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game description terms moratorium thread
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dhex
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject: game description terms moratorium thread Reply with quote

"dumbed down"

it's almost never actually used to describe making something more stupid, but rather "simplified" coupled with "people who like this game are dumb. "stripped of depth" would be far more accurate and less ad hominem-y. which i know misses the point, but still.

there was another one but i forgot.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"[AAA Game Title] Killer"

It's not actually describing anything. This is just PR Speak. Quit it!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Descent! The DOOM killer!
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The next level"
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thrill ride!
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the word "insane".

i'm looking at you, ign.
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it too soon to say "HD era"?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nana Komatsu wrote:
Is it too soon to say "HD era"?


Yes. But "Game 3.0" should definitely be banned.

-Wes
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for me, "eye candy". It has a vague definition, sure, but even with context I can never tell whether it's complimentary or a put down.

Plus it goes straight to my eye-thighs.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nana Komatsu wrote:
Is it too soon to say "HD era"?
How about "next gen" while we're at it?

edit: also "shitload of fuck" it may only stop one man, but he needs to stop.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, since the PS3 has officially been launched in every country, the next-gen is the current gen.

The next-gen is dead, long live the next-gen!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Fanboy" only useful in ad-hominem/straw-man situations.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Fun."

Not to be pretentious, it doesn't need banned entirely. It's just that if you can't explain what makes a game fun to you, you don't need to be writing about videogames.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Comparison to rare game the journalist and most readers have never played.

"It's good but it's no Radiant Silvergun" frx
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Blast processing"

this phrase started many fights in the schoolyard when none of us little brats didn't even know what it really was in the first place.

We just knew the Genesis had it and the SNES didn't.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pijaibros wrote:
We just knew the Genesis had it and the SNES didn't.


genesis does what nintendon't.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

extrabastardformula wrote:
"It's good but it's no Yo Bro"


fixed
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that both phrases "with flying colors" (ubiquitous) and "succeeds flying-colorfully" (Tim Rogers, Gears of War review) should go into retirement or hibernation.

I read a lot on Action Button this morning. I agree with a lot of the content, but find most of the writing unbearable. Branching out away from the miserably written, vague, ejaculatory IGN style is great and all, but was pompous tedium steeped in a cynical view of all pop culture really the way to do it?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swimmy wrote:
"Fun."

Not to be pretentious, it doesn't need banned entirely. It's just that if you can't explain what makes a game fun to you, you don't need to be writing about videogames.

You know I'm basically exploring the thesis that this word doesn't mean anything for the next issue. I was going to put that here, but I decided to hold off until I can prove it. I have about a dozen interviews with game developers on the subject including Suda 51.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah. i actually make a point of avoiding using the word "fun" to describe games (regardless of whether i actually consider them to be fun or not) because it's so ambiguous and doesn't really tell anything about the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fun games are fun.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Too hard/too easy" --This is a totally useless description 99% of the time. I don't think it's too much to ask for game reviewers and megaton sites to post videos of them playing on the game's highest difficulty before declaring it too hard or too easy--we need something to compare their statement with. If they think God Hand is too hard, then there should be a video of them playing the game by trying to mash the square button and flailing about wildly.

"Replay value" --I'm not sure what this means, anymore: that the game would be fun if you played it again, or there is extra content available for playing the game again, or there is extra content available "post-game" after the credits roll, or the game's events are somewhat randomly generated and thus each game is different, or...what, you know? Saying a game has a lot of replay value doesn't tell you much. The replay value term meaning of Nethack is different from the replay value term meaning of Chrono Trigger is different from the replay value term meaning of Dragon Quarter is different from the replay value term meaning of Master of Orion 2 is different from the replay value term meaning of Gungrave: Overdose.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fun bun can't be undone.

how about "mindblowing" ?

all you're basically saying is "holy shit i smoke a lot of weed and hang out in my underwear." (because you see the same terms in reviews of stoner rock albums).

see also: "bong-rattling bass"
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TOLLMASTER wrote:
"Too hard/too easy" --

"Replay value" --

Too Hard/Too Easy: This is a valid statement IF it valified. I.E.: "I played through the whole game, and because the controls were too complicated, and the enemies had too much health, the game was just too hard for me." On the other hand, I just did this on a review about a certain casual game: "The game was a cakewalk for the entire time up to the half way point. I only died once, and I'm pretty sure it's because I wasn't paying attention. At about the half way point there was actually a challenging puzzle, but rather than take the route of becoming an actual challenge the game started to recycle old levels and stayed just too easy and unchallenging."

