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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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SuperWes wrote: | So David, let's talk spoilerville! |
dessgeega wrote: | you all know we have a spoiler thread right. |
helicopterp wrote: | Once you're inside, all you do is fight enemies in rotundas. The door for each opens up once you kill all the enemies in a particular room. So far, my cousin and I have been down ab out twenty floors, and there are more to come. The enemies get progressively harder as you "delve deeper" |
hot. i have my game saved just before the final battle, though, and i'm not sure i want to call link away from destiny to go spar with enemies in the desert. it sounds pretty nifty though. _________________
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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i cant read the cave of ordeals spoiler cos im posting from a wii itt |
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purplechair .
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants
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Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Ketch wrote: | purplechair wrote: |
Another idea has just occurred. In Twilight Princess, Link is obviously courageous, and Ganon is obviously powerful, and... perhaps Zelda is just being wise (but neither courageous nor powerful) when she surrenders Hyrule to Zant, at the start of the game? Perhaps all three goddesses are morally neutral, and their marks are just given to whomever should best embody their patroned quality?
. |
Well, it isn't good to have rulers with power (but not wisdom). Sometimes wisdom is knowing not to use the power. |
So what? Flip it round... no matter how wise Zelda is, she can't protect her people. Doesn't that make her a pretty shitty choice for a ruler too? Or Link... so what if he's courageous? He's still stupid and weak. He's regularly played and/or casually tossed to one side by the other major characters until he eventaully blunders through to the final showdown, which he can usually only win when other characters are lending him their power.
I think basically, the lesson to be learned here is that all three characters have their flaws, and the idea that Ganondorf is "undesirable" while Link and Zelda are "desirable" is blinkered! Ganondorf occasionally subjugating Hyrule is just like checks and balances.
Also, this: Whoever said this game got better after dungeon four is a goddam liar. |
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purplechair .
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants
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Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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And the bosses. The bosses feel like silly fairground attractions, rather than epic battles. I just did the dungeon seven boss and they didn't come close to hitting me at all - I mean, I didn't even need to raise my shield or anything. It was all so painfully obvious and scripted and holding itself back just to make the fight more cinematic, that I just flew straight through and aced it first time.
And it's not like they couldn't make a good fight if they wanted to - the sub-boss from dungeon 6 was a brilliant fight. For the first time in most of the game, I felt like I was fighting a proper duel, against an opponent who stood a chance. I had to shift around and fight him, you know, dynamically and stuff, like I was playing Dead or Alive or something, and try and spot the openings he was creating and things. It was good! I got so into it that I inadvertantly punched a nearby wall with my nunchuck hand, while trying to do a helm splitter.
But then there was the big boss, which was another gimmicky battle with hardly any threat. It's like, the bosses have one big weakness, which is exploited using the dungeon item, and once you figure that out then it's easy. And what, you're supposed to spend a few minutes just defending and observing and figuring it out? It rarely takes more than 12 seconds or so to figure out what you have to do, and you generally just can't damage them at all, any other way. I know that the last couple of games have done the same thing, but that doesn't make it right. And the fights are much more set-piecey in this one... like you go into the boss chamber and have to play a little minigame that (gameplay-wise) has nothing at all to do with the rest of the game. God, it irritates me. IT IRRITATES ME A LOT! |
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purplechair .
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants
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Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, and Merry Christmas everyone! |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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purplechair wrote: | And the bosses. The bosses feel like silly fairground attractions, rather than epic battles. I just did the dungeon seven boss and they didn't come close to hitting me at all - I mean, I didn't even need to raise my shield or anything. It was all so painfully obvious and scripted and holding itself back just to make the fight more cinematic, that I just flew straight through and aced it first time. |
thank you. matt and i were arguing about this the other day. i'm glad i'm not the only one who found it stupidly formulaic and easy. _________________
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grumbel .
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 27
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Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:12 am Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | i'm glad i'm not the only one who found it stupidly formulaic and easy. |
I would go a step further and say the whole game is far to formulaic, not just the boss battles. While I like that the dungeons look this time around a lot more then actual architecture and much less then just like a series of rooms, like in previous Zeldas, most of the rest of the game still follows very traditional formula and often that can annoy a lot, since it does nothing but holding the game back.
