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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: of human bondage |
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http://www.game-ism.com/?p=91
vaguely nsfw sort of.
verdict? hey, we all have hobbies. mine isn't anthropomorphizing the (wo)man in the moon as it were, but to each their own.
on the other hand, i did spend a bit of time trying to figure out if father grigori was eastern orthodox so...yeah. _________________
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Dracko .
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Hot. _________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!" |
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Mr. Mechanical Friendly Stranger
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276
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Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Saw this the other day. Pretty neat, whether it's intentional or not. _________________ Mr. Mechanical |
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kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Mr. Mechanical wrote: | Saw this the other day. Pretty neat, whether it's intentional or not. |
I gotta say, I missed it the times I played it, but now it seems pretty damn intentional. _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: |
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I'm sure it's intentional! If the developers themselves said it was meant to look like 'Venus hanging upside-down', then what more do you want? Jam on it?
Hey remember when me and Dess were saying the end of Portal was supposed to be moving and GlaDOS and Chell's relationship was more complex than you guys were giving it credit for, and everyone was like 'DAHH SHUT UP, I LIKE THE SONG, CAKE, HURR HURR!!' You remember that, right
WELL HERE'S MUD IN YOUR EYE, FELLAS |
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kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Harveyjames wrote: | I'm sure it's intentional! If the developers themselves said it was meant to look like 'Venus hanging upside-down', then what more do you want? Jam on it?
Hey remember when me and Dess were saying the end of Portal was supposed to be moving and GlaDOS and Chell's relationship was more complex than you guys were giving it credit for, and everyone was like 'DAHH SHUT UP, I LIKE THE SONG, CAKE, HURR HURR!!' You remember that, right
WELL HERE'S MUD IN YOUR EYE, FELLAS |
I don't remember if I was previously arguing against the complexity view, but I think it's more about the complexity of GlaDOS and her motivations, than of the relationship per se. I mean this view would increase the relationship (Chell going from mere victim to odd victm/saviour) but mostly it's about GlaDOS and, if anything, her relation to Aperture Science.
but especially with game-isms' interpretation of the song, it's way possible that we're overanalyzing this, demand consistency and singular backstory from details chosen for effect, whether comic or, esp. with this bondage thing, dramatic and emotional.
I need to go back to this level and see if the visual interpretation works from all angles; my personal excuse for not seeing it earlier was how much the final boss looks like a Ur-Quan or Kohr-Ah from Star Control / Star Control 2.
Study in the Kohr-Ah and how they were exactly ripped off for the Matrix:
http://www.kisrael.com/viewblog.cgi?date=2003.12.05 _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | I'm sure it's intentional! If the developers themselves said it was meant to look like 'Venus hanging upside-down', then what more do you want? Jam on it? |
that would help.
perhaps i'm dull. that's cool.
alternate explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia _________________
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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The full quote is "[we planned it to look like] Botticelli’s Venus hanging upside down, but we decided to go with something else and use some feminine lines within the structure.”
The operative part of that is '[WOMAN] HANGING UPSIDE DOWN'.
Looking at that image as A WOMAN HANGING UPSIDE DOWN, which is not such a great stretch as the developers have stated that they intended it to look like A WOMAN HANGING UPSIDE DOWN, you can clearly discern a head, a torso, thighs,buttocks, and arms. I'll give you pareidolia. The gag and the bondage theme are a bit more of a leap, but they fit pretty well. Why else would they want to depict her upside down in the first place?
I would be interested in seeing the glados model from different angles.
There's a really interesting interview with Erik here.http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=518.
Quote: | Tell us about GLaDOS.
We wanted an adversary personality that hadn’t been done to death. I mean, GLaDOS does yell a lot and shoot rockets at you, which I guess is fairly traditional, but she’s also kind of supportive and funny and sometimes she’s a little sad and even scared. You get to know GLaDOS over the course of the game and, hopefully, you feel like your actions are really putting her through the wringer emotionally. We give you some quality time to luxuriate in all the emotional pain you’re causing her, which, I think, is a lot more satisfying than simply throwing a bomb into her exhaust port or whatever. That’s not to say she doesn’t get a few zingers in herself, though. She says some very hurtful things and, honestly, by the end, it’s pretty clear that this sick relationship is unhealthy for both of you. |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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to be honest, having only played the endgame twice, i was reminded more of that crazy eye lady witch puppet from the dark crystal. looking at the above without the comparison artwork, i didn't really see anything along those lines - and i wonder if it would look like that from another angle. even now it reminds me of the ultraviolet whitening system my dentist has (dental work weighing heavily on my mind these days) but i may reinstall portal to find out this weekend if other stuff goes well.
