The Gamer's Quarter

internisus · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 354

In the near future, I'd like to buy some kind of Macbook or whatever they are calling Mac laptops these days. As I understand it, there are Macbooks and Macbook Pros, and apparantly the difference is like a million dollars, so I could use some help deciding which I really need here. I would want it to have the new OS that's coming out in the Spring. I would need to be able to write, play and edit audio and video, run brand new computer games, have a hundred tabs open at once in browsing wireless internet, do graphic design, make websites, attach peripherals like graphic tablets and barcode readers and scanners, hack the webservers of evil megacorporations, and do all the other awesomely tech-savvy activities that you have probably been doing for years. So do I need the million-dollar model, or is a brand new plain Macbook good enough for me?

The other issue is that I've spent my whole life using Windows. Years ago, I was pretty well aware that many more applications and computer games were compatible with Windows than with Mac OS platforms; is this still the case? In contrast, recently I have come across many attractive programs that are Mac exclusive. I don't know at all what the situation is for games, however. I don't even know, for instance, if I would be able to bring my Steam purchases across.

I am sure that there are Macbook users among us here; do any of you have problems like these?

The reason why I've "decided" on a Mac is that I've never owned one and have been increasingly drawn to Mac-exclusive software and the Tiger OS, as well as the general cleanliness of Mac design and documentation. That may be a somewhat thin reason, though. The other option would be to custom build my own machine, which I think I could learn how to do without completely dying, and use Linux or something. I mean, Linux is really cool, isn't it? I'd turn into an elite coder overnight if I installed Linux, right?

So, you see, I am fairly sheltered and clueless, and any advice would be appreciated.

Ebrey · . Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 38

Windows is the only choice for games; however, recently it became possible to install Windows on Macs.

stotelheim · . Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 118

I think you ought to try out a linux livecd for a while. Amarok and Kopete are pretty valid reasons to switch from windows and there's always wine if you want to play games.

internisus · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 354

ee_emm_ecks · . Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 98 Location: St. Louis

Joe · . Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 179

Custom build a PC (and save a huge amount of money) and put XP on it.

You can make XP look pretty if you want to.
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B coma · . Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 279

Well, Apple switched the manufacturing of it's CPU over to Intel, therefore making it possible to install Windows to it's computer at all.

Apple's computers still ship with their OSX, but if you want you can download a free program called "Bootcamp" to install Windows onto the machine - basically, you partition your drive off and can choose to boot into either from startup.

You will not necessarily be able to run all of the newest and shiniest games on say, a plain old Macbook: even with significant RAM upgrades my girlfriend's Macbook kinda chugged on the lowest setting in HL 2. But, they are a pretty significant upgrade over the last generation of Apple's laptops (pre-intel) and you can play plenty of games that aren't so demanding on them, probably (Sims 2 for instance). I know the Macbook Pro has a little more kick in it's CPU and a better video card, but it's also a lot pricier. As for the current line of Apple desktops: I'm not sure, but they probably benefit quite a bit from not being mobile technology.

it seems like you really like games, though, so unless you are dying to find out what the Mac experience is all about, just build your own computer and get a tech savvy friend to install both windows and linux on it. it's a lot cheaper than being an Apple customer anyway.

stotelheim · . Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 118

Live CD means that you just pop a CD in and then you run the OS from the disc without none of that install bullshit getting in the way. You don't like it you just pop that thing the hell out and go about your business.

And hell I can't tell you shit about wine except the fact that I doubt it works as well as a windows install would but maybe there are things that make up for that such as kopete and amarock?

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

Yeah, the plain macbooks don't handle 3D games so well because they've got integrated video cards.
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internisus · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 354

The suggestions to build my own machine and install XP and/or Linux sound great, but is there any way that I can run Mac-exclusive applications? What about using bootcamp to have the latest version of OS-X in addition to XP and Linux?

B coma · . Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 279

well, there is an OSX emulator for that, but it's slow as all hell even on a modern PC, from what I understand.

stotelheim · . Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 118

Internesisus while it is true that the mac has some sexy ass applications you need to look into such as beagle, amarok, kopete, konversation, and maybe also swiftfox. Or hell if you've got a nvidia or ati card your your pc computer machine you could run compiz or beryl with AIGLX or XGL and just get some mad chubby effects going on that would make a person with a mac think that his computer basically has put on 50 pounds and also developed an oily complexion and started writing harry potter slash fiction. Also kiba dock is supposed to be just ten kinds of sleek, sexy design so don't you forget it if you decide to do a thing.

crispus attucks jr · . Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 23

Instead of buying a Mac, use the Windows version of Inform (the one that does basically the same stuff while looking a little less cool) and instead of Scrivener invest in a notebook and a bulletin board (the kind that thumbtacks go into). That should save you a couple bucks.

shnozlak · . Joined: 05 Jul 2005 Posts: 33

If your using it for college get a laptop, unless games are really important.
Mac has like, the best customer service ever, which is important if your getting a laptop, carry it around and dont plan to replace it for awhile.
Macs now run the core2 duos, which is pretty awsome.
Down side of the Mac is you cant customize it much in ordering so you pay for things your not going to use. Like a DVD-9 burner...
The major upside is it runs XP and nix's, however you can use the command line in OSX anyway, so, yeah.
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dongle · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 290

grumbel · . Joined: 13 Oct 2006 Posts: 27

Mister Toups · Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject:

joe has the best suggestion so far

I think linux would make you cry guardian. it certainly made me very sad.
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Joe · . Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 179

I mean, I don't understand the XP hate. Yeah, blah blah closed source blah blah Micro$oft blah blah. The truth is, since SP2, XP has been damned stable and reliable, and I've yet to have a computer problem that it was responsible for. Compared to the hell that was 95/98, it's a godsend.