One scene where it got very obvious was after "covered wagon"-scene where one went to the grave of the dead Zora queen to get the swimsuit. The music was nice, the atmosphere and emotion there and finally I started to enjoy the game, but then all of a sudden the swimsuit is revealed and you got that decade old "tadadada, you found and item" jingle combined with Links retard looking grin-face. All the build up emotion and excitement went down the drain. It was just totally out of place and a really unwelcome reminder that this isn't an epic story, but just yet-another-annoying-Zelda game.
I'm now 17 hours into the game, in the desert temple, and beside that "covered wagon" scene, or more specifically that stuff that followed shortly before it, I haven't really found much to like about this game. It sure is another Zelda game, but it could be so much better if they wouldn't try so hard to follow conventioned that were established at a point in time when 3D graphic was a thing of sci-fi stories and not what you see every day on your gaming console. Zelda:TP has a few glimpses of true greatness, but those are often so far away from each other that it hard to actually enjoy the game. |
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jdoe .
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11
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Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:08 am Post subject: |
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The problem is the game feels bound to follow the same "rules" the previous Zeldas followed. The game has to be split into two arbitrary halves, with the first focusing on collecting magic artifacts in forest-fire-water dungeons and the second collecting an even greater artifact across the world. There's no reason for this.
Even worse, I felt that the designers knew that those episodic sections in the first half of the game were the best part. Interludes like the chase scene or Wolf Link returning to Hyrule Castle were put together too well and with too much care for it to be an accident. However, all that attention to music, atmosphere, etc. falls apart in the formulaic sections. The game believes for some reason that it has to pay lip service to the previous games. (Probably in fear that gamers won't like a different Zelda - basically repeating Majora's Mask)
I didn't mind that the bosses were fairly easy and formulaic. I can't think of a Zelda game that hasn't had that issue since Link to the Past. A lot of the problem is more our own fault: we understand the game's logic and know immediately how a Zelda boss works. My only complaint is some of the bosses were just too silly. The desert boss in particular was fun, but it felt less like a boss and more like a minigame. This is the only aspect where I feel Ocarina triumphs over Twilight Princess. The only boss I really liked (so far, I'm at the 6th dungeon) was that water eel. |
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purplechair .
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants
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Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: |
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The sub-bosses were all great, though.
Well, most of them. The one in the desert was bloody brilliant (in terms of how you start the fight, and that).
It just... it's like they're all determined to make as traditional a Zelda game as possible, after the backlash over Wind Waker. And they've made this massive, generic Zelda game, but with excellent new things peeping through the cracks. |
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jdoe .
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11
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Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:44 am Post subject: |
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With the exception of the forest and water temple, all of the sub-bosses were better than their respective bosses. I loved the Snowpeak sub-boss.
They did make this huge, generic Zelda game...but it works a lot better than anyone would have predicted. The game is a homage to Ocarina (the most generic Zelda), but improves everything. I'm more disappointed in the fact that the game had the more than the potential for being an absolutely incredible game, but it's ties to the rest of the series holds it back. It's still a great game, but it needed to take a few more chances.
Is there any way to call Epona without those whistle things? I hate warping, so I always want to travel by horse, but there's only like 3 of those whistles in the entire overworld (2 of which are in Kakariko). |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: |
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jdoe wrote: | Is there any way to call Epona without those whistle things? I hate warping, so I always want to travel by horse, but there's only like 3 of those whistles in the entire overworld (2 of which are in Kakariko). |
yes.
you don't get it until late in the game, though. and you have to run around a lot to get it, just to impress upon you how useful it is when you actually get it. it's not that useful after that point, though. how about that!
the snowpeak sub-boss would have been really good if they'd just gotten the execution right. but yeah, the sub-bosses are great because you actually get to use your sword skills on them - they're not designed around items like the bosses are.
stage 7's sub-boss is the best, even more so in that it's basically a preview of the final battle. which was the boss fight i'd been waiting for all game. _________________
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Nana Komatsu weak sauce
Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293
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Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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You guys aren't making me look forward to playing the rest of this game ;_;
The water temple boss was a nice Shadow of the Colossus reference until they decided to throw subtlety out the window then jump on it's back, and stab it in it's weak spot a few times with a sword. |
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purplechair .
