The Gamer's Quarter

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

http://www.gamesandculture.com/

Yea... I think this will be nice and educational, at the same time a great read to make you pass the fuck out from boredom. I, so far, have not really read anything like this that is not overworded and boring, but... who knows. I look foward to seeing what it has to offer.

Honestly, this is what makes me really nervous:

dhex · Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:19 am Post subject:

APA style is pretty common for publications - it's either that or MLA, which is used by most of the rest of the liberal arts. sociologists use APA so...it seeped into the "social sciences" and then into critical theory and all that stuff. i guess it makes them feel more scientific.

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

dhex · Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:24 am Post subject:

standardized citations are helpful. i mean, it's not like we have to go back to page bottom footnotes or anything. those suck.

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

dhex · Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:42 am Post subject:

i get the option of using MLA or APA. i like MLA because it's shorter. since there's a bunch of cultural anthro folk on the review board it makes sense to go with APA.

i dunno. it might be good. the sun might also crash into the moon, we might get hit with an asteroid, or the dinosaurs may still walk amongst us.

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

I say wow, becuase the magazine (TGQ) uses page bottom footnotes, and you mention this to me now. You know I like it better that way you don't have to break the flow as bad.

dhex · Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:52 am Post subject:

oh, no, you misunderstand.

pick up any scholarly work from 1900 to 1965 or so. look at the bottom of each and every page...all citations immediately directed to the bottom, where sometimes as little as 10 lines of text for 55 lines of footnotes show up.

that's what i meant. not our piddling little footnoteology. we don't cite authors for the most part.

Giampi · . Joined: 29 Mar 2005 Posts: 17

I'm getting a real "I'm not a gamer but I'd like to pretend I am" vibe from that page. I don't know why exactly, but I just feel kind of awkward when reading it.

Mister Toups · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:54 am Post subject:

I have to admit that I get off on this kind of stuff. Still, it depends on if it is just pretentious and meaningless jargon or if there are actual ideas behind things. I've gotten pretty good at sifting one from the other in my days in academia.
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

dhex · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:15 am Post subject:

"political economy" more or less screams "intellectual bankruptcy." the marxists can't work in economics anymore, since that more or less fell apart completely, and political science isn't going to give them much traction in this climate, so they're pretty much stuck with literature and cultural studies, which have absolutely no burden of proof, even compared with the laxity of poly sci.

then again, you gotta keep the crit theory folks happy. you guys wouldn't believe some of the shit my wife reads. i can't believe how seriously people take freud in literature, myself. the weird essays on art as the lamentation of lost homosexuality and how all successful businesswomen are repressed lesbians unwilling to take that final step by castrating the mother by biting her nipple.

you know, the usual stuff. she had a professor - a phd at a catholic university in a well-respected grad program - tell her that telepathy was a well-documented fact of freudian psychotherapy. i can't believe they didn't stone her on the spot, at $820 a credit. you've got to be fucking kidding me. (same prof who assigned the above essay about successful women and their represssed lesbianism)

nICO · . Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 120 Location: WVUSA

Yeah, generally speaking Freud is ridiculous. I must admit though, I get amusement out of reading some shorter and to the point (and especially conciously humorous) articles that use Freud like Mark Simpson's "Big Tits!" essay, but I put very little serious stock in them. I was introduced to the guy in a high school psych class, and even the watered down psychology version of Freud struck me as kind of odd. Then in a film class I had to read about the Oedipus Complex and other similar shit as well as do Freudian analyses of films. It was bullshit, but I had a genuine blast trying to top each essay I wrote in ridiculousness. Even more humorously, the more crazy and tongue in cheek my papers got, the more the prof liked them.

Then I took (actually, am taking) a lit theory class and my professor just made fun of the guy while distilling some of his more acceptable ideas. My prof is cool though. We read Lawson's "The Anxious Proximities" last week and he ranted about how he writes like a 3rd grader with a thesaurus and a dictionary who overhears conversations on marxism, pyschoanalysis, etc and thinks it would make him seem smart if he mentions them. That was one of the shittiest essays I've ever read...

As far as this new journal goes...I get off on this stuff too, so I'll certainly check it out at least. My guess is that there will be one or two worth reading, neither brilliant, and the rest just people from other disciplines trying to make a name for themselves since they aren't having much success breaking their own field. Who knows though...

It really depends on how much respect the writers give videogames, and whether they just pick and choose from other people's ideas and work them into some vague thesis, or whether they approach games themselves and draw from other sources only when that could better explain their point or to give credit. I've found that's generally the difference between good and bad crit.

dhex · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:22 pm Post subject:

i can see why freud would be a starting point for literary analysis. i don't see why he's still a centerpiece.* or why talking about the text itself is such a bad thing, but hey...this ain't really my bag.

