The Gamer's Quarter

[dessgeega]

as previously mentioned, i've been watching retro core. well, in volume 15 yakumo puts forth a list of his top 10 super famicom games. friends, i think i disagree with it:

1. final fantasy 6
2. contra spirits
3. super castlevania iv
4. super aleste
5. super street fighter 2
6. f-zero
7. super turrican 2
8. majin tensei 2 - spiral nemesis
9. killer instinct
10. super nazo puyo puyo 2

even if you don't think that super aleste is incredibly boring, super castlevania is a tech demo in the guise of a game, contra 3 has nothing on hard corps, and final fantasy 6 is a final fantasy game, something should seem amiss about this list!

it is a list amiss.

i'm generally uninterested in ranking games, but i am interested in discussing games! in this thread we suggest games that would be more worthy of the upper tiers of a super famicom top 10 list. snes games count too (i'm pretty sure super turrican 2 was never released on the japanese super famicom).

super famicom top 10 dessoboard

1. mario paint
the most interesting piece of software on the console by far, i spent lots of time composing minimalist techno and doing sprite art on this when i was little. it pretty much taught me how to use a mouse too. pretty amazing!

2. cameltry
(aka on the ball.) used the super famicom's dumb sprite-scaling capabilities for something other than making a game look more tech demoey! specifically, to create probably my favorite arcade port ever. it's a game where you manuever a marble through a maze by rotating the maze. it makes shaper motion-sick. the sfc port has four times as many courses as the arcade, and they are full to bursting with taito cameos i love this game.

3. fushigi no dungeon 2: furai no shiren
shiren. easily my favorite roguelike game, even moreso than computer roguelikes (read nethack) because it minimizes a lot of the tedious stat-juggling while still providing the core of the roguelike (nethack) experience: randomly-concieved ridiculous scenarios which force you to be inventive. and this game actually teaches you its rules as you play (fei's dungeon). i havn't reached the top of table mountain yet. but i keep hope alive.

4. umihara kawase
shaper and i love to talk about this game. based around using a fishing line/grappling hook to swing and get around, umihara is probably one of the most perfect games ever made. you start with all the abilities you are ever going to need - it's up to you to learn to use them. your skill determines what path you will take through the game and how quickly you will travel. charming sunday-morning-at-the-pier type aesthetics.

5. wild guns
perspective shooter. the player stands in the foreground, enemies in the background. move a crosshair to target and fire while simultaneously leaping out of the way of enemies' shots. and it's totally a western steampunk game, with revolver-packing robots. this game rocks my socks.

6. kiki kaikai - nazo no kuro manto
(aka pocky and rocky.) natsume's licensed kiki kaikai sequel. sayo-chan! the game is absolutely gorgeous and cute, and very nice to play. especially with a friend! i like the other kiki kaikai on the super famicom too, but having more than one on the same list would be silly.

7. super turrican
the first one. it plays really beautifully, like what mario might be if mario was a shooter. listen to the music! huge rambling platforming areas filled with secrets. this game gives me warm fuzzies.

8. the firemen
(sexist title alert: at least one of "the firemen" is actually a woman.) a shooter about putting out fires in a burning skyscraper! not to be confused with jaleco's "firefighting", which is so dry it actually catches fire. spray water in all directions, hold R to lock and strafe. incredibly satisfying. the enemies and bosses are all flames or flaming robots. an ongoing narrative drives your goals and objectives! totally hot.

9. assault suits valken
valken. (note: contains pixel suicide.)

10. battle cross
six-player (via multitap) single-screen racer. like off-road, except with weapons and joy! you can pick up lasers and control-messer-uppers and slower-downers to launch at opponents as you all bump your way around a bunch of small and beautiful multi-level courses. this game is totally great. if you set all the player to computer-controlled, you can bet on who will win - they'll give you odds even!

honorable mention: super gameboy
it's gameboy on your television!

honorable mention: shien the blade chaser
it's a game for your mouse! well, there are joypad controls, but they're not good. you are a ninja! not just any ninja, but a time-travelling first-person ninja! click to to toss shuriken. move the mouse to move your blade, which you use to block attacks. if an enemy pops up in front of you, two quick motions will slice that sucker down to size! boss battles are fought on vast 3D planes! awesome!

honorable mention: uniracers
(aka unirally.) a lot like konami's motocross games but even more delightfully abstract, this is platform-based racing. tricks make you move faster! the unicycles are actually gods competing for their amusement! if you enter "sega" as your name they'll tell you it's not cool enough! there need to be more racing games which are more interested in being videogames than in being racing simulations.

honorable mention: jigsaw party
it's jigsaw puzzles! puyo puyo-style jigsaw battle deathmatches, with weapons to use against your opponent. or you can just play the single-player jigsaw game against the clock. jigsaw puzzles! some of the images are pretty ridiculous (and racist!). i like the "anniversary" set myself.

and there you have it. my list is automatically better because it only has one game in it with "super" in the title. disagreement and conflict? please describe your own top super famicom / snes games!
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[dark steve]

[B coma]

killer instinct. I mean, really?

yeah I liked it back then, but seriously. in the year 200X?

