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antitype
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 Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:19 pm Post subject: Building a PC — please recommend good parts at good prices! |
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Yeah, so since I'm making a pretty good buck right now and my financial obligations are minimal, I'm thinking of putting together a new PC sooner than later. I'll start buying parts right away, in fact, and after two or three months tops I should have something pretty nice. I'd like to spend $700-800 maximum — if I could build a reasonably classy gaming machine for $600, that'd be even better. I'm pretty much looking at a 120+ gig HD, 1 or 2 gigs of RAM, and a fairly high-end yet affordable video card, etc.
Thanks!
Cross-posted here from SB 'cause I don't think dhex would see my post over there!
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Redeye
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Building a PC — please recommend good parts at good pric |
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| antitype wrote: | Yeah, so since I'm making a pretty good buck right now and my financial obligations are minimal, I'm thinking of putting together a new PC sooner than later. I'll start buying parts right away, in fact, and after two or three months tops I should have something pretty nice. I'd like to spend $700-800 maximum — if I could build a reasonably classy gaming machine for $600, that'd be even better. I'm pretty much looking at a 120+ gig HD, 1 or 2 gigs of RAM, and a fairly high-end yet affordable video card, etc.
Thanks!
Cross-posted here from SB 'cause I don't think dhex would see my post over there! |
Do you mean from scratch?
I don't think you could do that for even $800.
You could try getting a "Value" computer and adding memory and vidcard.
There would be a problem disabling the onboard graphics crap so the card would work, and eventually the crappy power supply/cheap mobo would lead to a fried mobo.
That's what I get for being a lazy prick and just grabbing the top emachines off the shelf.
I even knew better.
My own fault.
You get what you pay for.
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antitype
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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I'm pretty sure I could. At least that's what people who've done so, y'know, told me.
And yeah, I'm really not interested in buying some cheap thing with integrated hardware that I won't be able to upgrade later.
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Redeye
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| antitype wrote: | I'm pretty sure I could. At least that's what people who've done so, y'know, told me.
And yeah, I'm really not interested in buying some cheap thing with integrated hardware that I won't be able to upgrade later. |
I suppose if you already had a case and peripherals and OS discs, etc. you could actually just barely pull it off. When I did my calculations I went for high end of medium, avoiding the really good looking deals.
Mobo, HD, GFX card, 2GB mem, 500w PS came out to $750-$950.
I was lazy and probably overly cautious after getting burned, so Its totally possible that I could have gone cheaper.
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GSL
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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I've been doing a lot of shopping with Newegg.com recently, and if you're trying to put together a new PC on a budget I definitely recommend buying from them.
$700-800 could be feasable, depending on the parts you have, as RedEye mentioned. If you're really on a tight budget, the best thing to do is sit down and make a list of every component you want to replace, and every one you NEED to replace. Obviously, if you're doing a major processor upgrade, you may need a new motherboard and a different type of RAM. But what about things like your soundcard or videocard (assuming they work with the new motherboard)--do you need to replace them right away, or will they last you a while longer on the faster system with more memory? And while a 120+GB hard drive would be very nice, is there any immediate reason to throw out your (presumably) perfectly functional current drives?
This is the approach that I, at least, take to upgrading. It's sortof a constant process in which I make do with as many old but perfectly functional components as possible until money or necessity make it possible to get that next shiny new component. |
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antitype
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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I'm building a new PC from scratch. The one I'm using now is not exclusively my own.
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Redeye
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| antitype wrote: | | I'm building a new PC from scratch. The one I'm using now is not exclusively my own. |
So you need case, cd/dvd/burner drive or drives, keyboard, monitor, graphics card, motherboard/cpu, memory, power supply, mouse, printer, possibly scanner/fax/etc.
For $700-$800? With secondhand parts and shady parts... maybe.
But you almost certainly won't be playing HL2 even at reduced settings.
I'm gonna look into this, because my T6420 that I unwisely acquired was $600 or so with rebate sans monitor, printer, scanner. I could play HL2, Oblivion, etc. at medium settings.
(It is/was also upgradeable to some degree.)
Maybe, just maybe it could be done without too much corner-cutting. Much luck and shrewd hunting required to pull it off.