What are these amazing Mac-only applications anyway?
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thatbox · . Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 99 Location: nashville / nola

I just got a MacBook Pro and I'm pretty sure I made the right choice. If you need a laptop, I'd suggest it, but if you don't you should probably build your own desktop.

Intel Macs can dual boot into Windows (using Bootcamp) and run Windows almost natively (sans 3D acceleration) inside OS X using virtualization (Parallels). Parallels actually just released a new beta that can supposedly use your Bootcamp partition, so you could theoretically boot into Windows or use the exact same installation from within Tiger.

Plus, bash!!
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Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

BalbanesBeoulve · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 84

Haven't you guy seen those commercials with John Hodgeman? If Guardian wants to do anything remotely creative he NEEDS a mac. PCs are for computer nerds with glasses. I see Guardian more as a messy haired hipster.

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

See the clever thing about that ad is that the actors aren't supposed to represent the users, they represent the computers themselves (by and large the operating systems).
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dongle · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 290

Perseus · . Joined: 24 Sep 2006 Posts: 56

Do you need a notebook, Guardian? If so, then get a MacBook. I've been using an iBook for almost 4 years and I gotta say, this thing beats every Windows-based notebook I've ever seen for sheer lasting power. Almost all of my friends who got Windows notebooks around the same time as me (freshman year of university, basically) have been forced to retire their notebooks because of some problem or the other, but my iBook's still goin strong.

On the other hand, if you don't need a notebook, forget about the cool Mac apps and just build yourself a PC. You can get yourself a totally awesome config for the amount you'd pay for a MacBook.

Besides it being geeky-cool, why does anyone who's not a programmer on a sysadmin need Linux? I survived 4 years of ComSci at uni without it, though I'll concede that Knoppix is an invaluable rescue tool.

Mr. Business · . Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 35

.brainiac. · . Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 7 Location: grizzly island

all operating systems have much potential for instability, depending on what hardware & software you use with them. it mostly comes down to luck: good combo of OS/hardware/software vs bad combo of OS/hardware/software.

edit: personally, my first winXP comp had major major major stability problems relating to motherboard incompatibility with creative soundblaster live. then it had a few months where it was crashing because of nvidia's nv4_disp.dll file. since then i've built two more winXP computers and they can both easily go for weeks without shutting down or rebooting. with light use & limited selection of programs (internet explorer, AIM, WMP, some A/V editors), but still... weeks & weeks... not bad.

also: linux is a mess. highly customizable and there's a million ways to achieve every goal... but uh, as a point & click home/office OS, it's a mess. regular dudes need a baby OS with limited options and standardized everything, for ease of use and ease of discussing how-to-do-this-&-that with other regular dudes.

Mr. Business · . Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 35

Yeah, the Linux world definitely has a problem with standardization. Using the lab computers here at school every machine has at least 3 programs that are all designed to accomplish the same task. Worse, yet, the one that opens upon double-clicking the file is never the one that I want.

Psiga · Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 pm Post subject:

Joe · . Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 179

Mister Toups · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:08 am Post subject:

108 · . Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 60

Get the Macbook Pro. If shit were made of pure gold, my Macbook Pro would be a pure piece of shit.

The software is pretty great!

Mac OSX is pretty nice!

Et cetera!

I can edit videos while listening to music and recording a podcast, all simultaneously! The podcast, however, has to be about listening to music while editing videos, or else the software gets confused, I think.
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Joe · . Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 179

Psiga · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 12:24 am Post subject:

That's the other thing about laptops: The entry-level MacBook and refurb Presario that I showed above would both choke to death on something of Oblivion's caliber. They'd probably even cough and twitch on 1280x720 h.264 files. So take that into consideration. Cheap laptops are not 3D gaming and HDTV machines.

But lemme put it this way: Rather than spend $1200 on an upgraded MacBook that isn't shit, I'd recommend $600 on a PC portable laptop that's just as good, and $600 on a PC workstation desktop that's vastly more powerful.

internisus · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 354

So it seems like I should build my own xp/linux desktop with gaming first in mind and get a macbook for creative purposes. It doesn't sound like there is an effective compromise. However, I suppose that I should make the effort to learn Linux and customize XP before I decide whether or not I really need that Mac besides.

extralife · . Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Posts: 233

Here's the problem with Macs: they are very, very expensive. You could build yourself a desktop PC that is more powerful than the macbook pro for half the price, maxmimum. If you can stomach that pill, yeah, OSX and it's suite of creative programs are nice (and essential for professionals in several fields), but if you can't, there is nothing cheaper and more versitile than a self made PC.

km · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 16

I am a pretty avid linux user over here. I use it when I actually want to get some work done.

