The Gamer's Quarter

player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Sit.

And think.

Really, sit and think. Sit and think about Nintendo. Sit and think about the Revolution. Think about what they mean. What they mean for the future of our little hobby, what they mean stacked against Microsoft, Sony, XBox360, and PS3.

Now, all of you ready to do something right now as you're reading this sentence, you're all idiots. You didn't sit and think. Kneejerk reactions are not helpful. You really have to sit and think about it. Really, sit and think about it. What the controller means. What the virtual console means. What videogames mean.

They're onto something.

My exgirlfriend would never touch a game controller. It was too disjoint from reality. Think about the games you like to play. Think about how they control. Think about how the best ones are the "simple" ones. The ones that feel natural.

You know what I think?

I think that all of the naysayers, all of the excited, everyone, really... I think all of you fuckers are still absolutely stunned by this. All of the "this is dumb", all of the "this is awesome", all of it. They're just people saying something to say something.. Not many people have actually put everything together. It isn't just a console. It's a whole paradigm shift. And for most people, that'll take a while to sink in. Even if, in the end, you're still a naysayer - it'll still take a while to sink in.

I'm not going to say that it's going to work. Or that it is a financial success. I just want people to sit and think about it first. Sit and think and then maybe you'll figure out what it all means. The Lost Garden article really is amazing. It may be the first to really, you know, get it.

It's too technical and marketbased, but it still gets it. It knows what it means in terms of, you know, the market. It doesn't hype or knock down the revolution. But it's too narrowminded, I think. It's obviously only discussing the business side, and it also fails to look at, explciitly, Nintendo's hopes to reinvigorate the industry*. And hopefully this thread can be a gaming community equivalent in terms of intelligence and thoughtfulness.

*Note: Iwata's keynote speech at TGS is really interesting to watch. Not just the demo of the people fake-playing the Revolution, but what Iwata is saying about the DS, the Revolution, and videogames' future really openned my eyes.
_________________
Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

SuperWes · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject:

This is going to sound cocky and pretentious, but I kind of assume that the reason most of us around here are accepting of the concept of the Revolution controller is that we all understand that they're not trying to replace the current controller, but rather offer an alternative to what we've been seeing for so long.

It's kind of like The Gamer's Quarter really.

The Gamer's Quarter is a magazine that's devoted to trying new things with videogame writing. We've grown a certain discontentment toward the traditional way of writing about videogames and we strive to offer an alternative. It's not our intention to replace current videogame magazines. They definately have their place, it's just that there's only so much you can do with a traditional review/preview/subtitled screenshotfest that is the current videogame magazine. Somebody needs to offer something for people who know that videogame writing has not yet reached its potential and that a drastic change that isn't neccessarily better, yet certainly no worse than what everyone else is doing is what's needed. Might as well be TGQ.

The Nintendo Revolution is a video game system that's devoted to trying new things with videogames. Nintendo has grown a certain discontentment toward the tradition way of controlling videogames and they strive to offer an alternative. It's not their intention to replace current videogames. They definately have their place, it's just that there's only so much you can do with the traditional Platformer/FPS/Driving Gamefest that is the current videogame market. Somebody needs to offer something for people who know that videogames have not yet reached their potential and that a drastic change that isn't neccessarily better, yet certainly no worse than what everyone else is doing is what's needed. Might as well be Nintendo.

-Wes
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player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Excuse me if I sound offensive, but I do not mean it in that way.

I do not believe that Nintendo is trying to fill a niche like the GQ is trying to fill a niche. I mean, that's what tGQ does, right? It looks at gamers and says, "hey, here is a group of unsatisfied gamers, let's fix their qualms". Nintendo's totally doing the opposite. If you watch Iwata's press conference, the way Nintendo sees it is that "gamers" occupy the niche.

And the niche would be the people that push buttons to play videogames.