A couple of mentions for me:

Pilotwings: Pretty serene and cohesive considering that it was probably considered (even by Nintendo) to be a tech demo. What can I say, I'm the type of guy that likes making chains through colored rings that float in the air while romantic synth music plays (huh huh).

Sim City: I will defend this version of Sim City to the grave. a lot of people I know get snarky about any PC > console ports on principle, but I honestly think this one has a few things that makes it a better experience: the seasons, the civic buildings, virtual Will Wright, and the freaking MUSIC for crying out loud. honestly, with the ultra-simplistic grid based structure, how much do you lose by not having a mouse? If you really want a GUI disaster look at the SNES port of Sim City 2000.

[dessgeega]

the snes version of simcity is amazing. i love it far above and beyond the pc versions.
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[Lackey]

What made me sad about the SNES Sim City was the Bowse instead of salamander.

Pilotwings is great though. More fun than it's given credit for.
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| Little bird fighting against a bat sect game |

[friedchicken]

Dess, you're absolutely right about Super Turrican instead of Super Turrican 2. The second one has nothing on the first at all, and is probably (I haven't played in some time) inferior even.

Yeah, and the list is pretty suspect otherwise-- especially Killer Instinct. It's the rare fighter that I can't even come close to playing anymore. It smell just a little too much like Mortal Kombat for my taste, and warmed over at that.

The only thing I can add is Gokujyoh Parodius, which adds several new oplayable characters in the Super Fami version of an already very fun game.

[Dracko]

The second Super Turrican had an attempt at some kind of narratively structured level design and sequention, but it never really worked when they put so much effort in making it so obvious. Sure, there where a few brilliant moments, but for all of those, you had forced gameplay conceits and fiddling about with Mode 7.

Super Castlevania was horrible no matter how you put it.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[dessgeega]

[kirkjerk]

Heh, I assembled topten lists ahead of time.... I got to the SNES rather late I'm afraid, and so my choices are rather prosaic. (Maybe technically its not even "Super Famicom...")


Tetris Attack
The best head to head "puzzle" game I've ever played. Lots of games let you send garbage blocks over on the other player, but few make those garbage blocks the key to turning the tables and getting sweet, sweet revenge. Nintendo not bringing its GameCue Puzzle Collection (including a 4-player version of this game) to the USA is a misdemeanor against humanity.
Donkey Kong Country
People who dismiss this game as shallow eye candy probably haven't had the plasure of walking a newbie gamer through all its well-designed levels and boss fights.
Super Metroid
One of the pinnacles of 2D gaming, a great feeling of exploring an alien world.
MicroMachines
Fun 4 player 2D racing with amusing board design, taking toy cars around real world environments.
StarFox
Stunning (for the time) polygon graphics and solid rail gameplay, but I think hampered by the crosspad.
Yoshi's Island
A terrific platformer. The grab Mario before he gets carried off makes for a wonderfully forgiving mechanic, the bosses as magically overgrown regular enemies is nifty, and the monkeys darting around make for a lovely game.
Super Mario Kart
I want to like this game more than I actually do...like StarFox, I really played more of the N64 version first and like it better, but I have to give this game its props.
Super Punch-Out
Great big wonderful cartoony graphics...a worthy followup to everyone trying to beat up Mike Tyson on the NES.
Smash TV
Excellent port of Robotron's spiritual descendent
Rampart
A decent head to head game, with elements of Tetris and those Artillery Duel games...lacking of the arcade's 3 player support hurts it.

Honorable Mentions:
F-Zero / Super Mario World / Pilotwings / Super Mario All-Stars

[player 2]

The list isn't as bad as you guys are making it out to be. Killer Instinct on the SNES is suspect, but it's not really that bad of a choice.

They did forget Earthbound, though.
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Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

[dessgeega]

really i just felt this was a missed opportunity to draw attention to lesser-known games on the console. especially given the source.

also, obligatory mention of starfox 2, which was never actually released but which i love dearly.
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[kirkjerk]

Yeah, unfortunately "Micro Machines" and "Rampart" are the only remotely lesser known titles on my list. So it's not much of an educational experience...