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:50 am Post subject: |
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I doubt I'll ever use that horse whistle thing of my own free will. When I want to get somewhere quickly, I just, uh, ++talk to midna++ and run there. Plus, you know, I've got about twenty billion warp points all over the place. Poor Epona... I got so used to living without her (for no real reason other than to keep me locked behind those gates) that I just don't care any more.
I much preferred the water temple sub-boss. Aside from the fact that it didn't involve inventing a new method of attack (you can't swing your sword while ++doing that++ normally, can you?), it had SECRET WEAK POINTS and stuff that you didn't NEED to know about, which made me feel like a pro adventurer when I uncovered them. I like stuff like that. |
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Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Hey guys, I was enjoying it until I got up to the lost woods which annoyed the hell out of me and I didn't play for about two days, then I played some more and got to the desert and haven't felt the need to pick it up again since. Mainly due to lack of time, but I also don't feel all that motivated. I guess the game suddenly got less interesting around now? I hope it picks up when I finally start playing again. _________________
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Ketch .
Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Cycle wrote: | Mainly due to lack of time, . |
That is why I enjoy games like Prince of Persia, SOS: Final Escape and Tomb Raider Legend more, okay there is less "room for exploration" outside of the main-plot but you don't HAVE to explore. And playing the game feels like exploring. I no longer feel the need to talk to two dozen villagers and find the Washing up tub of Harmony before I can enter the Deku-sprout temple.
These sort of games also tend to have more visually interesting environments than Zelda.
Basically I'm in it for the game environments and the puzzle-solving. (Assassin's Creed also sounds like a game to watch, I just found out that it is also going to be an X-Box 360 game). |
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david .
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 170 Location: b, md
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: |
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Cycle wrote: | Hey guys, I was enjoying it until I got up to the lost woods which annoyed the hell out of me and I didn't play for about two days, then I played some more and got to the desert and haven't felt the need to pick it up again since. Mainly due to lack of time, but I also don't feel all that motivated. I guess the game suddenly got less interesting around now? I hope it picks up when I finally start playing again. |
Well, it definitely changes a bit after the temple you're on. It gets a bit less rigid, a bit more open-ended. You can go where you please, there's more opportunity to seek out minigames and sidequests. Also, the next dungeon is one you simply must play. _________________
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jdoe .
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | jdoe wrote: | Is there any way to call Epona without those whistle things? I hate warping, so I always want to travel by horse, but there's only like 3 of those whistles in the entire overworld (2 of which are in Kakariko). |
yes.
you don't get it until late in the game, though. and you have to run around a lot to get it, just to impress upon you how useful it is when you actually get it. it's not that useful after that point, though. how about that! |
Okay, I got the whistle. You really exaggerated the process. The whole sidequest took maybe 15 minutes. And the last part was a lot of fun! Anyways, it was a nice reward, but they really should have given it earlier, though. In fact, they should have given the whistle back when you could warp everywhere, and give the warping around this point.
The 6th dungeon seemed tacked on. It wasn't as fleshed out as the last few dungeons and I don't see myself using the item in any other situation. Considering the subject of the dungeon, they could have done a lot more. |
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purplechair .
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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I see the sixth dungeon as a kind of "homage" to the ice palace in Link to the Past. The original snes version, not the wimpy one they put in the GBA remake. I'd be surprised if the production team considered this, however. |
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jdoe .
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Once you get the whistle, the game falls apart again. The owl fetch quest was a complete waste of time. Besides padding the game time, I don't see why that was necessary. Stupid.
The sky dungeon seemed promising, but it was way too convoluted. It took me forever to find the one treasure chest with the boss key, since there are over 30 chests, 29 of which have a red fucking rupee. After I got the boss key I had to leave the game for a bit. When I turned it back on, I realized I would have to go through the entire dungeon again. Why does this game send you back to the BEGINNING of the level, no matter where you save? This is an old game mechanic that shouldn't exist in 2006. Is it so hard to have a checkpoint? I am not eager to repeat the frustrating 30 minute maze anytime soon. |
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purplechair .