Think about it. Think about the audience the DS has encapsulated. It's not traditional gamers. Think about how Nintendo just doesn't care about us oldschool gamers. They want an entire new audience. The "virtual console" is just a concession made to keep oldschool gamers in tow. It's... bigger, I think.
_________________
Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Dude. I don't care about us oldschool gamers either. Look, I know this place, as an IC outgrowth, really swings toward 2D fighters and shooters in a Hardcore Genre Addict sense (that Lost Garden piece is great, by the way. Thanks for the link), but I'm not about to sit here and wax poetic about the meditative purity of Ikaruga or Tetris. I find the oft-held notion that the pinnacle of gaming took place before 1990 to be ridiculous and xenophobic. I think videogames have the potential to be a true, serious artform, but the entertainment and addiction they also provide continue to undermine their growth. Maybe the way to ensure progress is to acclimate the non-gaming world to the existence and mechanics of games.

I've seen lots said about how controller complexity is a barrier in the way converting new gamers, but how about the simple fact that the incomprehensible, static controller is a major source of the stigma gaming endures? I don't care if Grandpa wants to play Mario Kart or not (well, I actually do, but only cause he's been dead for years), but if he can see something physical that doesn't appear to be total inactivity on my part, he might stop thinking about what a waste of time it is. Hell, forget grandpa, think about your non-gaming peers who still enjoy DDR, Samba de Amigo, Karaoke Revolution etc. in a social setting. I nearly guarantee they'll have more fun with those than with a game of Mario Party, not because of the "difficulty" of a gamepad, but because of the activity involved.

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

You see, I have not been online too much. I get a bit of time here and there at work and usually just want to sit on my couch by the time I get home after 10+ hour days of work. But there it is, in the back of my head, constantly. That silly controller that looks too much like a remote. Turn it on side and you have a pretty competent NES controller.

I don’t know all the details, and have yet to look at the key note. I know what this controller is doing. I know more than I knew what the Gamecube was trying to do.

I can’t figure out if I like it or not. I completely understand it, but I don’t know if I like it. I don’t see quite the options and opportunities for this that I see (initially saw as well) in the DS.

I don’t herald the early 90s as a pinnacle or anything like that. It does capture an excellent time in games though. There seems to be less and less a percentage of games that I want to play for current systems, things are getting stagnant, someone had to do something.

I know about one thing for sure, the Revolution will end up with the best Light Saber game anyone has played to date.

TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Tollmaster has it more right, I think, than most everyone.

That the Revolution is its own new thing, yeah, sure. It's supposed to reinvigorate the industry. But not only that, it's supposed to make the industry grow. Think about it this way: every videogame that made videogames "cool" was always "cool" in a videogame sense. Breaking down that barrier, well, is more along the lines of "cool". Not in a videogame sense.

For example: sword fighting in Soul Calibur is about pushing directions and buttons. It is not literal. If I think it's "cool" to fight with swords, I still may not like Soul Calibur because, well, I'm pushing buttons and not waving a sword.

It's an example, but it's an important one. Dance Dance Revolution may even be a better one. People don't like "videogames" because they're a translation. Calling pushing buttons "fighting" is really an absurd thing to say much less do. DDR's ridiculousness is quite apparent, too.

The way I see it is that making videogames more literal... well... it makes the idea of videogames more transparent. And in a media where the experience in critical, making the vehicle to the experience transparent... that's critical, too.

I haven't explained myself well, but hopefully maybe some of you understand.
_________________
Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

david · . Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 170 Location: b, md

simplicio mentioned the stigma of the "incomprehensible, static controller," and I'd like to add that another barrier to entry is how lame it looks to hold. We're all like rodents clutching food pellets in front of us. We give up the free motion of our arms to service these contraptions, our tiny masters with whom we so earnestly fiddle. A one handed controller doesn't demand that you hold your hands in the middle of your body like begging paws. We'll be able to sit with whatever attitude suits us. We can hold iced tea or scratch our jaws or talk on the phone. Even with the plug-in analog stick, there's more flexibility than before.

Every time someone walks in to see me playing video games, I feel like I was just caught lip synching in the mirror.

Now I'm going to sit and think. The rest of you would be advised to do the same.
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player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

I would really love to see a Revolution game that was really a martial arts trainer. Seriously, virtual Bruce Lee Jeet Kune Do training? Escrima training? Holy fuck.
_________________
Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

dhex · Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:35 am Post subject:

oh jesus no.

there's some serious simulacrum type shit going on with this stuff.
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dessgeega · Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:41 am Post subject:

and of course you think that's a travesty.
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SuperWes · Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:26 pm Post subject:

How many people are going to end up in the hospital with sore wangs because they duct taped the Revolution controller to their wang to "fully immerse" themselves in Tomb Raider 7? Nintendo has potentially caused a major reproductive travesty.