Bold statements that aren't valified by reason are useless. Too hard/easy is just a modifier and personal feeling. By stating that a game is too hard that isn't saying anything and if it's used like a fact it's even more useless.

Replay value: yeah, you sum it up well. There's lots of reasons for replaying a game, and just to say that GAME X has a 8.5 replay value is about as useful as calling it fun.

dhex wrote:
fun bun can't be undone.

No, but it can't be taken as a word solely used to describe something. The justification of a game’s value or score shouldn’t depend on a word as useless as “fun.”
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, i see that.

on the other hand--just kidding.

it's difficult because some games are just plain fun (katamari) while others are enjoyable for more masochistic reasons (tile crawl).
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swimmy wrote:
"Fun."

Not to be pretentious, it doesn't need banned entirely. It's just that if you can't explain what makes a game fun to you, you don't need to be writing about videogames.

Does this mean "Not fun" should also be stricken? I think simply saying a game is "not fun" is pretty much enough of a review to talk me out of something in most cases. It's certainly possible to use the phrase "not fun" while talking about a game that's worth playing, but simply saying something is "not fun" with no explanation behind it tells a lot about a game's worth.

-Wes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
simply saying something is "not fun" with no explanation behind it tells a lot about a game's worth.

So, by me saying that GRAW isn't fun is now enough of a reason for you to get off my back?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
SuperWes wrote:
simply saying something is "not fun" with no explanation behind it tells a lot about a game's worth.

So, by me saying that GRAW isn't fun is now enough of a reason for you to get off my back?


If you played it I'd get off of your back!

Oh yeah! Also to have a valid opinion about a game you need to at least play a demo.

-Wes
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
Swimmy wrote:
"Fun."

Not to be pretentious, it doesn't need banned entirely. It's just that if you can't explain what makes a game fun to you, you don't need to be writing about videogames.

Does this mean "Not fun" should also be stricken? I think simply saying a game is "not fun" is pretty much enough of a review to talk me out of something in most cases. It's certainly possible to use the phrase "not fun" while talking about a game that's worth playing, but simply saying something is "not fun" with no explanation behind it tells a lot about a game's worth.

-Wes

Well, we're talking about overkill here. Like I said, it shouldn't be banned entirely, and neither should "not fun." But if you really want to risk it, throw all analysis out the window, say a game is "not fun" and leave it at that, you'd better be damn sure of yourself.

For example, I could review every MMORPG ever made right here: "They're not fun." Yet millions of people play them anyway, some of them so much that they fucking die, so there's something seriously wrong with my review.

It's a balancing act, a know-your-audience kind of thing. The problem with "fun" is that it means a million things, so to say that a game is "fun" presumes a uniform audience. This is almost never the case with gamers. What you're saying, I think, is that if a reviewer can do so successfully, it's powerful. And it is. But a statement like that needs to be far removed from genre-hate, fan-hate, etc., which is almost never the case these days.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
Does this mean "Not fun" should also be stricken? I think simply saying a game is "not fun" is pretty much enough of a review to talk me out of something in most cases. It's certainly possible to use the phrase "not fun" while talking about a game that's worth playing, but simply saying something is "not fun" with no explanation behind it tells a lot about a game's worth.

I'd prefer to strike "not fun" while leaving "fun."

Saying something is not fun without explanation doesn't say anything about a game's worth. Schindler's List is not a fun movie, Ethan Frome is not a fun book, and The Third of May 1808 is not a fun painting, but that doesn't say anything about their worth.

The assumption that all games should be fun is one that needs to be removed. It's one of the things that keeps videogames in the ghetto apart from "new media" art. Using "not fun" as a blatant negative, instead of a neutral descriptor, should definitely be banned.

If you want to criticize a game for being "not fun," you need to explain why you think the game should be "fun," and why its failure to be so is disappointing.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tablesaw wrote:
The Third of May 1808 is not a fun painting


Balderdash.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Schindler's List is not a fun movie


double balderdash!

in all seriousness, i think it's time for "FUCK ART LET'S PLAY" shirts - unless they've been done already?

we'll have plenty of boring "message" games in due time, as "game design" becomes the next "performance studies" degree track. personally, i'd rather have a silent hill 2 that's playable than "things fall apart: the game" but i could see a world where both exist (though the more likely answer is that neither will necessarily exist, or exist very well, but we'll probalby still have games that are fun, praise jesus.)

edit: to clarify, i think the whole path of a message game (or whatever you'd like to call "not fun" serious games envisioned above) is at odds with the prevailing intersection of technology and desire to create more open sandboxes. less top down control, rather than more of it, if only in games.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhex wrote:
to clarify, i think the whole path of a message game (or whatever you'd like to call "not fun" serious games envisioned above) is at odds with the prevailing intersection of technology and desire to create more open sandboxes. less top down control, rather than more of it, if only in games.