I'll make an estimate tommorrow.
P.S.
You could just go to an independent computer shop and ask about custom systems. Stress that you just want the parts. Do all the install/etc. yourself.
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antitype
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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OK, so the computer I'm using now, with 512 mb of RAM and a GeForce 6200, and which runs HL2 just fine at medium to high detail settings, even being three years old, is something I couldn't build on my own for $800? I could buy a new computer from Dell for that much and it would still be a big improvement over this one, so I don't believe that.
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dhex
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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1000 is more reasonable. otherwise you're yolking yourself to a video card that won't even be able to handle the last generation of dx9 games.
my real recommendation is wait a year and save your money, and then when dx10 cards are more common, build a new system around vista. otherwise you're just painting yourself into a corner, to some degree.
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Redeye
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| antitype wrote: | | OK, so the computer I'm using now, with 512 mb of RAM and a GeForce 6200, and which runs HL2 just fine at medium to high detail settings, even being three years old, is something I couldn't build on my own for $800? I could buy a new computer from Dell for that much and it would still be a big improvement over this one, so I don't believe that. |
I was thinking about leaving in room for upgrades.
Also, I was drawing on personal experience with on-board video chips and shared video ram. Wasn't really putting all the pieces together.
On second thought you probably can pull it off.
Case: $30-$150. Let's say $60.
CD/DVD/CD Burner combo drive: $40-$100 Lets say $50
CPU: varies greatly. Decent one for $70-$150. Let's say $100
Motherboard: varies greatly. Decent one for $100.
Or get the CPU and motherboard bundled. Sometimes with an older graphics card- not onboard chips.
Power supply: possibly get it bundled with the case. I'd be paranoid and pay $60+ for a decent 500w+ source.
Memory: 1 GB for $100.
Hard Drive: 200 GB for $100.
Keyboard: $20-$30
Mouse: $20-$30
Bundled Kb/Mouse: $30-$40
Printer: with scanner and fax built in $130. You can go much lower for bare bones.
Monitor: $100-$200. Say 17" LCD for $150.
Speakers: $10. Good enough for me.
Sound Card: maybe skip it or go $10-$30.
Total without OS discs: $900 or so.
Just skimp a little to get it down to $800.
Shit: forgot the graphics card. Just get one of the bundled mobos- obviously not one with onboard vidchips.
Thanks for getting me to look at this stuff. In a few months I'll be doing a little shopping.
Edit: Dhex has it right, wait on the vidcard. Use a bundled on or get a cheap one.
I had originally thought of dropping $250 on this.
Edit: olde! Probably way cheaper now. That review was from '05.
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antitype
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| Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| dhex wrote: | 1000 is more reasonable. otherwise you're yolking yourself to a video card that won't even be able to handle the last generation of dx9 games.
my real recommendation is wait a year and save your money, and then when dx10 cards are more common, build a new system around vista. otherwise you're just painting yourself into a corner, to some degree. |
That would probably be ideal, but waiting a year isn't really going to be an option if I'm going to want to have steady access to a computer of my own for, well, most of this year. I'm ready right now, even if that means I'll just have to buy some new parts in another, say, 18 months.
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dhex
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:11 am Post subject: |
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well, i guess that depends on how wedded to pc gaming you are. i'm not anticipating having to move over to vista for at least two years (And to be honest, i'll probably just drop the whole thing then because drm-everything can suck my fucking balls.)
get a pci-e capable board and use the onboard video until you have to upgrade, maybe? i mean, there's really no way to future proof without spending at least some money. if you just want something cheap, well, you can do that.
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antitype
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:16 am Post subject: |
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This is what I'm looking at so far, and it adds up to less than $500:
Case + PSU
Athenatech A602BS.450 Black / Silver Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case ATX 2.01v 450W ( 20+4p, Dual +12V, 6P, 2xSATA Connectors, Dual Fan) Power Supply — $54.99
Motherboard
ASUS A8N5X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX Motherboard — $72.99
Processor
AMD Athlon 64 3700+ San Diego 2.2GHz 1MB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor — $88.50
Memory
G.SKILL 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) System Memory — $89.99
Video card
ASUS EN7600GS SILENT/HTD/256M GeForce 7600GS 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 Video Card — $102.99
Hard drive
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 ST3160811AS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive — $57.99
CD/DVD drive
SAMSUNG Black 18X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 18X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache IDE DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write, LightScribe Technology — $30.99
So I'll still be needing a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and probably a USB expansion...