-Wes
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player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

dessgeega · Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:51 pm Post subject:

have you all heard my story about the word "simulacrum"?
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player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

I want to make a thread that just says, "No," but that would be kind of ridiculous, wouldn't it?
_________________
Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

dhex · Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:16 pm Post subject:

no, please tell.

i failed to come up for a better word than "weirdo simulated fakery like some bad sci fi harrison bergeron future where everything fake is real and real is fake and the simulation is running the machine and everything is everyone doing things that aren't things at all and having semi-experiences at the whim and will of the many - who are in actuality QUITE FEW."

so yeah, i played the simulacrum card. i suck!
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player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

I'm sure a Revolution martial arts simulator would get everyone confused between reality and fiction. And by that I mean that I don't see what's so wrong with it at all.
_________________
Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

dhex · Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:51 pm Post subject:

it wouldn't get anyone confused, outside of people who are already confused by mcdojos.

i've probably just been reading too much julius evola lately.
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Tablesaw · . Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 303 Location: LACAUSA

player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Listen to how unnatural it is to fit old videogame jargon to the Revolution

"Three D mouse"

"It's like your right hand analogue"

Ironically, when they talk about taping it to someone's head... it just makes more sense.
_________________
Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Double posting because this conversation just keeps happening to me...

I was talking to a friend today. She was telling me that she loved old Nintendo, but she doesn't like playing newer games. She said that new systems are just boring to her. More of the same. Does anyone know people that just fell off the videogame world because games got too complicated?

During Iwata's keynote speech, he said something about gamers that did that. He said he wanted to bring them back. They were going to fix the complexity, but... I have a sinking feeling that it isn't just complexity that's the problem. I really do think maturity of subject is going to be massively important. Right?
_________________
Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

dessgeega · Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject:

aljones15 · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:55 am Post subject:

Just a couple of things. The DS' anti-games like the IQ games and Electro-Plankton are actually the only games I play these days. I have a ps2 and played god of war recently beat it, traded it, got the new katamarin, and then stopped. on the other hand I find myself carrying around my DS and playing Yawaraka Atama Juku all the time, I got bored with Castlevania after about 2 weeks of wondering around and not being able to find the next area etc.I hardly ever pick up my PSP etc and this is living in korea where american, japanese, and everything all are imported weekly and you can usually buy whatever the newest game is in any of 3 different national versions. My point being the simple little games Nintendo is perfecting are far more addictive than the usual fare. While I would love to have a decent FPS or something for the DS or even a revolutionary game that really took advantage of the touch-screen, the anti-game manifesto is working quite well. I could see the DS continuing to grow as people who don't usually bother with games find out how engaging it is.

Also taken the fact that Japan has declared all Japanese tv sets be VR by 2020 or so (it's a government regulation requiring VR tv sets) it seems like Nintendo's move into a gyroscope gives them the heads up for creating interfaces and games for tomorrow's high-def smell-o-vision world.

peace,
A

nICO · . Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 120 Location: WVUSA

aljones15 · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:24 am Post subject:

"The government hopes that by supporting the project, it can help Japan maintain its technological edge. "

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/GH17Dh02.html

It's a pretty standard thing to do, by requiring it it means the first japanese electronics company to accomplish it gets the biggest piece of the pie. Taken Japan's depressed economy and basically sluggish all around recovery over the past 15 years (their still trillions in debt right now with an escalating unemployment rate and several major companies bankrupt) it's just a ploy to increase domestic spending which is what Japan is touting as their big savoir for their businesses right now, that the Japanese will spend more on Japanese products now that Samsung and China and Taiwain are ruling the world of disposable, well designed, electronics. South Korea is requiring that all cars run on Hydrogen by 2015 or something too if I remember, China's got solar rooves and sustianble design etc. It's average Asian leap froggery. nothing special.

peace,
A

aljones15 · Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:26 am Post subject:

I remember reading one article on this that mentioned that every TV set had to have smell too. it's strange the western media reports on this and the korean over-hyped holy fuck their getting ahead of us again reports are pretty different.

peace,
A

player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Put down your controller. Goddamnit.

http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2005/12/06/how-the-revolution-controller-might-work-part-1-swords/

This makes me wet my pants.