So: Shadow of the Colossus sans colossi?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhex wrote:
we'll have plenty of boring "message" games in due time, as "game design" becomes the next "performance studies" degree track. personally, i'd rather have a silent hill 2 that's playable than "things fall apart: the game" but i could see a world where both exist (though the more likely answer is that neither will necessarily exist, or exist very well, but we'll probalby still have games that are fun, praise jesus.)

Oh, we'll always have games that are fun, and we'll always have art that is Serious. But maintaining a division between what is fun and not-fun is unhealthy in any medium, whether it's saying that games should be fun or that Literature should have Redeeming Social Value.

Since we're approaching things from the "fun" side of the continuum of interactivity, we need to be aware of cutting off the not-fun side. Artists and academics are rhetorically more open to removing the distinction, but it's often rationalized in other ways (looking down on commercial products or viewing popularity as merely a product of the ignorant masses).

dhex wrote:
edit: to clarify, i think the whole path of a message game (or whatever you'd like to call "not fun" serious games envisioned above) is at odds with the prevailing intersection of technology and desire to create more open sandboxes. less top down control, rather than more of it, if only in games.

The realm of not-fun games needn't be limited to "message games." Even if it is, there's no reason that a message game can't be more simulationist than narrative, exerting bottom-up control instead. Grand Theft Auto: Kobayashi Maru.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tablesaw wrote:
Saying something is not fun without explanation doesn't say anything about a game's worth. Schindler's List is not a fun movie, Ethan Frome is not a fun book, and The Third of May 1808 is not a fun painting, but that doesn't say anything about their worth.

If you want to criticize a game for being "not fun," you need to explain why you think the game should be "fun," and why its failure to be so is disappointing.


But woah ho, there's a huge difference between saying something like, YuGiOh: The Dualists of the Roses isn't fun and saying that Silent Hill 2 isn't fun. One of these needs an essay explaining why it's ok for it not to be fun, and the other one - were it more words than just "not fun" - would basically begin with not fun and continue by making fun of how Konami actually thought it would be a good idea to reimagine the YuGiOh storyline and characters using the War of Roses as a setting. I wish I was joking, but the characters are actually members of either The House of York or The House of Lancaster. It's the antithesis of fun.

-Wes
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The realm of not-fun games needn't be limited to "message games." Even if it is, there's no reason that a message game can't be more simulationist than narrative, exerting bottom-up control instead.


while there isn't at face value any reason why a "message game" (for lack of a better term) doesn't have to be top-down, allowing player control to a large degree dilutes any kind of message. you have to be able to control your audience to make any kind of specific point (books, film, etc)

i remember when san andreas came out there was an essayist/blogger type who said the whole game was a blatant satire of money and commercialism, and that furthermore, he'd been emailed by people at rockstar who were ecstatic that someone had finally "gotten it."

i had a feeling the guy was lying (if only because he was a douchebag) but even if that was rockstar's intent (or their game design folk's intent) it seems to have been entirely lost. you can't really stay "on message" if your game world allows people to go off the rails. which in my eyes is a good thing, but definitely not conducive to bringing the noise.

there may or may not be analogues to something like the shitty control scheme in silent hill 2, to further underscore that james is not a badass. a legitimate, coherent, "unfun" element, if you will. though i did think the final result was definitely fun (sans qualifiers) as not all elements of "fun" have to be pretty or happy. fun can be gore-filled and fucked up.

hardcore war simulators/wargamers may also be appropriate to mention, though they almost all take some corner-cutting around historical drudgery to streamline the simulation, which is indeed fun for those folk.

i think my distaste for message games is largely based in two things - "message" over general quality and "message" over design and playability. i wouldn't want to play a message game i agreed with, either, unless it was secondary to the game itself. i.e. a war on drugs game where you play a cop who just can't possibly win or even staunch the street price of drugs as a general background of despair versus "CIA IS MAKING CRACK: THE GAME."