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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jdoe wrote: | Once you get the whistle, the game falls apart again. The owl fetch quest was a complete waste of time. Besides padding the game time, I don't see why that was necessary. Stupid. |
You could call it a homage to the triforce-shard gathering quest in Wind Waker? |
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purplechair .
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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(So that we're clear, I always insist on pronouncing "homage" as if it rhymed with "fromage". This is why I like to say it when I'm being flippant.) |
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jdoe .
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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purplechair wrote: | jdoe wrote: | Once you get the whistle, the game falls apart again. The owl fetch quest was a complete waste of time. Besides padding the game time, I don't see why that was necessary. Stupid. |
You could call it a homage to the triforce-shard gathering quest in Wind Waker? |
The owl statue quest was stupid. The Triforce-shard quest was mean. |
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grumbel .
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 27
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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jdoe wrote: | Once you get the whistle, the game falls apart again. The owl fetch quest was a complete waste of time. Besides padding the game time, I don't see why that was necessary. Stupid. |
I actually liked that section, kind of the same way as I liked the triforce fetching in Wind Waker, since it is the only point in the game where you have something main-quest related in the overworld. After spend most of the 25 hours game time till then in dungeons and only warped around on the overworld I was lucky to finally have a reason to ride Epona instead of using the warp. If one explored Hyrule before I can however see how it can get annoying.
Quote: | Why does this game send you back to the BEGINNING of the level, no matter where you save? |
I think you might be able to work around that with that chicken-character thing (not sure how it is called in the english version, german it was "Tante") that allows you to teleport out of a dungeon and back in from where you beamed out. I however never used it myself so I have no idea if that is actually what it does. But lack of proper reset points in dungeons is definitvly a problem. |
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Slonie .
Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 141
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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purplechair wrote: | I see the sixth dungeon as a kind of "homage" to the ice palace in Link to the Past. The original snes version, not the wimpy one they put in the GBA remake. I'd be surprised if the production team considered this, however. |
Shit, it was different? I just beat the GBA one out of convenience (owning the cart, as opposed to not owning the SNES game) and didn't know there were many differences. _________________ -Slonie
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Slonie .
Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 141
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't think the Owl thing was stupid! Mainly because throughout the game, I had been wondering all the while what those statues were about (and trying to remember where they were). When I finally got the Dominion Rod it all made sense. Plus each statue had an extra objective of getting to a treasure chest, which I enjoyed. I just wished I hadn't spent any time trying to get to them prior to being able to activate the statues. _________________ -Slonie
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Ketch .
Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Why does this game send you back to the BEGINNING of the level, no matter where you save? |
Yes, I mean Tomb Raider Legend has frequent checkpoints so that when you save you can carry on from the proper check-point. It wouldn't be so hard for them to implement.
Thing is, who are Nintendo really gunning for the people who have played lots of Zeldas, or the new kids on the block? Is it for people buying their first console? Anyway, this all comes down to expectations most of us have built up this picture of Zelda being the pinnacle of game-design. And most of us expect each Zelda game to magically be better than the last, simultaneously being revolutionary and traditional at the same time. And these expectations can't often be met. Some people will love each new Zelda, some won't like it, and others will like bits of it. Yet more will try to fool themselves that each new Zelda is the greatest Zelda yet, even when they aren't enjoying it. |
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jdoe .
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 11
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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Slonie wrote: | I didn't think the Owl thing was stupid! Mainly because throughout the game, I had been wondering all the while what those statues were about (and trying to remember where they were). When I finally got the Dominion Rod it all made sense. Plus each statue had an extra objective of getting to a treasure chest, which I enjoyed. |
Oh boy! 100 rupees! What will I buy?
I noticed the statues too throughout the game. It may have made more sense if you had to find them on your own as a side-quest, rather than the game marking their exact positions on the map when the time came.
Quote: | Thing is, who are Nintendo really gunning for the people who have played lots of Zeldas, or the new kids on the block? Is it for people buying their first console? Anyway, this all comes down to expectations most of us have built up this picture of Zelda being the pinnacle of game-design. And most of us expect each Zelda game to magically be better than the last, simultaneously being revolutionary and traditional at the same time. And these expectations can't often be met. Some people will love each new Zelda, some won't like it, and others will like bits of it. Yet more will try to fool themselves that each new Zelda is the greatest Zelda yet, even when they aren't enjoying it. |
So because Zelda is aimed at people who don't play videogames (which it isn't), the game is excused from having a frustrating, archaic game mechanic?