Oh, and a sound card! Shit.
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dhex
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:20 am Post subject: |
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one recommendation: don't cheap on the power supply.
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antitype
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Redeye
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| antitype wrote: | | Buy a better one separate from the case, then? |
Definitely.
I'm suspicious about how good a deal the cd/dvd/etc. thing is.
I'd spend an extra $20-$30.
That mobo is a bargain.
A bargain. (except no firewire).
Paranoia says no.
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GSL
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| I have yet to see any PC peripherals aside from videocameras and such take advantage of Firewire. The Mac seems to have a struggling affair with the format for external drives, iPod and what have you, but even in that arena it doesn't seem to be all that popular. You almost definitely will not miss it on a PC--and if you do, Firewire add-in cards are super cheap. I got mine for about $15, and it's been collecting dust inside my case for the three years since because I've found nothing to use it with. |
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Redeye
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Greatsaintlouis wrote: | | I have yet to see any PC peripherals aside from videocameras and such take advantage of Firewire. The Mac seems to have a struggling affair with the format for external drives, iPod and what have you, but even in that arena it doesn't seem to be all that popular. You almost definitely will not miss it on a PC--and if you do, Firewire add-in cards are super cheap. I got mine for about $15, and it's been collecting dust inside my case for the three years since because I've found nothing to use it with. |
True. I had a zip drive with firewire and USB, but my computer only had USB.
Then I got a CD Burner and didn't need zip disks anymore.
When (if?) the modular, "caseless" systems come out you'll be able to stack them/arrange the HD/CD-DVD drives/Vidcard modules/etc. like stereo components.
Connected by firewire. Or maybe they'll just use USB 2.0.
It would be kind of funny if the modular stackable system is accessorized by special cases that help you keep all of the components organised. Maybe even with extra fans.
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antitype
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Alright, guys, I've made some pretty big adjustments. This build would run me about $850-1000 (atm) and would presumably last me much longer:
Case
COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-WW Black/Silver Aluminum Bezel, SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case — $49.99
PSU
XClio 450BL ATX 450W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CUL, TUV, CB — $39.99
Motherboard
?
Processor
Intel Pentium D 805 Smithfield 2.66GHz 2 x 1MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Dual Core,EM64T Processor — $93.00
OR
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Conroe 1.86GHz 2M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor — $184
Memory
A-DATA 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory — $202.99
Video card
ASUS EN7600GS SILENT/HTD/512M GeForce 7600GS 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16 Video Card — $135.99
HDD
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200KS 320GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive — $89.99
CD/DVD drive
SAMSUNG Black 18X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 18X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache IDE DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write, LightScribe Technology — $30.99
Monitor
SAMSUNG 941BW Black 19" 4 ms (GTG) DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 500:1 — $217.99/$177.99 after rebate
Please review!
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Redeye
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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That PSU is too small for the monster you have created.
Go 500-600 watts.
For mobo I just looked at the first review of the CPU:
"Other Thoughts: I took my time and selected the following part numbers from Newegg based on user reviews for best price/performance and to be sure it will work: Motherboard: N82E16813131589 Memory: N82E16820231065 Cooling: N82E16835124007 GPU: N82E16814125028 HDD: N82E16822136003 Case: N82E16811144168 I ran both cores at 100% utilization with 55C waterblock temp, 70C on-die temp and ambient of 24C. At Idle, temp of waterblock is 37C, on-die 52C, at abient of 24C. I was lucky, my VID is 1.300. I achieved 3.8Ghz with a Vcore of 1.45V, and set the G.Skill memory to DDR2-760 with 4-4-4-12 timing. I am able to render 13GB AVI from JVC MiniDV to DVD MPEG (4700Kbs, 4:3, 100% quality, 29.7f/s, MPEG audio 224Kbs) twice the speed of realtime (i.e. 1 hour of tape converts in 1/2 hour). This used to take 6-8 hours. 1 hour through scene detection used to take 45 minutes, and is now 6 minutes. Passmark Speedtest shows better ranking than AMD X2 4800+ and Opteron 252. Thank you Victor for the"
This PC is probably way overpowered.