my take on it was more like "oh, she's completely psychotic" which is why i wasn't surprised she was trying to dump me into a fire.
i mean, if some crazy dude down the street is shooting a crossbow at me while yelling about ducks in a pond, i'm not really going to stop and ponder what kind of relationship he had with his dad so much as run away screaming. i didn't find her sympathetic, really, but i am clearly no one's target audience except perhaps michael bay. (note: i don't like michael bay but i couldn't think of someone less cultured.)
edit: as a comparison to shodan, glados is - to steal a quote from a dresden dolls song - "the kind of girl who tells you she's bipolar just to make you trust her." shodan isn't delusional, just ahem very driven. driven to mass murder and other unethical pursuits, but i's are dotted and t's are crossed.
double edit: my wife's verdict is "that doesn't look like the other picture at all." (she's never played portal, or any game really) _________________
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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isn't this technically of robot bondage? _________________
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Redeye .
Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 986 Location: filth
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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nsfw
Robot @ wiki:
The origin of the word is the Old Church Slavonic rabota "servitude" _________________ I felt sheer anarchic joy when I ran over my first pedestrian.
Last edited by Redeye on Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:30 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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glasdos and shodan have nothing on Durandal. Or even Tycho. _________________
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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dhex wrote: |
double edit: my wife's verdict is "that doesn't look like the other picture at all." (she's never played portal, or any game really) |
Here, someone went to the trouble of combining the two (me):
I hadn't thought about the tv screens as seashells... maybe they're left over from the Venus concept!
Erik says the reason there is an incinerator in Glados's chamber is because Apature Science put it there so there could easily incinerate her if she went insane. |
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kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
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Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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So I went through the ending, grabbed a few images and movies.
I think the idea of it being am inverted figure is absolutely correct, with a clear torso and rear, head, and two arms. Especially with the movement at the neck.
In terms of the posture, the biggest question is the other arm:
It seems to clearly be an arm, but the angles different than in the interpretations above, bent at the elbow.
Two youtube videos (sorry for the quality yadda yadda)
Entering the chamber, doing a circle strafe for a 360 view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ggVTm8LRVw
The very end. Its interesting to note how one arm seems to be freed, almost looking like its ripping off one of the "chains":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRN7TbnBfXI
Keeping up the bondage and/or emo theme, one of the most striking lines (IMO) in GLaDOS' monologging at the end is "The difference between us is that I can feel pain." The first time I played, that really jumped out at me as an explanation for her psychopathic behavior... _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Ok, well that seals it for me. The ass is even ass-shaped, as I believe I posted in your youtube comments.
Can anyone look at the GlaDOS model in the Source model editor? Are the sections of the body labelled appropriately (head, torso, pelvis, arm, etc)? Can you take screenshots? |
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minkee .
Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 4
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:35 am Post subject: |
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Oh no. I was perfectly happy before with having defeated the crazy robot that was trying to get me killed, and escaping. Now I feel really bad, and also sad for her. Maybe I could have helped ;x |
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Dracko .
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Oh, that Trevor Brown. _________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!" |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: |
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minkee wrote: | Oh no. I was perfectly happy before with having defeated the crazy robot that was trying to get me killed, and escaping. Now I feel really bad, and also sad for her. Maybe I could have helped ;x |
Welcome to the forums! |
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minkee .
Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 4
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Harveyjames wrote: | Welcome to the forums! |
Hello o/
I didn't want to think of Glados in forced servitude, bound against her will, etc, so I decided there must be other ways to look at it. Like this:
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kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: |
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That is really funny. _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
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minkee: nice!
cycle: i heard you like marathon. is this true?
dess: let's ask somerset what he thinks:
apparently the answer is "no."
harvey: somehow combining the image the guy used to make his painting thing - i.e. what he used to show this connection in the first place - with the image he was using as his model is a less than convincing argument.
on a serious note...if we were to poll:
how many people saw this without being told about it first? on your first playthrough?
on that video, from some angles, sure it looks like an inverted s-curve. from others it looks like a series of tubes and loops, or some kinda teeth whitener from the future.
edit:
Quote: | The first time I played, that really jumped out at me as an explanation for her psychopathic behavior... |
i dunno broham...maybe i've just been unfortunate enough to know a lot of really emotionally manipulative young women when i was younger or something, but that's classic YOU DON'T REALLY LOVE ME AND YOU'RE A MONSTER emotionally abusive behavior.
the more we anthropomorphize her, the more i am bewildered as to why anyone would feel badly for her. _________________
Last edited by dhex on Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: |
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i saw it when i first played the game (and only time i'll EVER PLAY IT), i just didn't really think about it. and I still won't! _________________
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Dracko .
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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the key is inside the vagina (portal) _________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!" |
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Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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daracko dont steal my ideas ok _________________
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purplechair .
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: |
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dhex wrote: | on a serious note...if we were to poll:
how many people saw this without being told about it first? on your first playthrough? |
When I first saw her, I identified her shape as being "the shape of a thing that is about to die". |
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: |
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dhex, i spent most of my time thinking about the more obvious piecewise deconstruction of her mechanical psyche when you kill her. the shape of her body was more a focal point for my aiming than my anthropomorphizing. _________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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sediment .
Joined: 15 Aug 2007 Posts: 428 Location: SUPERPOWER GEORGIALAND
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: |
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I didn't think about her general shape when I first played through.
My TV is old and bad, though, and tends to fuzz out at random. Not sure that was going on at the end of Portal, but I do know I completely missed it. _________________
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kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: |
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helicopterp wrote: | dhex, i spent most of my time thinking about the more obvious piecewise deconstruction of her mechanical psyche when you kill her. the shape of her body was more a focal point for my aiming than my anthropomorphizing. |
One thing is GLaDOS' personality changes don't seem to really match to what you dumped in the incinerator. The first one maybe lets her do the neurotoxin and rockets, but the curiosity one doesn't have an evident effect in what she says, the cake module doesn't seem to make her less interested in cake, and the aggressive id one doesn't make her suddenly calm down. It seems to me like they could have had more fun with the player doing this kind of localized brain surgery, even if the sequence was always the same. _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: |
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dhex wrote: |
on that video, from some angles, sure it looks like an inverted s-curve. from others it looks like a series of tubes and loops, or some kinda teeth whitener from the future. |
It's totally got a head, a torso, a pelvis, and arms that protrude from the torso and are jointed in the middle :(
from every angle :(
Does anyone have portal or the orange box on PC? I think it would be really good to see some shots of GlaDOS from the model editor, so we can have a proper look.
WHY AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO IS INTERESTED IN THIS |
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: |
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you're just interested the loudest _________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: |
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yeah, I know, sorry
I'm asking some Garry's Mod kids if they can take some screenshots for me.
dhex wrote: |
harvey: somehow combining the image the guy used to make his painting thing - i.e. what he used to show this connection in the first place - with the image he was using as his model is a less than convincing argument.
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I was just trying to refute your wife's verdict that one picture looked nothing like the other one, when it obviously fits it like a glove, JEEZ
Last edited by Harveyjames on Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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minkee .
Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 4
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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I thought if anyone would have analysed her to death it would be a cosplayer, but I can only find one... I'd link you but you don't want to hear it ;x And if you've already heard it you don't want to hear it again.
Suffice to say, I don't think she went with what we've been looking at. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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KILL IT WITH ROCKETS |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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the cosplay is a lie.
Quote: | I was just trying to refute your wife's verdict that one picture looked nothing like the other one, when it obviously fits it like a glove, JEEZ |
of course they look like each other; that's clearly not what she meant.
durrrrr! (cue motorboat sound) _________________
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Guys, ya'll had better just call me Matlock Harvey from now on.
Ok, get ready for this. Remember what they said in the developer's commentary?
"[we planned it to look like] Botticelli’s Venus hanging upside down, but we decided to go with something else and use some feminine lines within the structure.”
READY?
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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nice.
totally fruitless but, still...nice. _________________
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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The fruit is that we now know the developers did indeed end up incorporating Bottichelli's Venus into the design of GlaDOS, however subtly.
-the incline of the head is the same, you can see as much on the rear view
-the angle of her right forearm is the same.