*ok, so that's a lie. i know why it's a centerpiece. until very recently, most states had absolutely no regulations regarding psychoanalysis as it's practiced in talk therapy. very few had state board requirements like other forms of mental health practices. in its most base presumptions, freudian analysis offers a simple and pat set of coherent standards from which to argue all sorts of things. much like any other field, there are plenty of flakebags, especially when you veer into the semi-spiritual, a la therapy in general.

much like regular religions, charlatans abound anywhere you find people who want to believe something. if someone desires a state of belief, well, their world is your oyster. if you're into charlatanizing, that is.

now i don't believe such things should be regulated - if it were up to me the FDA would probably cease to exist, at least in its current form - but i realize there is a deep abiding antipathy towards the sciences in the crowds in which this stuff is popular. maybe it's a hatred of math - i can sympathize - or maybe it's about being picked on as being "not really important," the usual inferiority issues (har har).

or having a clear-cut methodology. something like that. freud wasn't such a bad guy, maybe, but like many famous people, those who come after leave something to be desired.

Mister Toups · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject:

Freud's ideas are good. I just don't think anyone has done anything with them aside from stretch them to ridiculous extremes. Part of the problem is just that a lot of the stuff he said back then that was controversial is stuff that we take for granted now (the existence of subconscious and its workings, sublimation, etc). And so you can't rely on making observations on those because you don't look clever enough -- you aren't saying anything new. So it becomes a sort of pissing contest to see who can apply Freud (or Marx, or Foucault, or whomever) in the most clever (read "ridiculous") way.

It's sad. I wish they could quit with the hero worship and think for themselves a bit. Instead you get a lot of inbreeding that doesn't really get anyone anywhere.
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

Persona-sama · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:13 pm Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:37 pm Post subject:

some of freud's ideas are interesting. many are based purely on the terrible anthropology of the time, gender norms and the usual load of hoo ha. gays as immature male chimp bands, women as, well...yeah.

i like reading howard bloom's curmudgeonly vitrol and froth on the subject of the academy.

(then again, i think camille paglia is a neato person too)

Bai · . Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 24

Perhaps you could reserve your criticism after reading the journal instead of mocking its reference system and submission rules. You might even lay off its contributors who you callously dismiss as being mediocre writers who are "trying to make a name for themselves since they aren't having much success breaking their own field". If you must sling your ego around, maybe you should limit your insults to people you've actually met.

And to those people who suggest that videogames are beyond (or perhaps 'above') critical inquiry and cultural studies, that is your opinion. Not that I disagree, there's plenty of "pretentious and meaningless jargon" out there but some decent, challenging work too. Using extreme, unqualified (maybe ridiculous) applications of Freud to demonstrate the futility of academic work doesn't convince me I'm sorry! Intellectual thought, convincingly and creatively applied, can enhance and stimulate a cultural field. Look at film, for example.

There seems to be an attitude in here that you can't understand or enjoy something by analysing it to pieces so let's all just play games and have fun. On the other hand, critical inquiry into games (ludology, game studies, etc.) just might produce the intellectual backbone (and answer to those 'what is a game' questions) that the industry is searching for. Articles about race, class and sexuality might be scraping the barrel. Or they could make us think and interact differently about this past-time we call gaming. This might be a good thing, let's not be too cynical.

Mister Toups · Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:32 pm Post subject:

I don't think any of us were criticizing the journal. For my part, I strongly believe in thought out, rigorous and academic analysis of cultural works is a crucial form of dialogue with regards to any medium. That doesn't change the fact that most of it is garbage, of course.

I mean. That's what I secretly try to get at with my articles. I tend to sugar coat it a lot, because, well, I guess that's just how I write. I like to intellectualize things and I think it can be productive!
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

nICO · . Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 120 Location: WVUSA

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

Oh my god. I think that I-Ninja review is the worst thing I ever inflicted on my brain.

nICO · . Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 120 Location: WVUSA

I genuinely wanted to laugh the first time I read it, but my jaw had dropped stiff in disbelief.

Did you read the mission statement for the review? That makes it even better.

SuperWes · Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 8:28 pm Post subject:

Right, it's obvious that the guy "recently returned to console gaming." Anyone else would recognize that being forced to replay each level with no score or speed goal to compete for is just lazy design needlessly intended to extend the length of an underdeveloped game.

