The Gamer's Quarter

SuperWes · Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject: New Computer!

The woman and I have been savin' up some money and we're getting to where we might be able to afford a new computer. We've been talking about spending around $1000-$1200 for a computer + monitor that will hopefully last us 3 - 5 years. The one we like most out of what we've looked at so far is this one. It seems cheap ($729.99 after rebate) and it would leave us plenty of leftover money to splurge on a 19" LCD monitor. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Everyone always suggests that I build my own, but really it doesn't seem to save us that much, if any at all, in the end, and if I'm not really planning on upgrading anything except for RAM what's the point?

Keep in mind, this will be used mostly for internet, photoshop, indesign, writing code, and playing World of Warcraft. Suggestions on $350-$450 range monitors would be helpful as well Smile

-Wes
_________________

wourme · . Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia

Newegg.com has a bunch of ViewSonic LCD monitors in your price range. We got a 19" recently and we're happy with it.

dhex · Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject:

building your own can save a lot of money.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889107001

is a great monitor if you have the space/money.
_________________

friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

I'm actually considering getting a Mac as my next computer. It would be much nicer for graphics apps, and man are those displays nice.

I know a few TGQ'ers have Macs-- anybody want to give me advice about whether or not I should get one of the last generation PowerPC or one of the newer Intel ones? I'm looking at the iMac, not a Powerbook or iBook or anything.

Oh, and dhex, I think building your own is the best way to go price and configuration-wise. But only if you're willing to shop around all over the place online and possibly go to one of those 'computer show and sale' convention things. The only thing drawback I can think of is that cases for build-your-owns are often pretty tacky.

dhex · Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:36 am Post subject:

that's why there are great people like lian-li.

http://www.lian-li.com/Product/Chassis/M_C_PS_PC-60.htm

i cannot recommend lian-li cases enough. they're really fucking beautiful.

also, you don't need to go to shows or whatever. just newegg. the computer i built recently would have been at least 2 grand built by someone else. and they're relatively easy to build assuming you actually do all the work beforehand - that means figuring out what your most important ability is, and building the system around that.

with macs, you basically just need to decide how much money you can spend, and get that much computer, and then blow out the memory yourself (they charge way too fucking much for memory direct from apple).

i mean, there's no functional difference in graphics apps, however. you may be disappointed. but their physical design is really nice.
_________________

friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

*christina* · . Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 16 Location: St. Louis, MO

Hi gamer peeps, I'm "the woman" mentioned above.
Anyway, my mom went on newegg and designed the following:

AMD-compatible Motherboards
MSI K8NGM2-L Socket 939 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #:K8NGM2-L
$66.00

ATX Computer Cases
Sunbeam IC-XSD-BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450W Power Supply - Retail
Model #:IC-XSD-BK
$40.99

CD/DVD Burners (RW Drives)
PLEXTOR Black IDE Slot Load DVD Burner Model PX-716AL/SW - Retail
Model #:PX-716AL/SW
** This item is warranted through the product manufacturer only. what's this?
$50.00 Mail-in Rebate
$145.99

Internal Hard Drives
Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6L300S0 300GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #:6L300S0
$120.99

Memory - System
Kingston ValueRAM 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model KVR400/1GR - Retail
Model #:KVR400/1GR
$81.99

Processors
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ ClawHammer 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3500ASBOX - Retail
Model #:ADA3500ASBOX
** This item is warranted through the product manufacturer only. what's this?
$206.00

Video Cards
XFX PVT43GUDF3 Geforce 6600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
Model #:PVT43GUDF3
$165.00

SubTotal: $826.96

I think this looks decent... other than the case which was apparently designed by Cobra Commander. If anyone can come up with a reason not to buy any of the above please comment. I think Wes is just ashamed to let my mom design and build our computer. It's a blow to his techno-ego or something. Thanks for the help!

~christina

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

If you're looking for something less Go Joe!, take a look at some Antec cases. They're always well made. The Antec SLK3800B would be a good place to look.

Good planning with the 1gig RAM stick, cause you'll probably want another in a couple years.

Now your problem is the motherboard: You've got a small form factor thing there, without the PCI-Express slots for your videocard. Try this.

There's no need for that Plextor expense for a DVD burner. Try this NEC

I'd personally use a Seagate HDD for their 5 year warranty (plus they're very quiet).

For the videocard, stick with PCI-E, but you might look at a 6800 or even 7800. Depends on your usage, I guess.

I'd say go with a Dell 2005FPW for your monitor. If you can get it on sale it's quite reasonable.

SuperWes · Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:40 pm Post subject:

Those are some good suggestions man, thanks!