What happened to incremental upgrades?
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Last edited by Redeye on Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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antitype
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Redeye wrote: | That PSU is too small for the monster you have created.
Go 500-600 watts.
For mobo I just looked at the first review of the CPU:
"Other Thoughts: I took my time and selected the following part numbers from Newegg based on user reviews for best price/performance and to be sure it will work: Motherboard: N82E16813131589 Memory: N82E16820231065 Cooling: N82E16835124007 GPU: N82E16814125028 HDD: N82E16822136003 Case: N82E16811144168 I ran both cores at 100% utilization with 55C waterblock temp, 70C on-die temp and ambient of 24C. At Idle, temp of waterblock is 37C, on-die 52C, at abient of 24C. I was lucky, my VID is 1.300. I achieved 3.8Ghz with a Vcore of 1.45V, and set the G.Skill memory to DDR2-760 with 4-4-4-12 timing. I am able to render 13GB AVI from JVC MiniDV to DVD MPEG (4700Kbs, 4:3, 100% quality, 29.7f/s, MPEG audio 224Kbs) twice the speed of realtime (i.e. 1 hour of tape converts in 1/2 hour). This used to take 6-8 hours. 1 hour through scene detection used to take 45 minutes, and is now 6 minutes. Passmark Speedtest shows better ranking than AMD X2 4800+ and Opteron 252. Thank you Victor for the" |
Yeah, I read that, too. Try searching for that motherboard, though.
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Redeye
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| antitype wrote: | | Redeye wrote: | That PSU is too small for the monster you have created.
Go 500-600 watts.
For mobo I just looked at the first review of the CPU:
"Other Thoughts: I took my time and selected the following part numbers from Newegg based on user reviews for best price/performance and to be sure it will work: Motherboard: N82E16813131589 " |
Yeah, I read that, too. Try searching for that motherboard, though. |
Found it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130059
They seem to have changed the end of the number.
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Redeye
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dhex
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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yeah, fuck abit. their quality seems to have gone in the shitter.
i've had good luck with evga, but i know others who haven't.
are you going to be overclocking?
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Nana Komatsu
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Redeye wrote: | When (if?) the modular, "caseless" systems come out you'll be able to stack them/arrange the HD/CD-DVD drives/Vidcard modules/etc. like stereo components.
Connected by firewire. Or maybe they'll just use USB 2.0. |
I'm pretty sure USB 2.0/Firewire are too slow for a video card. |
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Redeye
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Nana Komatsu wrote: | | Redeye wrote: | When (if?) the modular, "caseless" systems come out you'll be able to stack them/arrange the HD/CD-DVD drives/Vidcard modules/etc. like stereo components.
Connected by firewire. Or maybe they'll just use USB 2.0. |
I'm pretty sure USB 2.0/Firewire are too slow for a video card. |
It's a what-if thing. Concept over detail.
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dongle
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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ABSOLUTELY AVOID THE PENTIUM D. it is slow and hot and generally shitty. the core2 is an entirely different architecture, and it happens to be really great.
If you go core2duo, you'll be fine with a Seasonic 330W PSU. I'm running a more or less identical system to the one that you specced out (but with more drives) and I don't even hit 220w. Note also that Seasonics are very power efficient and will save you money and be able to power more than you'd think they'd be able to. That is, you're getting much closer to 330W of power out of it, whereas you might put 450W into other PSUs and get 380W out. Unless you plan on doing a high-end SLI setup witha bunch of harddrives you should be ok.
