The Gamer's Quarter

[dessgeega]

[Harveyjames]

i cant read the cave of ordeals spoiler cos im posting from a wii itt

[purplechair]

[purplechair]

And the bosses. The bosses feel like silly fairground attractions, rather than epic battles. I just did the dungeon seven boss and they didn't come close to hitting me at all - I mean, I didn't even need to raise my shield or anything. It was all so painfully obvious and scripted and holding itself back just to make the fight more cinematic, that I just flew straight through and aced it first time.

And it's not like they couldn't make a good fight if they wanted to - the sub-boss from dungeon 6 was a brilliant fight. For the first time in most of the game, I felt like I was fighting a proper duel, against an opponent who stood a chance. I had to shift around and fight him, you know, dynamically and stuff, like I was playing Dead or Alive or something, and try and spot the openings he was creating and things. It was good! I got so into it that I inadvertantly punched a nearby wall with my nunchuck hand, while trying to do a helm splitter.

But then there was the big boss, which was another gimmicky battle with hardly any threat. It's like, the bosses have one big weakness, which is exploited using the dungeon item, and once you figure that out then it's easy. And what, you're supposed to spend a few minutes just defending and observing and figuring it out? It rarely takes more than 12 seconds or so to figure out what you have to do, and you generally just can't damage them at all, any other way. I know that the last couple of games have done the same thing, but that doesn't make it right. And the fights are much more set-piecey in this one... like you go into the boss chamber and have to play a little minigame that (gameplay-wise) has nothing at all to do with the rest of the game. God, it irritates me. IT IRRITATES ME A LOT!

[purplechair]

Oh, and Merry Christmas everyone!

[dessgeega]

[grumbel]

[jdoe]

The problem is the game feels bound to follow the same "rules" the previous Zeldas followed. The game has to be split into two arbitrary halves, with the first focusing on collecting magic artifacts in forest-fire-water dungeons and the second collecting an even greater artifact across the world. There's no reason for this.

Even worse, I felt that the designers knew that those episodic sections in the first half of the game were the best part. Interludes like the chase scene or Wolf Link returning to Hyrule Castle were put together too well and with too much care for it to be an accident. However, all that attention to music, atmosphere, etc. falls apart in the formulaic sections. The game believes for some reason that it has to pay lip service to the previous games. (Probably in fear that gamers won't like a different Zelda - basically repeating Majora's Mask)

I didn't mind that the bosses were fairly easy and formulaic. I can't think of a Zelda game that hasn't had that issue since Link to the Past. A lot of the problem is more our own fault: we understand the game's logic and know immediately how a Zelda boss works. My only complaint is some of the bosses were just too silly. The desert boss in particular was fun, but it felt less like a boss and more like a minigame. This is the only aspect where I feel Ocarina triumphs over Twilight Princess. The only boss I really liked (so far, I'm at the 6th dungeon) was that water eel.

[purplechair]

The sub-bosses were all great, though.

Well, most of them. The one in the desert was bloody brilliant (in terms of how you start the fight, and that).

It just... it's like they're all determined to make as traditional a Zelda game as possible, after the backlash over Wind Waker. And they've made this massive, generic Zelda game, but with excellent new things peeping through the cracks.

[jdoe]

With the exception of the forest and water temple, all of the sub-bosses were better than their respective bosses. I loved the Snowpeak sub-boss.

They did make this huge, generic Zelda game...but it works a lot better than anyone would have predicted. The game is a homage to Ocarina (the most generic Zelda), but improves everything. I'm more disappointed in the fact that the game had the more than the potential for being an absolutely incredible game, but it's ties to the rest of the series holds it back. It's still a great game, but it needed to take a few more chances.

Is there any way to call Epona without those whistle things? I hate warping, so I always want to travel by horse, but there's only like 3 of those whistles in the entire overworld (2 of which are in Kakariko).

[dessgeega]

[Nana Komatsu]

You guys aren't making me look forward to playing the rest of this game ;_;

The water temple boss was a nice Shadow of the Colossus reference until they decided to throw subtlety out the window then jump on it's back, and stab it in it's weak spot a few times with a sword.

[purplechair]

I doubt I'll ever use that horse whistle thing of my own free will. When I want to get somewhere quickly, I just, uh, ++talk to midna++ and run there. Plus, you know, I've got about twenty billion warp points all over the place. Poor Epona... I got so used to living without her (for no real reason other than to keep me locked behind those gates) that I just don't care any more.

I much preferred the water temple sub-boss. Aside from the fact that it didn't involve inventing a new method of attack (you can't swing your sword while ++doing that++ normally, can you?), it had SECRET WEAK POINTS and stuff that you didn't NEED to know about, which made me feel like a pro adventurer when I uncovered them. I like stuff like that.