There is no excuse for it. It doesn't matter what people's expectations are. Having to repeat this dungeon has destroyed most of the momentum the game had built earlier. This is not a revolutionary piece of programming, but something that should have been in all games years ago. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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the statue quest is definitely the most indefensible part of the game. _________________
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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A petty defense of it:
While the idea that the statues were scattered around and that I had to stand where they were to fill in missing letters to form a missing magical word in a book was absolutely brainless, I really liked (watching my cousin as he was) moving the statues around and working with the puzzles for the chests. And it's the owl statues that got us to the Cave of Ordeals, very much by accident. I guess I didn't feel that it was completely worthless. _________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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player 2 .
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:03 am Post subject: |
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I am in the third dungeon and I can't get myself to keep playing.
Tho I do this with all adventurey type games (any Zelda, Metroid, etc), it is irking me more here because Zelda is really good _________________ Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653
"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp |
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Pijaibros .
Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Posts: 342 Location: Mistake by the Lake
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Slonie wrote: | purplechair wrote: | I see the sixth dungeon as a kind of "homage" to the ice palace in Link to the Past. The original snes version, not the wimpy one they put in the GBA remake. I'd be surprised if the production team considered this, however. |
Shit, it was different? I just beat the GBA one out of convenience (owning the cart, as opposed to not owning the SNES game) and didn't know there were many differences. |
There's not that many. The big change was how they made the Ice Dungeon way easier than the SNES one. In which you had to push a block through the floor to the switch below.
You had a choice of 4 blocks and choosing the wrong one meant spending 5 minutes crawling back up to that room to choose another block. Me, being lazy, would always got that cane that made magic blocks to avoid that. I liked how LttP let me do things slightly out of order.
Also they changed a bunch of the location names and Link has a voice in the GBA version. I didn't really notice anything more than that. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:52 am Post subject: |
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There are secret attacks and side quests you can unlock through playing the four swords multiplayer game (which is excellent by the way). |
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purplechair .
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:47 am Post subject: |
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Mm. It's the sliding block thing I'm referring to. The snes ice palace had you pushing a block down through the various floors, to activate a switch at the bottom - much like the main puzzle in Twilight Princess' 6th dungeon.
But it was hard, and they changed it in the remake to make it easier. |
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wourme .
Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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I like this game so far, but it kind of feels too familiar. It's probably been said earlier in this thread (I haven't read it to avoid spoilers), but there sure are a lot of elements taken from other games, even aside from the countless elements carried over from past Zeldas. The Shadow of the Colossus parts are pretty blatant (especially a certain boss I just beat). Others are more subtle and I wonder whether they were intentional (such as some very Silent Hill-sounding music). And I wonder which came first, the wolf in Okami or the wolf in Zelda.
I had read complaints about dated graphics in this game, but that's never really a problem for me. I do find the art direction kind of garish and sloppy in places, though. it kind of clashes with the parts that really look nice.
Quote: | Quote: | Why does this game send you back to the BEGINNING of the level, no matter where you save? |
I think you might be able to work around that with that chicken-character thing (not sure how it is called in the english version, german it was "Tante") that allows you to teleport out of a dungeon and back in from where you beamed out. I however never used it myself so I have no idea if that is actually what it does. But lack of proper reset points in dungeons is definitvly a problem. |
Yes, this works. I had to quit halfway through a dungeon and I used the birds. You can jump back to exactly where you were in the dungeon after loading. |
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Slonie .
Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 141
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Harveyjames wrote: | There are secret attacks and side quests you can unlock through playing the four swords multiplayer game (which is excellent by the way). |
I knew that at least, but I'm sad because I only have a DS to play it on. Thus, no Four Swords for me. I hope someday I can get enough GBAs together to try it though.
I totally didn't know about that ice palace thing though, weird! _________________ -Slonie
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:24 am Post subject: |
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Motion thread title change to 'Twilight Princess kind of sucks for a little while, and then it starts to suck again after that'. |
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Isfet .
