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SuperWes
Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3725
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 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject: IGN makes broad, overarching statement on games with Soul |
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| Juan Castro wrote: | | It's a vapid action game without the refined control and visual flair required of a game with no soul. |
This quote is from the IGN review of TMNT 3: Mutant Nightmare. Don't ask me why I was reading an IGN review of TMNT 3: Mutant Nightmare, but lets just say that I still have a soft spot in my heart for TMNT and I'm convinced that one of the biggest reasons IGN has such a bad rap is Ivan Sullic. But that's not what this is about. It's about the quote above.
There are two key words in that quote that really stand out: vapid and soul.
They're strong words to gamers because a lot of the stuff that comes out meets these two words to a tee. Many sequels and most licensed games simply reek of grab-for-cash disposability, but what's between those words is interesting. He seems to imply that good control and impressive visuals can make up for a lack of soul.
Is it true that games don't need to be much more than solid to be interesting? I'll have to admit that sometimes I feel like that, but it's still a bold statement. Even the worst games these days are at least tolerable - unlike in the past when some games were just unplayable. A lot of people actually LIKED Enter the Matrix and it's not impossible to see why when you actually play it for yourself. It's generally a solid game in between each of its flaws. Someone who bought their Playstation to play Madden would probably enjoy it in blissful unawareness that action games can, and are often much, much better. The same can't be said for games like Xmen NES, where stabbing yourself in the hand with a rusty knife would probably be prefferable to spending more than ten minutes with it.
So what do you guys think? Is Juan (read: IGN) out of line for making that statement? How far does presentation and playablity go toward making up for a lack of Soul?
-Wes
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: bohan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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i think there are terrible games that possess soul.
everyone play urban yeti right now.
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ApM
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Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 1210
Location: Ottawa, ON
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Get Ready To Yeti? Screenshots reminiscent of both Grand Theft Auto and Toobin' on the box? Why was this not mentioned in the GBA thread?
To answer your question, with a question of my own: How much soul would you say something like chess has? |
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Lackey
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Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1107
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Soul seems to be a really arbitrary thing. I think people just use it when they don't want to say their opinion on the content of a game.
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SuperWes
Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ApM wrote: | | How much soul would you say something like chess has? |
That's kind of an invalid argument. Chess has neither graphics or control.
-Wes
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ApM
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| Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperWes wrote: | | ApM wrote: | | How much soul would you say something like chess has? |
That's kind of an invalid argument. Chess has neither graphics or control. |
Well, pretend we're comparing Atari Video Chess to the latest, fanciest version of Chessmeister 5 Billion and 1. (Let's further pretend that Chessmeister 5 Billion and 1 wasn't a real game, and was in fact good.) Chess is all about the mechanics; it's something you find good in and love for its own sake*.
If you're a person who likes chess a lot, you might say, "This Atari Video Chess is terrible! Worthless! It's ugly, awkward to move my pieces and I can beat it in seven moves every time!"
The guy writing that review, he likes Beat-Em-Up Action Game a lot, for its own sake. He doesn't need it to make him feel morally ambiguous, or to allow him to control a yeti, or whatever random vague things you can roll up into a katamari and call "soul". He just viscerally likes beating stuff up with a joystick, and if a game pulls that off well, then he's pretty much set.
I really don't think that's somehow an invalid way to enjoy your entertainment. Just because I don't go see the latest Hollywood blockbuster for the explosions, doesn't mean they're not damn fine explosions.
* Though I, personally, hate chess. |
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Lackey
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:22 am Post subject: |
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So soul is like, the player projecting his passion onto the game?
This is what I'm saying, anyway.
Alternatively the creators' passion could be evident in the game. I'm not sure how you'd really know though.
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dark steve
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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to think you can always tell.
Last edited by dark steve on Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Szczepaniak
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Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Posts: 770
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Wes raises a good point. Many games today have high production values, yet are little more than polished turds.
It also leads to a very samey game environment.
Myeh, I prefer retro tbh. |
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Tablesaw
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Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 303
Location: LACAUSA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperWes wrote: | | ApM wrote: | | How much soul would you say something like chess has? |
That's kind of an invalid argument. Chess has neither graphics or control. |
Totally wrong.
My chess set was hand-carved in Russia. Each the character of each piece rises out of an intricate base, and the height of each piece corresponds to its power. The males' faces are cut with sharp, angular lines. They have full mustaches and beards. The black pieces are painted, the white pieces are unpainted, but the queens for both sides have painted faces. The only red in the set is the color of their lips.
The wood is light, surprisingly so. It encourages the player to delicately lift each piece from its place and then gently lay it to rest in its new position.
My friend's chess set is a travel edition. The pieces are magnetic discs smaller than my pinky. The white pieces are identical to the black, the colors are just inversed. The symbols for each piece are standard, but it's hard for him to remember which crown belongs to the king and which belongs to the queen.
Because the pieces are small and magnetic, it's difficult to move them without disturbing the board. They're hard to pick up because the are small, flat, and magnetic; sliding them around invariably jostles the other pieces.
When you said that chess doesn't have any graphics or control, I think you were referring to the platonic ideal of chess that exists only in the minds of those people who play games entirely in their head, usually against 50 people simultaneously, while blindfolded. In practice, the game does require a physical embodiment.
Whether a game can be said to have soul based on its mechanics alone is a different issue, and a valid one. I think it's an issue of simplicity, balance and elegance. Chess has soul. Go has more soul. Monopoly does have some soul, but the mechanics are too complicated for most people to actually play the game in a soulful way.
But the sould of mechanics can definitely be enhanced or destroyed by soulfulness or soullessness of their embodiment. Thats why my chess set has more soul than Chess itself, and why my friend's set has no soul, in spite of Chess itself.
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dhex
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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that's kinda harsh towards one of the earliest real time strategy games. that's like picking on the sugarhill gang.
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
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| Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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i can pick on the sugarhill gang.
i will, if provoked.
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Tablesaw
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| dhex wrote: | | that's kinda harsh towards one of the earliest real time strategy games. that's like picking on the sugarhill gang. |
Huh? Chess is turn-based strategy.
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SuperWes
Updated the banners, but not his title
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Tablesaw wrote: | | Huh? Chess is turn-based strategy. |
Unless you're playing with a timer. Then it's ATB.
-Wes
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dhex
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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picking on the sugarhill gang is pretty harsh, though. proto-anythings tend to be rough.
and yeah, chess is turn-based. i am not nearly as clever as i like to think.
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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sugarhill gang were by no means the first rappers, though. in fact they bit incessantly from other, less known rappers.
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dhex
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| Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2005 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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absolutely.
but they started the ball rolling in terms of being of being sued for sampling.
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seryogin
JRPG Kommissar
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 886
Location: Occupied Stalingrad
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:27 am Post subject: |
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IGN talking about souls is like whoever-that-bastard-was-that-wrote-Lucky-Wander-Boy talking about videogames.
it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. |
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ApM
Admin Rockstar
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 1210
Location: Ottawa, ON
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Man, I liked Lucky Wander Boy.
I mean, masturbating to Atari 2600 Adventure is such a useful metaphor. |
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:53 am Post subject: |
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When ever I think of chess it makes me sad now. Since I watched the Decalouge that kid is all I can associate with chess. But I regress.
My chess set is hand carved out of marble from Mexico (where I bought it). It is very nice, and quite heavy. My only issue is that there is not enought facial detail.
I really want a Go set that is nice.
Anyways, I thought I should point to this: http://www.buzzcut.com/article.php?story=20050609180139369 |
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