[Cycle]

Hey guys, I was enjoying it until I got up to the lost woods which annoyed the hell out of me and I didn't play for about two days, then I played some more and got to the desert and haven't felt the need to pick it up again since. Mainly due to lack of time, but I also don't feel all that motivated. I guess the game suddenly got less interesting around now? I hope it picks up when I finally start playing again.
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[Ketch]

[david]

[jdoe]

[purplechair]

I see the sixth dungeon as a kind of "homage" to the ice palace in Link to the Past. The original snes version, not the wimpy one they put in the GBA remake. I'd be surprised if the production team considered this, however.

[jdoe]

Once you get the whistle, the game falls apart again. The owl fetch quest was a complete waste of time. Besides padding the game time, I don't see why that was necessary. Stupid.

The sky dungeon seemed promising, but it was way too convoluted. It took me forever to find the one treasure chest with the boss key, since there are over 30 chests, 29 of which have a red fucking rupee. After I got the boss key I had to leave the game for a bit. When I turned it back on, I realized I would have to go through the entire dungeon again. Why does this game send you back to the BEGINNING of the level, no matter where you save? This is an old game mechanic that shouldn't exist in 2006. Is it so hard to have a checkpoint? I am not eager to repeat the frustrating 30 minute maze anytime soon.

[purplechair]

[purplechair]

(So that we're clear, I always insist on pronouncing "homage" as if it rhymed with "fromage". This is why I like to say it when I'm being flippant.)

[jdoe]

[grumbel]

[Slonie]

[Slonie]

I didn't think the Owl thing was stupid! Mainly because throughout the game, I had been wondering all the while what those statues were about (and trying to remember where they were). When I finally got the Dominion Rod it all made sense. Plus each statue had an extra objective of getting to a treasure chest, which I enjoyed. I just wished I hadn't spent any time trying to get to them prior to being able to activate the statues.
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-Slonie

[Ketch]

[jdoe]

[dessgeega]

the statue quest is definitely the most indefensible part of the game.
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[helicopterp]

A petty defense of it:

While the idea that the statues were scattered around and that I had to stand where they were to fill in missing letters to form a missing magical word in a book was absolutely brainless, I really liked (watching my cousin as he was) moving the statues around and working with the puzzles for the chests. And it's the owl statues that got us to the Cave of Ordeals, very much by accident. I guess I didn't feel that it was completely worthless.
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Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one.

[player 2]

I am in the third dungeon and I can't get myself to keep playing.

Tho I do this with all adventurey type games (any Zelda, Metroid, etc), it is irking me more here because Zelda is really good
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Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

[Pijaibros]

[Harveyjames]

There are secret attacks and side quests you can unlock through playing the four swords multiplayer game (which is excellent by the way).

[purplechair]

Mm. It's the sliding block thing I'm referring to. The snes ice palace had you pushing a block down through the various floors, to activate a switch at the bottom - much like the main puzzle in Twilight Princess' 6th dungeon.

But it was hard, and they changed it in the remake to make it easier.

[wourme]

I like this game so far, but it kind of feels too familiar. It's probably been said earlier in this thread (I haven't read it to avoid spoilers), but there sure are a lot of elements taken from other games, even aside from the countless elements carried over from past Zeldas. The Shadow of the Colossus parts are pretty blatant (especially a certain boss I just beat). Others are more subtle and I wonder whether they were intentional (such as some very Silent Hill-sounding music). And I wonder which came first, the wolf in Okami or the wolf in Zelda.

I had read complaints about dated graphics in this game, but that's never really a problem for me. I do find the art direction kind of garish and sloppy in places, though. it kind of clashes with the parts that really look nice.

[Slonie]

[Harveyjames]

Motion thread title change to 'Twilight Princess kind of sucks for a little while, and then it starts to suck again after that'.

[Isfet]

similar to player2, i'm at the third dungeon now (about 11 hours so far) and i have absolutely no desire to work my way through it. i know supposedly the game gets much better right after this point but i don't know if that will be true for me. i kind of get the feeling that Zelda games may not really have what i'm looking for anymore.

i'm sure this is sort of a typical or expected response, but Shadow of the Collosus may have killed Zelda for me. i'll give it a few more shots, though.

[Scratchmonkey]

So, uh, I haven't really read this thread at all, so apologies if this has already been answered:

Has anybody gotten to play both the Wii and Gamecube versions and come away with a clear preference for one or the other? I ask because I would like to play the game and since it's still pretty tough getting a Wii, I'm tempted by the GC version.

[Cycle]

that's like the third time someone has asked >:O RTFT!!!
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[Scratchmonkey]

I didn't want to read the thread for fear of SPOILARZ. Still won't. I can see them lurking. So asking for a summary would be too much? Maybe I should start another thread.

[Cycle]

hang on, i'll find where it is and edit it in here...

[Scratchmonkey]

Huzzah!

Much thanks.

[Harveyjames]

(Moved this to the TP Spoilers thread.)

[david]

[Ketch]

[grumbel]

[Harveyjames]

[david]

So what's next, fellas??
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[purplechair]

[helicopterp]