[B coma]

oh, and kirby super star, which is fun for the entire family.

(kirby 3 seemed really boring. I never play more than 10 minutes of it).

[Dracko]

Kirby 3 was better than Superstar.

There, I said it.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[SuperWes]

Kirby 2 was better than Kirby 3.

There, I said it.

-Wes
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[B coma]

hold on a sec. you mean kirby's dreamland 2 for gameboy?

I'd agree.

[friedchicken]

There were a bunch of platformers for the SNES that while not great, were like spiritual successors of similar games for the NES. Hagane is one that springs to mind. I think there was a decent Mazinger one too. Like I said they're no Ninja Spirits (PCE), but they're at least pretty good.

[SuperWes]

[dessgeega]

kirby superstar is probably better understood as a two-player beat-em-up than as a platforming game.
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[Swimmy]

2-player beat-'em-up RPGs don't get much better than Super Ninja Boy. Though the passwords instead of saves are infuriating.

Also Ardy Lightfoot is just too goddamned cute.
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"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin

[OtakupunkX]

Tetris Attack is the only game that ever made me cry (I was six or seven and pretty much cried all the time anyway, and technically it wasn't the game that made me cry but the fact that my mom had taken it back without telling me), so that one holds a special place in my heart.

I have to agree with everyone who thinks SimCity is better on SNES than PC. SimCity 2000 on SNES wasn't bad either, but I prefer the PC version.

Kirby 3 had a really cool art style.

[kirkjerk]

[Lackey]

Is Kirby Superstar the one with the gun/samurai duel mini-game? Because that resulted in many very tense moments in friends' basements.
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| Little bird fighting against a bat sect game |

[TheRumblefish]

Metal Warriors was a better experience for me then Cybernator. Yes, I am coming clean. They are two of my favorites though. I love Doom Troopers, even though it still sucks as much as it did when I was eight.
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[Fred]

[helicopterp]

[simplicio]

I sincerely can't think of a reason Secret of Mana hasn't been mentioned, other than the fact that Dess doesn't like it.

And I think Super Mario World and Yoshi's Island deserve a place on the list, really.

[player 2]

[a_plus]

i feel like this is maybe an obvious one, maybe even "pedestrian" (?), but: chronotrigger.
it did what very few rpgs before or after it have seemed to do: NO RANDOM BATTLES. i hate hate hate random battles. the battles mechanics are fun, too, with the mix 'n' matching of your characters. I don't remember how difficult it was, not having played it in ages, but i think it could have been a bit more difficult. and anyway it's just a cute game with nice music and visuals, and an interesting story line (but i love time travel). in the top 3 rpgs on the snes, and the most recent rpg i can still play/enjoy.

[dessgeega]

i want to like time travel stories for their clever narrative devices but most of those devices rely upon a linear conception of time, one in which time travel is impossible!

also, puyo puyo fever.
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[player 2]

[a_plus]

yeah, i have to suspend my suspension of disbelief with regards to time travel, but it's still super fun.

also, ALL puyos. love 'em.

[Fred]

[kirkjerk]

[kirkjerk]

[simplicio]

Seiken Densetsu- the japanese name for the series.

Also the MUSIC! Certainly my favorite music in any game ever.

[OtakupunkX]

[kirkjerk]

Well, it was kind of nice that Pokemon Puzzle League upped the number of samples, but of course the taunts were actually pretty annoying, and I actively missed the little avatar aviations. (One of the charms of Kirby's Avalance is the little Kirby just bopping around doing his own thing in between the playfields)

I'm still ticked at Nintendo for not bringing their Puzzle Collection to the USA. I imported a copy... it's pretty decent, though I was kind of surprised that maybe dull old Dr. Mario is a better four player game than Panel de Pon, at least according to my gaming buddies. Neither is as delightful as I expected... Panel de Pon loses something when the garbage redirection follows some arbitrary rules about color, and Dr. Mario is kind of a "don't mess up" grind.

[OtakupunkX]

I never did get around to importing that. I was kind of hoping that they'd bring it out over here cheap one day, especially since they brought out Puzzle League/Dr. Mario (I think that's what it was) on GBA.

[kirkjerk]

[dessgeega]

i like the gba one because it's so clean. i have the gamecube game and though four-player matches are awfully swell the screens are just so thick with characters and animations.

and you can actually turn on that little flumpfy fellow from panel de pon in the gba game if you want to.
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[Swimmy]

[dessgeega]

twinkle star sprites definitely
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[helicopterp]

[kirkjerk]

[dessgeega]

it was released on a few consoles, i think all japanese. you can play it in mame, though.

the ps2 version has actually been really growing on me.
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