The Gamer's Quarter

[Shapermc]

[SuperWes]

Matt's real problem with the game seems to be that there's an inconsistency between the story that Jaffe wants to tell and the character he wants to portray. Kratos is the generic action movie, cares for nobody, anti-hero that's out to avenge his wife's death - yet somehow has no problem doing morally apprehensive things in order to do so. Matt doesn't like the fact that he has no control over whether or not Kratos does evil things, and he feels that by virtue of the game being interactive he should be given the freedom to decide what Kratos' actions will be.

There's no argument against him since he obviously genuinely feels that way, it's just that it doesn't bother most people as much as it bothers him. In fact, these are the reasons Jaffe is a B-Level game designer. His game isn't perfect, his narrative has some holes, and the character he wants to create is pretty much directly at odds against the story that wants to be told. In the end though the game is fun. Taken individually Kratos is a good anti-hero and the way the game tells its story is much more interesting than the story itself - they just don't always gel together 100%. If you can appreciate these things you'll take something worthwhile away from the game.

-Wes
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[Shapermc]

[Mister Toups]

[SuperWes]

[Shapermc]

[dongle]

I'm with shaper on this one. Kratos' name is mispronounced in the game and it's an early indication of the lack of respect that Jaffe had for the history and body of art that "inspired' him. Jaffe wrote a story on his own and slapped an ancient Greek theme on later with no respect for the sources.

Maybe I'd forgive the styling if the gameplay were great but it's mash mash mash (on hard it's mash mash dodge mash). An example of production making the game for certain people.

[SuperWes]

[Shapermc]

But how is Mario morally offensive in the slightest? Also, the story in Mario is far more subdued and the narrative is more highly discussed. GoW put's an emphasis on story over narrative which is the main mistake.





Aside from the stereotyping
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

[SuperWes]

Mario is not a good game because of either the story or the narrative or any of that shit. The princess might as well be a dead wife, might as well be a bag of crap. So that's story, fine. Let's talk about narrative: there are only so many ways you can say, "Mario jumped from this to that" before the narrative dies down. Miyamoto's games are good simply because they're fun to play and have great pacing. Same with GoW. That some of the other elements aren't up to snuff is fine when you can easily accept what they are doing well.

-Wes
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[kirkjerk]

[Nana Komatsu]

[boojiboy7]

Given thatI am not a game designer or anything, I would love to write a story about the mario games being the constructed dreams of a man who is lusting after his dead wife. Ooo, even more fun, make it James from SH2. Yeah boy!

Anyhow, I am with Shaper on this argument. Nearly every piece I read about GoW talked about how much it loved Greek mythology, yet it clearly had no respect for it at all. As a stroy, then, it really wants us to have sympathy for Kratos (the whole "oh my wife and kid died, I have angst") except that he did it, and he really doesn't even want them back, he just wants to forget about it. It is like he is on a quest for redemption, ut his definition of redemption is amnesia, and he goes about it by killing everything he can, just because he can (completely ignoring that htis was the course of action that led to his family dying in the first place).

Oh, and I really really hated the gameplay on top of that. Mash Mash dodge Mash, here, climb these polls with our poorly designed climbing mechanic, don't touch the sides of the blades (those are the parts that really hurt, kids), and whatver you do, don't ever actually get to fight a boss. I mean, come on, don't you want to play a mario party mini-game instead of actually getting to use your fighting ability on a boss? Yeah, apparently the designers of GoW thought so.

I did like some Twisted Metal, though, so I give Jaffe that.

[dongle]

[SuperWes]

I think the fact that we're even having this discussion shows that God of War did something right. Most games don't have moral implications to consider - most don't have stories that get deep enough for anyone to bitch about they butcher mythology. It's an achievement that these are the things we're complaining about rather than a sticky square button, lack of HD support, and automated menu selections. These things are ambitious, probably beyond Jaffe's grasp, but it's respectable that he's willing to try.

There's a scene where you've got to offer a sacrifice to the gods to get a door open. This scene requires you to push a guy in a cage over to a burning pit in order to make that sacrifice. This could have easily been a block that your character is pushing to a switch - in fact in Zelda this scene actually is a block that you push over a switch - but God of War takes this a step further by making the block and switch into a moral dilemma for the player. By taking this step, the game is going further than most, asking questions that most games aren't willing to ask. Whether you agree or not with how the game requires you to answer those questions, you've got to at least respect it for being willing to ask them.

The fact that everyone's pumped about the possibility of adding dead wives to old games, jokingly or not, implies that God of War did something right.

-Wes
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[Dracko]

I keep hearing about that scene, and all I remember is frat boys saying how "awesome" it was and how big a "faggot" the sacrifice was for crying.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[Shapermc]

Wes, I actually think that is one of the more fitting things in the story. The gods told him he had to do that.

Don't go around giving people kudos for accidentally pissing people off when all he was trying to do was "something cool."
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

[SuperWes]

[Nana Komatsu]

[dongle]

[SuperWes]

[dongle]

[Shapermc]

[Ketch]

For me the objection is that God of War was the reviewer's game of the year, and so held up as a great example of the medium. But, it seems to juvenile in many respects. (Gratuitous sex/ tits and violence.)

[Winged Assassins (1984)]

Which is probably why it was so popular.
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[Nana Komatsu]

[Winged Assassins (1984)]

So, does not liking the tits in GoW make me a faggot?

How about when every time I see the character design I immediately get the image of a big, sweaty gland?
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[Shapermc]

[SuperWes]

[dongle]

Dude, Devil May Cry 3 was also 2005. It's that game that Joe and I keep telling you is the proper re-working of the brawler. =P

[SuperWes]

[FortNinety]

The bulletpoints that Toups gave got me all excited, but in the end, the vid was simply "eh". Still, I like Jaffe, don't know why. Seems like a cool dude, and I guess I can understand where the guy comes from. In the end, I don't think he's nearly brilliant as everyone says he is, but he knows it, and plays it off rather well.

Also, the interviewer was quite poor, and way too intent on getting Jaffe to talk shit about the competition. He could have just worded things a bit differently and come off much better. The vid, more than anything, really shows how piss poor the news side of things often is.

And yeah... Sony PR people can be pretty damn annoying sometimes.

[Dracko]

[antitype]

[Joe]

[SuperWes]

[Joe]