The Gamer's Quarter

Lockeownzj00 · . Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 214

Haha, you misread me. I wasn't jumping for joy, but I wasn't really agitated either. I just wrote down my thoughts...a lot of them. The length of my post shouldn't really indicate that I'm pissed off, because I'm not.

purplechair · . Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants

It's like, I really liked FF9, with all its little nods to previous games and stuff, and I quite liked the plot about an arms dealer trying to stir up war, but then once you hit disc four - and there's a spoiler coming up here - they suddenly reveal that it's all the work of some alien guy who lives on a space ship and who grew the arms dealer and the main character in a pod on his ship. And I was, like, "What the fuck?" What was wrong with just carrying on the story as it was? Why do they need to start pulling loads of random sci-fi stuff out of their arses when you get near the end?

FF8 was kinda the same. Like I've said, I've never finished it, but I was quite happy with the first disc - the SeeD exam was one of my favourate things in games ever, and Edea seemed like a good enemy and stuff. And then it's like "Actually, the REAL enemy is this wizard from 1000 years ago!" or something, and it's just silly.

I guess that kind of thing worked alright in FF7, when you learn that Cloud's memories are mostly Zack's and stuff, but that's more of a rearranging of things you already knew about, rather than just dropping a load of new stuff on you in a flash. I mean, it would suck if you got to the last battle with Sephiroth and then it turned out that Sephiroth was actually a robot piloted by the ghost of Aeris' mum, who was actually the REAL driving force behind Shinra and the bio-engineer who created the Weapons and tricked everyone into believing all that lifestream bullshit.

It just feels like they're always pushing to add some more bullshit pseudoscience into the stories, for the benefit of the young teenagers who are willing to accept anything involving at least three out of God, aliens, cloning, time travel, the "earth spirit", demonic possession, secret societies and hypnosis as being deep and meaningful.

SuperWes · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 5:16 am Post subject:

friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

Lockeownzj00 · . Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 214

dhex · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 10:13 am Post subject:

fort90 showed me some vib ribbon the other day. that game is fucking sick as hell with "just one fix" playing as the soundtrack.

anyhoo...
six was good stuff.
seven was a strong start followed by "oops we forgot to finish writing that part" as others have pointed out
eight, i never got that far, cause i just lost interest and like, oh yeah, we're all raised at the same orphanage is just a bit too over the line for me
nine was a filler title.

now with ten, i'd been making jokes for a while that it seemed jrpgs were "i hate you dad" games wrapped around a love triangle (cause talking to girls is hard) and i picked up ten for like, nine dollars in a used bin. imagine my surprise/horror when i discover the game's plot is, literally, "i hate you dad CAUSE YOU'RE SATAN!" i gave up on jrpgs at that point entirely, as you can imagine.

what the fuck is up with japan?
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Zack · . Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 26

SuperWes · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 10:33 am Post subject:

Just got FFXII today! Impressions are top secret though...

Comments on the current thread I've got plenty of. We bitch and bitch about the stories of Final Fantasy games, but really what are your opinions on the whole gameplay part of Final Fantasy as compared to other JRPGs. Do you like the fact that they seem to try something new with each game to varying degrees of success? Do the random battles turn you off more or less in a FF game than in other series?

Personally, my favorite things in the FF series happen in the sub-menus. I was talking about it with Shaper over the weekend and he doesn't think this stuff counts as gameplay, but to me this is where the gameplay starts and everything else is just filler. I love managing the direction of my character's growth, keeping track of their HP, switching their classes, maximizing materia, swapping items, and moving along the sphere grid. I adore changing my text-box color at the beginning of the game (blue-aqua for life baby!) and naming my characters after friends and pets.

To me, this is the stuff that sets the Final Fantasy series apart from standard RPGs. They're always trying something new - always asking you to put at least a little thought into how you're going to evolve your characters. From what I've heard about XII's AI-routine creation sub-screens I think it could become my favorite in the series from this aspect alone.

In some way the exploration and stories are the neccessary evil that I put up with to get to these menus. I think I'm an anomoly.

-Wes
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TheRumblefish · . Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 258 Location: Florida

GSL · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:19 am Post subject:

Faithless · . Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 153

It's very hard for me to post about Final Fantasies because they are so very dear to me. I listen to people rag on them endlessly; the way the stories are described as "shallow" or "silly," how the gameplay is "archaic" or "broken," and I'm forced to ask whether I, too, am these things.

My defense requires this conceit -- Final Fantasy is a religion. Enjoying the games is like an exercise of spirituality.

On Menus and Materia Management: Think of Final Fantasy as a religious experience. And Menus, Stat-Juggling, and ATBs are the rituals of this religion. What is gained by lighting a candle and fingering a rosary? Couldn't baptism be done away with to allow a quicker, more "accurate" access to heaven? These rituals are placeholders, and the act of engaging the rituals produce a meditative state in the congregation. Menus are Hymns. ATBs are communion. They are archaic to enforce reflection, to bring about trance.

On Plot and Character: A literal reading of the bible will reveal terrible plot devices and strained character relationships. But the "feeling" the dogma induces in some is an enriching, satisfying journey. In the same way, the lines between events and people in Final Fantasies are sometimes forced, often poorly paced, and sometimes incomplete. But if Final Fantasy is a religion, then these oversights allow the fanboys to draw their own conclusions, to personalize the fiction with their own ideas.

On Cinemas and Non-Interactive Text: Here are your sermons, your moments of repose where you listen Now and consider Later. Here is revelation, non-interactive. Church is not always browsable; sometimes, you are told a story. You don't raise your hand or ask a question during a lecture; that happens afterwords, in the hallways or forums where the audience gathers. You don't interrupt the sage to say, "Is there a different way you can tell me this?"

