles etc.
Miyamoto or whoever's choice to make the game about a guy rescuing a girl hardly seems sexist, in fact if anything Princess Peach seems remarkably unshaken by her ordeal etc. The point being, game design and technical limitations prohibted the creation of the fully fledged characters that defy stereotypes, even Mario could be constructed as a slight to Italians pretty easily (especially when porn stars portray you on children's shows). The problem with Princess Peach, which I do agree with, is that it continues to reinforce a stereotype when the technology is there to portray her as more than just a dianty princess, but let's take this as it: it's an ironic kid's game. The whole thing is nothing more than a wink and a grin for another good platformer. I don't think Nintendo intends to imply that woman actually work like Princess Peach if anything her new found action role seems to be a kitchy aside to who outdated her concept of feminity seems to be.

peace,
A

ApM · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:24 pm Post subject:

Captain Lou Albano was a wrestler, dude.

dessgeega · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:06 pm Post subject:

to aljones15, everyone is a porn star.
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