Seriously.

Think about sitting there playing Halo 2 twiddling your thumbs.

And then think about sitting there playing a first person shooter swinging your arms around.

It's so fucking Miyamoto and so fucking genius. I can just see the commercials. College kids playing videogames. One person with a PS3, one person with an XB360, and a person with a Revolution. This is when Nintendo needs a badass "haha, you're lame" marketing campaign. What're Sony and MSoft going to do in return? Talk about HDTVs and processor specs? At the end of every Revolution ad there should just be the goofy Dell guy twiddling his thumbs in the air...
_________________
Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

dhex · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:59 am Post subject:

does ddr get people laid?

no.

therefore, etc and so forth.
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player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

I thought the whole point of The Revolution (man I wish they'd announce the final name so I could stop saying that) was that now no one will need to cater to "college kids".

Wes, do you have the Onimusha sword controller? Possibly placed below the SuperScope on your pickup's gunrack?

dhex · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject:

what i mean, more baldly, is that this poses no threat to sony or microsoft in terms of "setting the world on fire."

i.e. waving your arms at a tv is not cool. it takes the uncool factor of games and magnifies it exponentially. (if you doubt this, go watch some larp'ers some day) perhaps there is a casual games market not touched by the eye toy but just clamoring for this, but i'd not bet on it.
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dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

I'm a bit more optimistic, though I will admit I was too embarassed to start a fire in Lost in Blue on a plane.

See you have to blow real hard into the DS microphone.

player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

I don't think the uncool factor of playing videogames is that it's not real. The uncool factor of playing videogames is that it's so far removed from reality that it's uncool. My evidence: ordinary people are interested in "realistic" looking games. But then they look at the interface and they don't want to play it.
_________________
Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:30 pm Post subject:

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Mister Toups · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:37 pm Post subject:

People who are envisioning playing Zelda by actually swinging the controller as the sword are retarded, and I'll be willing to be that Zelda for the Rev. will not feature that as a control mechanism.
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dessgeega · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject:

Mister Toups · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:55 pm Post subject:

Which isn't to say it won't be fun to have some kind of Time Crisis esque Sword Slashing game, just that... you know, that's not what will vindicate the system's existence.
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:50 pm Post subject:

Mister Toups · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:03 pm Post subject:

player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Actually, I have a feeling that the next Zelda game will feature a lot of sword swinging and bow pulling and grappling hook aiming... in fact, although it is quite unfortunate, I believe that the direction that Nintendo is pulling the Zelda direction is through the usage of the various items that Link has.

I mean, it'd be neat in that Miyamoto student kind of way... and well... that's what they're doing, right?
_________________
Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:08 pm Post subject:

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

Maybe you make gestures to guide your little fairy helper around?

They said they were shelving Zelda anyway, dude.

kuzdu · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject:

Does anyone have any visions about how movement is going to work with the Revolution controller? I mean, it seems to me that it's pretty intuitive to press forward and move forward, etc, on a regular analog. Even computers usually break down and use directional keys for movement in anything but top-down or point-and-click games. I understand that there's the nunchaku attachment, so because that action (3D movement through space) is pretty basic, should we just start thinking about the remote with the nunchaku attachment as the "standard" controller?

I guess this sort of connects to the "how will the new Mario play" topic from another thread.

Mister Toups · Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:00 pm Post subject:

I'd actually like to see Zelda go first person.
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

david · . Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 170 Location: b, md

david · . Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 170 Location: b, md

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

OBJECTION!
There is NO WAY to tell what power Kirby is wielding without seeing his SPECIAL HAT!

Nintendo would NEVER allow a Kirby game in this day and age without SPECIAL HATS!

YOUR GAME IDEA IS IMPOSSIBLE!!

david · . Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 170 Location: b, md