-Wes
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aderack · . Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: San Francisco

dessgeega · Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject:

how ERGODIC of you all.

i too enjoy close readings and maoist game reviews, but i am an academia-trained marxist after all.

i don't play games for fun. i play them out of a sense of duty.
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dhex · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:49 am Post subject:

damn, where's that maoist game review site again?

i dunno. people are free to do what they want. we're free to laugh at them. or me, rather, since i probably have more hostility towards critical theory (in all its guises, if only for its lack of word economy) than anyone else here.

what is the cultural significance of i-ninja anyway?
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Bai, I think you were just skimming things here. Honestly I think all forms of games talk is good and welcome. I don't have to like it. I also said that it will more than likely just be boring. Anyways, I really don't think that anyone specifically knocked the journal. I was mainly putting it up here to let everyone know it was going to be available. Remember, no publicity is bad publicity.

Also, Freud is an idiot, sorry. I will stand my ground on that one.

dessgeega · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:01 am Post subject:

aderack · . Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: San Francisco

Well, I mean. Analysiis is one of the major themes around here.
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dessgeega · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:20 pm Post subject:

so is phallocentrism.

BURN!!
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dhex · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject:

i've never figured out what was so bad about wangcentrism.
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SuperWes · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:08 pm Post subject:

It is at the center of our bodies. Except for maybe dessgeega, who may or may not be female/lesbian.

-Wes
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dhex · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:49 pm Post subject:

not even that, i mean...what's wrong with basing civilization on the active engine of its continuation?
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dessgeega · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:10 pm Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:14 pm Post subject:

the receptical just slows you down. active principle, baby!
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dessgeega · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:18 pm Post subject:

a human being grows in the womb for nine months.

i'd say that's pretty active.
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SuperWes · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject:

But wangs can grow and shrink by the minute. Can't beat that! Actually, you CAN beat them, also making them superior to wombs.

-Wes
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dhex · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 3:49 pm Post subject:

sorry, i got some vedic in your fruit juice. i mean active in the shivite sense.

without the invasion there is no growth. so in a sense, heraclitus was right: war is the health of the state. and in this case, intercourse is the health of the civilization. i.e. invasion.
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dessgeega · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject:

aderack · . Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: San Francisco

Actually, my penis is toward the lower half of my body.
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SuperWes · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject:

Bai · . Joined: 21 Jun 2005 Posts: 24

[quote="shapermc"]Bai, I think you were just skimming things here. Honestly I think all forms of games talk is good and welcome. I don't have to like it. I also said that it will more than likely just be boring. Anyways, I really don't think that anyone specifically knocked the journal. I was mainly putting it up here to let everyone know it was going to be available. Remember, no publicity is bad publicity.

Also, Freud is an idiot, sorry. I will stand my ground on that one.[/quote]

Yeah that's cool. Of course we don't all have to like this stuff but there *are* certain tensions between gamers, game journalists and academics which don't just arise from disagreements on theory. Rather, there are tendencies to automatically dislike or discount other camps as being useless, garbage, non-constructive etc. which I hoped to illustrate (and also challenge) through my posting.

Goodness knows, we all have the right to be cynical. But that doesn't mean we should. At some point, cynicism contradicts our (meaning all those involved in writing about games) common work. Is it really necessary, for example, to publicly ridicule the I-Ninja review posted by niCO? Maybe it's dodgy. That's what author correspondence is for. Slinging shit on the author in a public forum is rarely constructive. But it *is* good for our egos?

By the way, keep up the good efforts with the mag!

dhex · Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 9:46 pm Post subject:

i read a book by michael taussig recently. it's basically magickal marxism - he's writing in this case about colombian and peruvian worker rituals involving deals with a devil - ish character. some of it is a very good ethnograph. then he goes off into spiels about how newtonian physics and darwinism were only accepted because they support the capitalist theory of value and the creation of mass-produced objects divorced from the personal reality granted by physical creation.

i didn't really get it until i flipped it over. he's a performance studies professor at NYU.

lightbulb! and people genuinely take him seriously, no less. (i did enjoy "magic and the state" but at least that wasn't pretending to be anything other than a hardbound 300 page livejournal entry)

cultural studies is retarded. as a genre, it is plain ass retarded. and not just because it clings to a religious philosophy that murdered millions of people in a mere century, ensconced in a comfort made possible only by capitalism. not just because it is plainly wank, using hard and even soft sciences to gloss over its lack of substance. ideological masturbation eventually causes spirtiual calluses.

it's all of these things, and more. it's why as a body it both loathes and desecrates science and western philosophy because of an emphasis on precision. it's useless wank, and applying it to games seems like fun so long as someone keeps packing the gravity bong; but for zog's sake, have you seen what it's done to film?

`or to explain otherwise, read the i ninja essay out loud. to an audience, even. and tell me it's not foully murdering the language of shakespeare and violating each and every tenet put down by orwell's "politics and the english language"

http://www.resort.com/~prime8/Orwell/patee.html