Quote:
I wish I was joking, but the characters are actually members of either The House of York or The House of Lancaster. It's the antithesis of fun.


this may further devalue any kind of credibility i have left, but this sounds like a lot of fun.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhex wrote:
Quote:
The realm of not-fun games needn't be limited to "message games." Even if it is, there's no reason that a message game can't be more simulationist than narrative, exerting bottom-up control instead.


while there isn't at face value any reason why a "message game" (for lack of a better term) doesn't have to be top-down, allowing player control to a large degree dilutes any kind of message. you have to be able to control your audience to make any kind of specific point (books, film, etc)

Obviously, the "message" would have to be different. The kinds of messages that would be best conveyed by games simulating worlds would be relational and rule-based, because that's what game worlds are. Whether through attempting to build in a perceived accuracy (a government-running game where intervention in the economy is designed to be less advantageous focusing on international issues) or by rigging behind-the-scenes manipulation (the cop's actions should have a positive effect on the simulated world, but the game compensates to make the drug trade appearunimpeded), in learning the game and the world, the player must learn the rule and the "message."

dhex wrote:
SuperWes wrote:
I wish I was joking, but the characters are actually members of either The House of York or The House of Lancaster. It's the antithesis of fun.


this may further devalue any kind of credibility i have left, but this sounds like a lot of fun.

I have to agree that this sounds great, and I will now probably buy the game if I see it. Dhex, you will also probably appreciate that, according to Wikipedia, the head of York is Christian Rosenkreuz.

So far, Wes, your description of this game is that it's "not fun" to you for vague, undefined reasons, but everything else is totally awesome. You're going to have to do better than that.

Besides, my point is that a game shouldn't have to "explain[] why it's okay not to be fun," I think we should be able to give a game like Silent Hill 2 or Killer 7 or Galatea the benefit of the doubt if it isn't fun. The onus should be on the critic to explain why she feels the game isn't fun and why she thinks it should be. Because that responsibility helps the reader actually learn about the game and the validity of the critique.

If we do things your way, saying that all games are essentially and necessarily fun, then we cut off a whole range of existing and possiblw games, and put ourselves in the awkward position of justifying each game that falls outside of that realm when we feel that it has "worth" despite being "not fun." And then we get into this bizarre identity crisis where we start doubting that games journalism has any business reviewing games.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought killer7 was very fun ;_;
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Dhex, you will also probably appreciate that, according to Wikipedia, the head of York is Christian Rosenkreuz.


what the fuck japan?

actually, one could probably make a living in certain paranoid circles explaining bits and pieces of cultural nonsense that game designers glom onto their titles, especially in japan. in this case you're training young children to yield to occultism and its pervasive use of sexual perversion, and doing so out in the open!

SEE HOW MUCH CONTEMPT THEY HAVE FOR YOU?


ok i gotta work on that.



also, whomever designed that blog needs to have their eyes fucked out by an angry rhino. he also took a really roundabout way of saying "i'm mad cause i like this game," which is pretty lame.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tablesaw wrote:
So far, Wes, your description of this game is that it's "not fun" to you for vague, undefined reasons, but everything else is totally awesome. You're going to have to do better than that.

Besides, my point is that a game shouldn't have to "explain[] why it's okay not to be fun," I think we should be able to give a game like Silent Hill 2 or Killer 7 or Galatea the benefit of the doubt if it isn't fun. The onus should be on the critic to explain why she feels the game isn't fun and why she thinks it should be.


I think you're misunderstanding me here. The game shouldn't have to "explain why it's okay not to be fun," but the critic should. Obviously I think it's ok for a game not to be fun as long as it understands that a traditional notion of "fun" isn't its goal.

My example was chosen mostly for joke value, but I have actually played the Dualists of the Roses. They're not trying to say something by using the War of the Roses as a backdrop, they're doing so for the same reason a fanfic writer might try setting a Transformers story in the wild west. Not sure why that is, but that's probably why I don't write (or read) fanfics. The entire story exists independent from the game through low-budget anime talking head sequences, and the game itself consists of a messy card battle system with vaguely defined rules and more randomness than strategy. It's... (wait for it) not fun!

Basically I agree with you in theory, but I also think that you shouldn't have to walk on eggshells when talking about a shitty game. When something sucks it says a lot to say that it isn't fun. Silent Hill isn't particularly fun, but it definitely doesn't suck. BeyBlade: Super Tournament Battle isn't particularly fun either, but the difference is it's fucking terrible. There's a difference here in that one of these really doesn't gain much from thorough criticism.

Basically, the term "not fun" changes depending on the context. If you say, "Silent Hill 2 isn't fun, but it's something every gamer should endure," it says just as much as "BeyBlade: Super Tournament Battle is the videogame version of meeting with your elementary school friends on the playground and playing with Tops. This sounds like it could be interesting if done well, but in this case it isn't and the result is that it's just not fun." "Not fun" is the most important part of each of these reviews, and both are valid criticisms.

-Wes
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if this is still open, i'd like to nominate "old school" and "hardcore".
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seconded, and nominating "gameplay," and "_____ on steroids."
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy Bacon Lips wrote:
nominating "gameplay"

Agreed! I've been thinking about it lately and "gameplay" really means nothing in most contexts. Go to the gamefaqs messageboards and those contexts increase 100-fold.

