The Gamer's Quarter

dhex

http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2005/07/bamboozled_by_t.shtml#comments

AND TOTALLY UNRELATED:
http://home.twcny.rr.com/kotzin/harryfanpage.htm
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Lackey · . Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada

Bah, I'd already read John Davidson's blog entry on this. Its stupid, but embarassingly not surprising.
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Mr. Mechanical · Friendly Stranger Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

Yeah, Davison has already responded to it on his home turf. It's pathetic that what most people experience as "the media" is really just entertainment designed to grab ratings. I could go on about how there aren't any standards anymore but that's sort of a tired argument. Anyways, that crap like this Deustch guy's show even has room to exist is the reason I stopped watching TV. People are just filthy fucking creatures sometimes.

Lackey · . Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada

I don't know, with a little bit of cynicism its hard to get too offended because its obvious from the beginning that shows like this are a front for conflict mongering.

PS: What I mean is, I'd be more worried if someone put out a really strong but misleading argument against videogames. This however, is almost immediately dismissible.

PPS: It just occured to me that some people might find this a strong and misleading argument.
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| Little bird fighting against a bat sect game |

dhex · Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:57 pm Post subject:

well, defending woman stomping in GTA, for example, is an interesting exercise in understanding how people see things. it's depraved, mind you, but much in the same way bugs bunny disregards firearm safety and the health of daffy duck.

at the same time it's juvenille and certainly not morally wholesome..
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Mr. Mechanical · Friendly Stranger Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

Well, I don't mean to sound entirely negative it's just that the whole thing sickens me what with Jack Thompson out there telling soccer moms and Nascar dads that their children are being trained as killers and the fact that the game industry doesn't have any strong spokespersons out there to counter the claims. Not that they'd get as much attention if they did, just that it'd be nice as I feel most media fear mongering to be a personal attack on me, like they're labeling me something that I'm not because they don't know shit about what they're talking about and all they care about is getting more attention and exposure and that shit factory the "Media" is only too happy to give it to them time and time again. And what's worse is it seems most people who consider themselves gamers don't take it seriously enough until people like Thompson start getting to people in official positions and conversations about game legislation come up. Sometimes it seems like the industry itself doesn't take any of it seriously because they're all too concerned with their bottom line so they just want to hide behind free speech while they shit out whatever they think will sell next year and damn it it's all going to come to head soon just watch.

Oooooookay I'm going to lie down for a bit now. /rant

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

EA should pony up and employ a strong willed, intelligent young man who knows games and has a serious drinking problem as a spokesperson for the industry.

I'm sure there's someone at LPN that fits the bill.

dhex · Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject:

Mr. Mechanical · Friendly Stranger Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

Okay, "hide behind" is poor phrasing. I just meant that it seems like anytime something comes up the games industry is all "Free Speech! NahNah, you can't touch me!" without coming back with any sort of good counter argument. And yeah, I know there isn't any good counter argument because the original argument is mostly bullshit but Joe Public who doesn't know a videogame from a military built simulator doesn't.

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

"PARENTS." and then both sides just repeat their arguments till commercial break.

The problem is you can't hold a discussion with Thompson because he, like most politicians these days, has a single talking point which he will repeat as often as he gets a chance to open his mouth. Logic need not apply.

Lackey · . Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada

Its a good point.

I mean, first of all people on the two sides of this arguments seem to be coming from completely different worlds, there's little or no common ground to speak on.

Secondly, that's a lot of pressure. Self-righteous people are much better at handling it.
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| Little bird fighting against a bat sect game |

dhex · Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:42 pm Post subject:

thompson is no longer a poltiican. for more details, see the footnotes from my article in issue #2. i daresay it's the best encapsulation of jack thompson ever written.
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Mr. Mechanical · Friendly Stranger Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

Thompson might not be, but Hillary Clinton still is.

dhex · Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:07 pm Post subject:

well, you get what you pay for when you vote for a clinton, you know?.
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Mr. Mechanical · Friendly Stranger Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

Shit, I didn't vote for any Clinton...