Also, for $50 you can upgrade your case to the p180. The p180 is silent. The Centurion is FUCKING LOUD. |
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antitype
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| dhex wrote: | | are you going to be overclocking? |
I haven't yet done much research into this, but I'm thinking probably not. What I've read about the components I'm looking at seems to indicate that I most likely won't need to anyway.
dongle, what motherboard are you using? Once I've decided on that I'm going to pretty much start buying a couple of parts with every paycheck and have this project finished within 2 months tops.
| dongle wrote: | | Also, for $50 you can upgrade your case to the p180. The p180 is silent. The Centurion is FUCKING LOUD. |
This one? That's all that comes up when I search for a p180, and that's $110 vs. $50. Seriously worth it?
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antitype
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Redeye
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| antitype wrote: |
| dongle wrote: | | Also, for $50 you can upgrade your case to the p180. The p180 is silent. The Centurion is FUCKING LOUD. |
This one? That's all that comes up when I search for a p180, and that's $110 vs. $50. Seriously worth it? |
B-Stock: Discount p180
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antitype
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dhex
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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i don't think overclocking is necessarily worth it for everyone, but some chips/mobo combos give you more options than others. i need stability over a slight edge in speed so overclocking isn't something i bother with.
i have a lian li case, which is very nice to work with. expensive if you don't grab them on sales though.
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antitype
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, apparently the $75 Antec P180 is about the best I can get without spending tons on something like a Lian Li. Maybe in the future.
This one is pretty awesome-looking.
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Redeye
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| Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| antitype wrote: | Yeah, apparently the $75 Antec P180 is about the best I can get without spending tons on something like a Lian Li. Maybe in the future.
This one is pretty awesome-looking. |
Too obvious, but I had to do it anyway.
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I felt sheer anarchic joy when I ran over my first pedestrian. |
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ApM
Admin Rockstar
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 1210
Location: Ottawa, ON
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Man, you know, you really didn't.
On a scale of 1 to 10, how much of an idiot would I be to get a $300 (shipped) PC from eBay to replace my dead four-year-old 2ghz P4 that was serving me just fine before it exploded? I'm trying not to get anything that would be worse than what I already had, and if the opportunity presents itself, beef up the RAM to at least 1gb. Keep in mind the only PC games I really play these days are indie freeware / shareware. The biggest workout my 3D card would likely get is playing the new Sam and Max games.
The total lack of upgradability of my current dead PC really bugs me. I can't even diagnose it without replacing everything but the disk drives because every other interface is different now. New kinds of RAM, every CPU is coupled with a particular kind of motherboard now, video card interfaces are different. I guess this is how PC performance went up while clock cycles stagnated? |
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Redeye
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Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 986
Location: filth
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ApM wrote: | Man, you know, you really didn't.
On a scale of 1 to 10, how much of an idiot would I be to get a $300 (shipped) PC from eBay to replace my dead four-year-old 2ghz P4 that was serving me just fine before it exploded? I'm trying not to get anything that would be worse than what I already had, and if the opportunity presents itself, beef up the RAM to at least 1gb. Keep in mind the only PC games I really play these days are indie freeware / shareware. The biggest workout my 3D card would likely get is playing the new Sam and Max games.
The total lack of upgradability of my current dead PC really bugs me. I can't even diagnose it without replacing everything but the disk drives because every other interface is different now. New kinds of RAM, every CPU is coupled with a particular kind of motherboard now, video card interfaces are different. I guess this is how PC performance went up while clock cycles stagnated? |
The price seems about right.
I assume you have monitor, printer, etc.
Go for it.
I suppose once that chip-wall is hit, the improvements come from making the parts work with each other better.
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squidlarkin
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Joined: 10 Dec 2005
Posts: 100
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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Are you married to the idea of LCD? Because most people are these days which means CRTs are dirt cheap. Literally. If you live in a major metro area it is not unreasonable to expect to get a perfectly serviceable 17" just for hauling it off, and $20 at the very most. You'll probably get a better image, too. |
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Redeye
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Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 986
Location: filth
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| Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| squidlarkin wrote: |
Are you married to the idea of LCD? Because most people are these days which means CRTs are dirt cheap. Literally. If you live in a major metro area it is not unreasonable to expect to get a perfectly serviceable 17" just for hauling it off, and $20 at the very most. You'll probably get a better image, too. |
Yeah, mine is 17" or 19" and it was free.
It's almost 2 feet long.
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I felt sheer anarchic joy when I ran over my first pedestrian. |
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