I'm looking at the motherboard you picked out vs. the one she picked out and the only difference I see is that there are 3 PCI Express X1 slots vs. 1. This isn't going to be a gaming rig since I play almost exclusively console games so there's really not a lot of need for a super fancy video card. The only games that will be played on it will probably be World of Warcraft, a bit of Sims 2, and maybe Civ 4 if I've got the money after buying the computer. We probably won't buy a new computer for at least 4 or 5 years, and will probably not upgrade anything except RAM between now and then, so there's no real reason to have a fancy motherboard.

That said, I'm strongly considering buying a couple of TV Tuners and turning the whole thing it into a Windows Media Center PC to use with my 360. I'd also like to use it to capture screenshots for TGQ articles. This to me seems more important than any extra money that could be put into a super nice video card.

So yeah, with that in mind, do we really need the better motherboard? Does anyone know whether video cards run through PCI Express slots or standard PCI slots? Does it matter? Also, any suggestions on a cheapish, but good, WMC capable TV Tuner?

-Wes
_________________

dhex · Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject:

pci express (and sata to a lesser degree) will somewhat help future proof your computer.

also ram: don't buy cheap ram! don't buy the stupid expensive stuff, but get brand name ram. corsair has always shown me love. i would also get 2 gb for future-proofness and because it's cheap.

that's a lot of money for a dvd burner, too.

6600gt is a good choice for your video card.

here's the machine i built via newegg for reference (not counting monitor):

SuperWes · Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject:

With a bit of push and pull I've come up with this, which I think would be a good PC for our uses. I know nothing about cases and power supplies or anything like that, so let me know if I'm screwing up somewhere:

DVD burner -
NEC Black IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner Model ND-3550A - OEM
$38.99

Case -
Athenatech A100SC.270 Silver / Charcoal Steel Desktop / Mini Tower Convertible Case Computer Case 270W Power Supply - Retail
$45.99

HDD -
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3250823A 250GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM
$101

Motherboard -
MSI K8NGM2-L Socket 939 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
$66

TV Tuner -
Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-150 MCE PCI Interface 1042 Tuner Card - Retail
$64.99

Video Card -
XFX PVT43GUDF3 Geforce 6600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
$165

RAM -
Kingston ValueRAM 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model KVR400/1GR - Retail
$82.80

Processor -
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ ClawHammer 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3500ASBOX - Retail
$206

Monitor -
Sony 19" HS-Series Flat Panel LCD DisplayspacerSDM-HS95/B
$349.99

TOTAL: $1120.76
_________________

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Go with an ATI video card. Also, why the TV tuner?

SuperWes · Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:07 pm Post subject:

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Well, more like brand hate on the GeForce.

(sorry about not reading everything I am trying to skim weeks of forum in a few hours)

dhex · Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject:

you need to get a powersupply that's much bigger and offers pci-x connectors, because the video card will need extra power. at least 300+w. antec/seasonic/pc power and cooling/etc. assuming you're not going to be tossing in extra hds or going sli anytime soon, you should be fine with less than 400.

this isn't bad.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817151021

this would be better
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817151022

this would be best of all:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817104953
_________________

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Let me reiterate; that motherboard and case you currently have are Micro ATX - it's small form factor. Now, if you don't need it small, I wouldn't bother with Micro. PCI-E is power hungry and hot, meaning you'll need a beefier PSU (I'd go with 350W minimum), and in a small case with less ventilation possibilities that's going to mean more heat and a shorter lifespan for the rig. If you are going to stick with M-ATX, I'd say look at the Coolermaster cases; some of them come with a decent PSU installed, plus better cooling.

Don't listen to Shaper. I prefer ATI myself, but that's only brand loyalty and I concede that nVidia is just as strong in this generation of cards. Either will do just fine though; if you're being informed by your experience 5 or so years ago it's time to get over it; both companies have changed a lot since the days of Quake. If you just want to be an activist on the subject, ATI's endorsed by Valve, nVidia by iD, and any impressions you might draw from that are pretty much correct.

SuperWes · Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject:

Does this have all the shit we need?

-Wes
_________________

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

Did you need it out of stock?

SuperWes · Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:15 pm Post subject:

I don't need it today. It'll probably be a week or two before we order.

-Wes
_________________

dhex · Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:16 pm Post subject:

i've heard decent things about cooler master cases, despite the stupid name, in terms of budget buys:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811119074

i would not trust a pack-in psu, especially with a pci-e vid card. no real reason other than mean, heartless bigotry.

speaking of graphics: i've used nvidia more or less forever. never had any problems. drivers are generally top notch. etc. but both are essentially equivalent in terms of display quality and build quality. everyone complains about the official driver sets for both, but if you're not overclocking you're not going to notice much difference either way.
_________________

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

nVidia killed my kitten, I am angry. LISTEN TO ME!

And like I said, nVidia did me wrong last time I went with them (2001) and refuse to purchase from them again. It was a deciding factor on my laptop in fact.