While we're on that topic, I'd like to recommend 90% of the uses of the word "graphics." It's not worth mentioning unless they're notably good, and even then it's usually more the style and art direction that are impressive than the graphics themselves.

-Wes
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and "_____ on steroids."


or "_____ on acid"

or "if ______ and _______ had a baby..."

edit: i understand the term "hardcore" to mean "very difficult, requires dedication and repeated playthroughs to learn, unforgiving gameplay" etc. but on the other hand i also take it to mean "very much up its own ass."
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
Crazy Bacon Lips wrote:
nominating "gameplay"

Agreed! I've been thinking about it lately and "gameplay" really means nothing in most contexts. Go to the gamefaqs messageboards and those contexts increase 100-fold.

While we're on that topic, I'd like to recommend 90% of the uses of the word "graphics." It's not worth mentioning unless they're notably good, and even then it's usually more the style and art direction that are impressive than the graphics themselves.

-Wes


It's really weird to hear someone talk about "gameplay" and use the word over and over again. It instantly reveals how meaningless the word is. I remember when I was standing in line for the Wii, and some guy was talking about FF7, and he kept yammering about how "it's just got such awesome gameplay. The gameplay? It's just . . . so. Good. You know. I can't get over this gameplay." What is it? When is the game NOT being played (haha Xenosaga LOL)? Yes, that movie certainly is a series of static images. It works so well, it just looks like it's moving, you know? Even though it isnt'? That movie has very good movement. All of these books I'm reading are just FULL OF WORDS that can be READ and UNDERSTOOD. It's mindblowing! This book has really good reading. What? Do you mean control? Flow? Those are words that possess meaning. Use those instead.

I was reading the back of the box on my Stella DVD set and one of the blurbs said "like the marx brothers on acid!" and that made me sort of sad.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe gameplay means = the sum total of my physical interactions with the game?

or just "i had a really cool time, yo."
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Funnily enough, I often use "gameplay" in the context of my work, which is, uh, working on games.

For sports games, the context becomes a bit easier to deal with -- "gameplay" here means when you're actually playing a simulated game of basketball/hockey/football/etc., as opposed to various options, features, modes, etc. This separation makes sense for us for two reasons:

1. It takes different skills to test gameplay vs. the rest of the game. Front-end and standards testing involves a great deal of attention to detail and persistence, whereas gameplay testing requires the tester to have a high level of knowledge about the sport being simulated and an ability to leverage this knowledge through our bug database in order to write effective, efficient bugs.
2. The programmers who deal with what happens "in-game" are typically different than the programmers who handle creating menus, writing network code, putting the music in the game, etc. So it makes sense to categorize our bugs and mailing lists along these lines.

I can see the issue in the context of playing games as opposed to developing them, mainly because the stuff that isn't "in-game" isn't nearly as important to the people playing the game as it is to the people who are making it.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scratchmonkey wrote:
Funnily enough, I often use "gameplay" in the context of my work, which is, uh, working on games.

For sports games, the context becomes a bit easier to deal with -- "gameplay" here means when you're actually playing a simulated game of basketball/hockey/football/etc., as opposed to various options, features, modes, etc. This separation makes sense for us for two reasons:

1. It takes different skills to test gameplay vs. the rest of the game. Front-end and standards testing involves a great deal of attention to detail and persistence, whereas gameplay testing requires the tester to have a high level of knowledge about the sport being simulated and an ability to leverage this knowledge through our bug database in order to write effective, efficient bugs.
2. The programmers who deal with what happens "in-game" are typically different than the programmers who handle creating menus, writing network code, putting the music in the game, etc. So it makes sense to categorize our bugs and mailing lists along these lines.

I can see the issue in the context of playing games as opposed to developing them, mainly because the stuff that isn't "in-game" isn't nearly as important to the people playing the game as it is to the people who are making it.


It's ok in that context, but in a critical context it's mostly worthless. Not totally, but mostly. If you say, "the story in Half-Life is told during the gameplay," that actually gets across a point, but if you're placing an adjective before the word that's pretty fucked up. "It's got awesome gameplay!" means not a whole lot. Same as "bad gameplay," "slow gameplay," etc.

-Wes
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like to use the phrase "the emergent narrative of the gameplay"; that's mainly because it contains three words that make people's heads explode in semantic rage. It would be better put just saying that the real story of a game is the series of actions during a single game session; that just isn't as provacative though.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how did we miss "revolutionary"?
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