-the proportions are the same.
-the angle of her left back-arm is the same, and can be seen to be bent at the elbow.
-the general line of the body flows in the same way.
-I also notice that the TV screens occupy the same space as the seashell does in the painting! It starts at her 'feet' and reaches up/down to her knee.
If that's not interesting to you that's fine, but it's interesting to me and apparently a lot of other people. It's an extra layer of symbolism that might inform any future analysis of that part of the game. What's fruitless about that?
Last edited by Harveyjames on Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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I dig it.
It's interesting, then, the developer's quote, since some of the "bondage" hypothesis depends on them having put the Venus thing aside, as he indicates... but I guess the idea of a hybrid is possible.
Looking carefully at the 2nd video I posted... do people agree it looks like the arm is working to free the body? At some point right after that, it looks like the structure collapses rag-doll fashion, but up 'til then I'd say there's some deliberation to the movement... the tube could be just breaking loose from overpressure or whatever, but I got the strong impression that the arm is responsible for breaking free a bit even as the figure stands from her odd crouched position.
Still, no matter what the details, I don't think there's any way to be in the "just a bunch of abstract tubes and spheres" camp. _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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It definitely looks like her arm comes free when she is destroyed/freed.
You know this bondage thing might be a blind alley. I think the most important thing that guy pointed out was that Glados was a humanoid form. You could just as easily say she's in a foetal position. Babies gestate upside down, right?
You know how screenwriters love their rebirth metaphors to close movies / symbolize a character's redemption. |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | The fruit is that we now know the developers did indeed end up incorporating Bottichelli's Venus into the design of GlaDOS, however subtly. |
much like electronic voice phenomena is proof of the existence of ghosts.
yes yes i know i know. _________________
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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stop trolling, dhex. They said the painting was originally a reference point and from the front the model does very strongly resemble that painting. |
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minkee .
Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 4
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking as an illustrator, you can see that inspiration was definately drawn from Botticelli's Venus image, especially as they mention it the commentary.
This doesn't really mean anything for sure, though, other than they wanted her to have classical womanly curves. Or at least hint at them. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Here's what I just posted in the SB forums:
"Well, Venus is the goddess of love. I figured it was probably something as simple as that this is a twisted love story, and they wanted GlaDOS' design to be emblematic of that. She's an inverted Venus."
I also just asked Yahoo Answers the following:
Quote: | What does the Venus' pose symbolize in Bottichelli's Birth of Venus?
She has one hand over her breast and one over her nether-regions. I have seen the same pose in other depictions of the deity. |
But the answer sort of came to me as soon as I'd typed the words 'breast' and 'nether-regions', it's pretty self-explanatory. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, spitfire who made the original bondage post sez:
Quote: | DUDE. That is AMAZING.
If you don’t mind I’m going to update the article with that .jpg and link you.
It’ll just have to wait ’till later today. |
Shall I tell him to link to The Gamer's Quarter forums? If not, I'll just tell him to link to my blog.
Man, drawing parrellels is easy! Here's the Rokeby Venus. Left to right: Chell, Portal, GlaDOS.
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fish .
Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Posts: 113 Location: montreal
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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x-ray specs. _________________ you cant spell selfish without fish |
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Redeye .
Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 986 Location: filth
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Waitaminute...
I haven't played Portal [yet], but I have played Meat Puppet.
Has anybody here played, or tried to play, Meat Puppet?
Could be a total coincidence, but I'm picking up some vague whiffs.
Very vague.
nah
Probably nothing. _________________ I felt sheer anarchic joy when I ran over my first pedestrian. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Huh, turns out Venus/Aphrodite was born when Cyprus cut off Uranus' genitals and threw them behind him into the sea. She grew out of the white foam that arose from it. Who knew! |
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Redeye .
Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 986 Location: filth
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Harveyjames wrote: | Huh, turns out Venus/Aphrodite was born when Cyprus cut off Uranus' genitals and threw them behind him into the sea. She grew out of the white foam that arose from it. Who knew! |
yep, and giving blowjobs makes babies grow from your head
those wacky greeks _________________ I felt sheer anarchic joy when I ran over my first pedestrian. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Redeye wrote: |
yep, and giving blowjobs makes babies grow from your head |
That sound you hear is Cycle brushing his teeth in a blind panic! |
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