If Final Fantasy is a relgion, it would certainly explain the close minded fervor of its followers, and the ease with which it is adopted by teenagers. And now I have to go to work.
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Faithless · . Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 153

dhex · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject:

that's either the beginning of the single best or single worst article tgq will ever publish.
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Faithless · . Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 153

Aren't all articles in TGQ exactly that?
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dhex · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject:

you're just on some next level shit.

however, the higher up you are the farther you have to fall.

so long as no one quotes joseph campbell, we're good.
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Faithless · . Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 153

I quote Joseph Campbell every time I post!! Oh nO!
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Lockeownzj00 · . Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 214

*cringes*

Although I understand why, comparing Final Fantasy to a religion...? In a favorable light...? NoooOooo!

dessgeega · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject:

GSL · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:28 pm Post subject:

Assuming God is represented in your father or a similar father figure, yes. Although there are a few where you literally kill God as well, I think. Or the precursor of humanity, or something equally odd.

Or maybe that was Evangelion I'm thinking of, although the distinctions tend to blur sometimes.

seryogin · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject:

dhex should totally see Evangelion.

And, well, I liked your other definition of FFX more dhex, the one you told me a few months ago. "I hate you dad, because you're literally the last monster I have to kill."
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Mr. Apol · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject:

Doom Roguelike is the greatest RPG ever made.
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Faithless · . Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 153

DonMarco · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903

Faithless · . Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 153

TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

I kind of think that FF7 gets too much flak.

It is largely responsible for getting us out of the era of cookie-cutter plots. You don't have to recognize FF7's plot as necessarily good, mind you. And it definitely wasn't the first game to try to do something beyond "aliens are invading, defeat them!" But it was the first to really inspire creativity via video game storytelling.

This, along with how it popularized the RPG genre in the States, makes it a necessary inclusion into any discussion of video game history. It seems like it is mentioned all too often, but being one of the most important games makes it also the most analyzed.

I kind of think the same thing happened with the original Castlevania. I hate it, and everyone seems to mention it at any given opportunity because it led to such great things.

sawtooth · . Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 419

dhex · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject:

seryogin · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject:

Evangelion is the root of Japanese "I hate you dad" plotlines. In its case being "I hate you, dad, because you're making me pilot a giant robot that contains the soul of my dead mother against angels sent by god." Also, all of the main characters are in high school.
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Mr. Mechanical · Friendly Stranger Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

Isn't Evangelion also made by a guy who pretty much hates anime fans and hates himself for making anime or something? The way you described it to me over the phone that one time made it all sound like a pretty huge affair of self loathing.

dessgeega · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject:

seryogin · Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject:

TheRumblefish · . Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 258 Location: Florida

Faithless · . Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 153

Eva and Final Fantasy in one thread? I'm dangerously close to losing my shit.
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Mr. Apol · Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 11:11 am Post subject:

I once watched the last part of the Eva movie. I've never watched the series.

The whole ending sequence kind of struck me as darkly comedic.

I was laughing at least.
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purplechair · . Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants

Evangelion is one of my favourate things to have ever appeared on my TV, ever. But part of me thinks that it probably isn't as good as I think it is. Perhaps this is the same thing as Final Fantasy fans not being able to describe exactly what it is they like about it so much?

Or: Perhaps years of playing too much Final Fantasy and watching strange anime has rendered us (by whom I mean Final Fantasy fans and I) unable to use words to fully thingy our whatsits?

GSL · Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject:

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Faithless · . Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 153

I mean ... wasn't 1995-96-97 the genesis of the modern otaku? Evangelion, Saturn, Playstation, Final Fantasy VII?

How many figures does Densha Otoko have up in his room from Eva? Eva is a decade old!
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Faithless · . Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 153

GSL · Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 1:07 am Post subject:

Evangelion's longevity is testament to what a properly motivated company will do to keep milking a successful franchise.

Okay, so the show itself is good enough to stand the test of time, but that's not nearly as amusing to poke fun at as Gainax's perpetual prostitution.

DonMarco · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903

Lestrade · Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject:

TheRumblefish · . Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 258 Location: Florida

SuperWes · Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject:

I started playing Final Fantasy XII last night in Japanese. I can't make out the plot very well at all, but from what I have figured out I'm pretty sure the story is "I hate someone else's dad."

It's a nice twist.

Aside from this, the game seems to borrow a lot from previous Final Fantasy games in a nostalgic way while borrowing very little at a gameplay level. The intro features incredible orchestrated remixes of the Final Fantasy IV soundtrack, and the world is one that seems to be powered by crystals. The nostalgiic feelings that these things trigger in me remind me why people defend the 16-bit Final Fantasy games with so much effort.

The 16-bit games really did have more in common than just the Final Fantasy name, and that design styling was sacrificed for steam punk design in FFVII, shades of gray in FFVIII, and flamboyancy in FFX and X-2. FFIX and XI were closer to what I see as Final Fantasy, and this game feels closer visually to both of those than any of the other games in the series. Unlike those two, it seems like the system FFXII is on (PS2) was made precisely with this game in mind, and it never feels like the system is stretching its limits to create the amazing visuals even though it must be. The game looks better than anything I've seen on the Playstation 2, and they're not afraid to let you test that theory by bringing the camera in as close as possible and twirling it around to look at the intricately designed areas.

I have stuff to say about the gameplay, but I'm not sure I'm allowed to. I'll just say that I think I need to get a bit further before it really catches me.

-Wes
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