Joined: 27 Oct 2006 Posts: 107 Location: A New York
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: |
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similar to player2, i'm at the third dungeon now (about 11 hours so far) and i have absolutely no desire to work my way through it. i know supposedly the game gets much better right after this point but i don't know if that will be true for me. i kind of get the feeling that Zelda games may not really have what i'm looking for anymore.
i'm sure this is sort of a typical or expected response, but Shadow of the Collosus may have killed Zelda for me. i'll give it a few more shots, though. |
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Scratchmonkey .
Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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So, uh, I haven't really read this thread at all, so apologies if this has already been answered:
Has anybody gotten to play both the Wii and Gamecube versions and come away with a clear preference for one or the other? I ask because I would like to play the game and since it's still pretty tough getting a Wii, I'm tempted by the GC version. |
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Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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that's like the third time someone has asked >:O RTFT!!! _________________
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Scratchmonkey .
Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't want to read the thread for fear of SPOILARZ. Still won't. I can see them lurking. So asking for a summary would be too much? Maybe I should start another thread. |
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Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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hang on, i'll find where it is and edit it in here...
Quote: | As for Wii VS. Cube, I posted some impressions half way down page three of this thread. Having played a bit more, I'm noticing a few small details that didn't translate to the Wii. I'm not saying they make the Cube version better, but they're reminders that this was conceived as a Cube game.
Specifically, when you're on the move you can hold B and Link will hold his sword out at his side as he runs, finally making his slash when you release the button. You can do the same thing on your horse, though in that case you'll execute a spin attack. It's just a cool looking move that you can't do on the Wii because there's no "sword" button to hold. Also, on the Cube you can throw your boomerang without going into aiming mode with just a quick tap of the button (hold it for a second to aim). I could be wrong, but I don't think that's an option on the Wii. I noticed it right away because you haven't been able to throw the boomerang that way since the 2D games.
On the Wii, you get to enjoy the Wii-ness of resting your arms where you like and making menu selections with the pointer. You also get a superior aiming system and a more immersive fishing minigame. Swinging the remote to slash is not really a plus or a minus in my book, but it is an interesting break from tradition.
If you're itching to play this game but can't afford or find a Wii, don't hesitate to pick up the Cube version. It's the real thing, unabridged and awesome. The stuff that makes the Wii version cool in its own way are mainly some new mechanics that will soon become the norm in a multitude of Wii games. And if you're that into Zelda, figure on picking up TP for Wii in a couple years for cheap when you want to experience it afresh. |
_________________
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Scratchmonkey .
Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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Huzzah!
Much thanks. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
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(Moved this to the TP Spoilers thread.)
Last edited by Harveyjames on Fri Dec 29, 2006 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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david .
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 170 Location: b, md
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Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Scratchmonkey wrote: | Huzzah!
Much thanks. |
Those were my comments. I may have been wrong about the boomerang thing -- someone said you can throw it in third-person on the Wii, too, which makes sense.
If you're a little bit sick of the 3D Zelda formula, the Wii version shakes it up slightly with the new mechanics. But if you have zero reservations about signing up for a 50 hour Ocarina/WindWaker-style quest, you will love the Cube version. _________________
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Ketch .
Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420
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Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Harveyjames wrote: |
In screenwriting we have a thing called 'cutting out the shit parts', which the games industry would do well to take note of if they're serious about this whole making good games thing. |
I actually think that they aren't interested in making "great games" so much as making good games which are highly marketable and which can be sold and used a trump card. Buy a Wii it has Twiilight Princess ! Buy a PS3 it has Metal Gear 4 ! I also think that 'we' aren't the audience they are writing for they probably didn't make this game for us. Likewise, I think that perhaps we don't realise that what we are asking for is not what we are buying into. Ie. We want games which have the love and care to character, plot, dialogue of the best adventure games- but also feature lots of cool "combat". Are we asking for Shakespeare inbetween our sex scenes?
Perhaps action games 'suck' because they are based around repetitive actions? There are only so many times we can slash/shoot enemies before we get bored. Maybe what we are asking for is action games with the variety of a Zelda dungeon's puzzles, with each room containing an interesting new challenge? Or a game where each monster is a unique creature built to interact with the player and the game environment in interesting ways? . |
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grumbel .
Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 27
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Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Ketch wrote: | Perhaps action games 'suck' because they are based around repetitive actions? |
Its fine for an action game to be based around action and its also fine for a Tetris to be about falling blocks without any great story around it, a game only needs to be good at what it is trying to do. The problem are the games which try to move into story telling, but half the way through they just stop and fall back being a stupid action/puzzle/whatever game, those games don't really try to be anything specific, so they annoy both from the action/puzzle/etc point of view, as well as the storytelling one.
Quote: | Maybe what we are asking for is action games with the variety of a Zelda dungeon's puzzles, with each room containing an interesting new challenge? |
I would prefer if games moved away from having 'rooms' or any other restricted environments in the first place. One of the nice things about Zelda:TP was that, while it still had rooms, they at least didn't look like the classic Zelda dungeon rooms, instead they looked, at least in some places, like actual architecture. However, sadly that was only true about the dungeons, the overworld was a lot more annoying, since it was broken into tiny little piece. You try to go into a house -> loading screen -> you are in a separate 'room'. You can't just look out of the window of a house and see Hyrule, because it simply isn't there. I much prefer something like SotC or Gothic, since there you have one world, there is no loading screen, no separation, if you want to look out of the window, you can just do it.
Quote: | Or a game where each monster is a unique creature built to interact with the player and the game environment in interesting ways? . |
If games want to tell an interesting story one of the first things they should remove is the mass killing. Even the worst action movie doesn't feature a hero killing thousands of bad guys, video games however do, and not just sometimes, but pretty much always. Or at least a game should give a really good reason why you are killing thousands of bad guys while still surviving (i.e. mighty super-power of the hero, an army of comrades that help you, etc.). Once the mass killing is removed, it should be a lot easier to make those killings you do actually matter. Having 1000 custom created creatures alone won't help much. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Ketch wrote: |
We want games which have the love and care to character, plot, dialogue of the best adventure games- but also feature lots of cool "combat". Are we asking for Shakespeare inbetween our sex scenes?
Perhaps action games 'suck' because they are based around repetitive actions? There are only so many times we can slash/shoot enemies before we get bored. Maybe what we are asking for is action games with the variety of a Zelda dungeon's puzzles, with each room containing an interesting new challenge? Or a game where each monster is a unique creature built to interact with the player and the game environment in interesting ways? . |
I don't know about that. I'll just take each game as it comes. I think I would have found Twilight Princess enjoyable if they hadn't fucked up on all the points I mentioned (and yeah, some of the later dungeons weren't up to scratch). I don't think the core concept was the problem, clunky as it seems post SotC / Ico.
Then again, maybe the problem is that they made this game already, and it was called Ocarina of Time. Aside from control / interface refinements, everything they've added to the mix is unwelcome and seemingly added just for the sake of making it different. Everything they took away they took away just because they couldn't get away with that shit a second/third time. Maybe it's a good thing that this is 'the last Zelda of this type'. |
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david .
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 170 Location: b, md
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Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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So what's next, fellas?? _________________
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purplechair .
Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants
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Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 5:08 am Post subject: |
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grumbel wrote: | Quote: | Maybe what we are asking for is action games with the variety of a Zelda dungeon's puzzles, with each room containing an interesting new challenge? |
I would prefer if games moved away from having 'rooms' or any other restricted environments in the first place. One of the nice things about Zelda:TP was that, while it still had rooms, they at least didn't look like the classic Zelda dungeon rooms, instead they looked, at least in some places, like actual architecture. However, sadly that was only true about the dungeons, the overworld was a lot more annoying, since it was broken into tiny little piece. You try to go into a house -> loading screen -> you are in a separate 'room'. You can't just look out of the window of a house and see Hyrule, because it simply isn't there. I much prefer something like SotC or Gothic, since there you have one world, there is no loading screen, no separation, if you want to look out of the window, you can just do it. |
Stuff like this is why I'm almost ready to endure Fable again. |
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Ketch wrote: | Are we asking for Shakespeare inbetween our sex scenes? |
To completely miss the point of your post, Ketch, I'd like to point out that there are plenty of sex scenes in Shakespeare. _________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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