Mostly because I was too young and all, but yeah.

Blazehedgehog · . Joined: 11 Mar 2005 Posts: 21 Location: Colorado

I'm a little late to the party - but I'd like to say that this isn't the first time this has happened. If I could, I'd dig up an article from when GTA III was still a new game in which this exact same scenario happened. Some journalist guy (Not sure if it was Deutsch or not, might have been) coaxed a gaming industry rep onto his show promising to "stay away from that violence thing" only to rip into the poor guy the moment footage was rolling, going so far as to play GTA III live on the air and everything. The journalist guy was predictably stunned by the whole situation, was totally unprepared, and flopped the whole thing.

The fact that the exact same thing happened a second time gives me a sinking feeling we're gonna see this trick pulled again.

Edit: Google, you are my love.
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friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

Yeah, I'm a little late too, not that that's unusual.

It's funny, but I can't help but think that the 'video games as violence topic' is, itself, just another media and political red herring that gets brought up periodically but which never gets acted upon. Just like flag burning, it's a first amendment issue that everyone trumpets every few years because it's an easy target, and because it has an easy solution: ban flag burners, ban violent games. Done. Unlike things like disease and poverty in sub-Saharan Africa and terrorist activity, which require more involved solutions. But because they have such murky first amendment grounds, nothing ultimately happens. Or maybe it's because it's all a question of attention span and the average American's lack of one. So I guess I've just argued against my original point-- that we should collectively shrug our shoulders and say 'oh well, it'll blow over".

BUT! I wish I could remember the show it was on, but I heard a story on NPR a while back about how many surveyed Americans think that the government should approve news stories before they're published. I think this is what we ultimately have to look out for-- apathy growth leading to suspension of some of our nicer freedoms-- you know, speech, press, human rights, that kind of thing-- and I think the distinction wasn't that it was all Mr. and Mrs. Joe Sixpack, but that it was younger people. It's pretty striking, but I think it points to more of a lack of understanding on their part rather than a real desire for a police state. Or (again) apathy. After all, it's much easier to have decisions made for you by the government than to make them yourself.

Ugh, maybe it's my fever talking, but I'm listing away from the topic. Dhex, I agree, people really are some dirty, disgusting motherfuckers. It's probably a good idea to look into whomever it is that is going to interview you if you're asked to appear on a news program. Unfortunately walking out sends a certain kind of negative message to the average viewer of this kind of show. Oh, couldn't take the heat, eh? I mean a person who is confident about their position on a subject stands up red faced with veins bursting and shouts down his doubters, right?

dhex · Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:16 am Post subject:

frankly this rankles people because it's about games. people weren't disturbed by mccain-feingold, either.

also, most pr folk know you don't go on a television station - any television station - without good cause, mostly because they're going to murder you if they can. 60 minutes is notorious for doing this.

another point to keep in mind - maybe there's something unappealing about a game that lets you stomp women into the ground for some people? they left kids out of it for a reason.
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TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

The thing that bothers me about videogames being picked on in the media is that it's an unfair target. There are far more book-readers, gun owners, and television readers than there are avid video gamers, and for those video games, they are often younger and not a vocal part of society. Joe Schmoe isn't going to want to hear that his TV is training his kids to be killers, especially when it keeps them out of his hair. And he isn't going to want to hear that his rifle that he keeps under his bed increases the risk of his children getting their hands on a gun exponentially. But video games! They're relatively new, strange, and must be evil. No one is going to crawl out of the woodwork to defend them--not while strong ratings are guaranteed.

Really--can you imagine a TV network showing a program blaming today's violence on TV? It's not going to happen.

The sad thing is is that video games might be making children violent, but this whole controversy was never about finding out if they are in the first place. There's sensationalism, and little else. You don't have anyone out there actively reading the results of studies on children who played violent games and following them through adulthood, and playing back the results on TV. Instead, you have game show host failures picking on the black sheep of media for ratings and bringing in people who obviously aren't charismatic enough to win over an audience that they have been trained to hate.

In other words, it's like politics.