*christina* · . Joined: 17 Jan 2006 Posts: 16 Location: St. Louis, MO

I like this case... but only one fan. Someone tell me if it will still work?
Just PC JPC899GN

Our other option was this... but it is not nearly as awesome in looks:
Coolmax CS-470

~christina

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

I should mention that I really like the size and use of the Shuttle cases.

SuperWes · Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:43 pm Post subject:

I should mention that I don't like the cost. Yikes! I'm buying the monitor in a few minutes!

-Wes
_________________

dhex · Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject:

the shuttle is a barebones dealy, it has a motherboard inside it already.

anyway, a single fan is probably not enough. but like, seven is too many. two should be fine, (this is just case fans, not counting the northbridge fan, the cpu fan, the power supply fan, the video card fan, etc) and if you have a top vent, 3 is ok.
_________________

SuperWes · Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject:

no no no. don't drill anything.

if you look at this:

you'll see two fan grills on the back and one on the front, in the bottom half of the case. a 120mm fan usually goes in the front, it looks like a 120mm fan is in the back (it might be 80) and the top grill is for the fan on the power supply. you can get a 120mm fan from almost anywhere, but since you only have 1 hd, you shouldn't have any cooling problems (assuming you apply your thermal paste correctly on your cpu, etc etc and so forth)

btw, don't forget to buy arctic silver 5 compound for the cpu.
_________________

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

dhex · Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject:

pnce again we disagree, dear sir.

it's worth five bucks, at least based on my limited testing. almost 10 degrees celcius difference on the last rig (p4 2.0 ghz) compared to stock thermal paste solution.

it is also probably irrelevant in wes' case, so either way he wins.
_________________

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

dhex · Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject:

pnly if you don't know how to clean it.

besides, cpu warranties are, shall we say, less than flexible; they are not in line, certainly, with the day to day behavior of the sorts of people who would void their warranties through overclocking and the like (and who, incidentally, created much of the market AMD enjoys today).
_________________

sawtooth · . Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 419

friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

dhex · Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:04 am Post subject:

you should definitely ask/visit forums. forums are a gift from zog when trying to do this stuff.
_________________

BrokenFiction · Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 11:41 am Post subject:

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

Nah, we're still fucked till the licensing fees go down on Havoc physics.

sawtooth · . Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 419

Apparently there's a programming flaw deep within OS X that more or less cripples OpenGL performance, which is disheartening. A flaw that would require an entire rewrite, apparently, for it to be solved.

Also, get at least a gig of ram if you want things to run smoothly.

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject:

Here's the update. It's really no different than before, but I added a few things and changed some stuff around:

DVD burner -
NEC Black IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner Model ND-3550A - OEM
$38.99

Case -
JUST PC JPC899GN Green/White Steel/Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450W Power Supply - Retail
$65.99

HDD -
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 ST3250823A 250GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM
$101

Motherboard -
MSI K8NGM2-L Socket 939 NVIDIA GeForce 6100 Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
$66

TV Tuner -
Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-150 MCE PCI Interface 1042 Tuner Card - Retail
$64.99

Video Card -
XFX PVT43GUDF3 Geforce 6600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
$165

RAM -
Kingston ValueRAM 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model KVR400/1GR - Retail
$82.80

Processor -
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ ClawHammer 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3500ASBOX - Retail
$206

Card Reader -
SABRENT SBT-ICR42B 42-in-1 USB 2.0 Black Internal & External Card Reader/Writer - Retail
$12.99

Fan -
Thermaltake A1280 120mm Ball Cooling Fan - Retail
$8.49

Monitor -
Sony 19" HS-Series Flat Panel LCD DisplayspacerSDM-HS95/B
$279.99

TOTAL: $1093.75
_________________

dhex · Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject:

seems good. what's the os you're going to use? xp?
_________________

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject:

I've been thinking Windows XP Media Center Edition. The hope is to run recorded TV shows wirelessly off of the X-Box 360, but we'll see how that goes.

-Wes
_________________

dhex · Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject:

convergence! convergence!

that's interesting.

edit: translation - i know nothing about media centers.
_________________

SuperWes · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:40 am Post subject:

New Computer Get! Actually, instead of building our own, Christina and I decided that it would cost relatively the same and save us a lot of hassle to just go ahead and buy a pre-built one. So here it is. It's pretty much the same thing we were going to build, but this one already has things like an OS and Video Capture card built in. Nice! We also bought stuff to upgrade our wireless network to a crazy dual band 802.11 A+G. Should make media center stuff run a lot nicer.

I'm really enjoying it.

-Wes
_________________

friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

dhex · Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:53 am Post subject:

well, yeah. i use a mac at work for design. i use a pc at home. the difference is that my employer paid for the mac at work, while the computer at home i built myself. macs are just too expensive for me to justify spending money on when i can out-spec them for at least half the cost.
_________________