However! I must point out that cygwin is available for windows, which adds a nice suite of *nix-y tools. Or, you can go the Services For UNIX route direct from Microsoft.

If you want to head down the linux path, Ubuntu is pretty much the pinnacle of ease-of-use and install. Kubuntu gives you Ubuntu with a different graphical frontend that I personally prefer (but still has all the same stuff available!).

I personally use Gentoo linux. It can be pretty crazy obtuse sometimes. However, it's so insanely customizable, I can't let go of it. With this puppy, you compile everything from source, but the package management system is pretty awesome, so it's not as terrible as you might think! I have to say that it is definately the thing that taught me most about the whole *nix was of doing things. It is a pretty straightforward install, but I wouldn't recommend it as a first time install.

What I'm saying is, if you want to go the linux route, go K/Ubuntu first. If you start to feel constrained, check out Gentoo. There's an amazing and helpful community, and excellent documentation, for the most part.

As far as the whole Mac thing goes... Well, it seems that the systems are having a lot of build quality problems as of late. Not that PCs are immune to this, but when you pay that much more for Apple's "quality" you sort of expect more than screen flickering and mooing noises from your machine. There are some really cool apps out there for it, though.

As far as gaming goes though, nothing beats windows. Linux gaming is pretty much a joke, as much as I hate to admit it, unless you only play ET or Doom3 or something. Strangely, there are a lot of good FPSes for the OS... but windows still crushes it.

Hey, and windows has some pretty cool apps too!

So, in conclusion, I suppose I recommend a dual boot XP/Ubuntu install on a PC. Desktop or laptop is up to your personal needs; linux has made huge strides in the mobile arena lately, so that's not as much of an issue as it used to be. I just find it hard to justify the extra cost of a Mac when it lacks a lot of software, and there are known hardware issues.
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duckzero · . Joined: 28 Nov 2005 Posts: 8 Location: Where THEY live.

I run linux, windows and osx in my house. All of which have their advantages, and i'll break down why I use either of them.

Linux:

I use Ubuntu + XGL + Beryl. I run this on a compaq laptop n600c with a 1.2 gig p3, 512 mb ram (i'm in need of more RAM) and a 32 meg ATI Radeon mobility. So, I heard so much about this ubuntu thing, and i had to give it a shot one day, and honestly i'm hooked. I boot my machine faster than my roomies core duo machine running xp, and I get very easy package (program) installation, great tech support (through the forums or official), I get the eye candy if i want (and I have to say that Beryl is very nice eye candy), finally, I feel as if for the hardware i'm running it on, i'm having the best computer experience possible.

Wine btw, is an OK solution for simple programs. I don't recommend it that much to tell you the truth. Which leads me to windows...

Windows:

Windows has to push a hardware paradigm, which requires upgrades to use their newest OS. Not to say you can't get by on vista with my laptop or anything, but I don't really want to get a fairly powerful machine to get the best out of vista. But, you get everything with Windows, and that's all that really counts, and that includes the good and bad.

I really just use windows for my mp3 player, which uses the incredibly shitty SonicStage.

OSX:

You get a lot of simplicity from osx. Which can make computing great. You can run windows now, emulate it transparently (soon!) and you get the BSD underbelly if you want to be a power user. It's really Linux + Design + money.

So my conclusion is to get a mac. Run linux on your old machine to see if you like it, and keep windows on a separate partition for backup.

sawtooth · . Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 419

oligophagy · . Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 28

xcode is nifty.

i think we also have a lot of pretty cataloging tools.

ALSO:

dongle · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 290

internisus · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 354

Mr. Business · . Joined: 26 Jul 2006 Posts: 35

dongle · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 290

Psiga · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:23 am Post subject:

A pretty slick looking OSX-only game: http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/sketchfighter/
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Joe · . Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 179

Psiga · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 7:28 am Post subject:

stotelheim · . Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 118

I think it's mostly that the programs you use for creative work on the mac look so good that you feel motivated to use them more often.

dongle · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 290

dhex · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 9:00 am Post subject:

i use both for the same stuff (audio and video, adobe cs2 suite, etc) and the pc and the mac versions of illustrator run damn near the same, plus or minus a few hot keys, under win2k and osx. it's the same with the rest of the suite, except that win2k crashes less. neither crash very much, however, so taste and budget reign supreme. (work buys the mac, and the nice cinemascreen, etc) and i work with huge files (500mb +) on a regular basis.

i think the mac ads (hipster v. square) are pretty clever, but they're only effective if you're already a mac fan or know very little about computers (or have had very bad experiences with pcs).

i'm sticking with win2k until it becomes untenable because i doubt my soundcard company is going to come up with vista drivers. the rest of it is all about what your core uses are and what your budget is. if you can afford the mac, and you like it and the design, and you have no pressing need for the extra cash, go that way. if you don't really need a laptop, spending less than 1000 bucks can build you a super duper insane pc of great goodness if you're into the building thing (it's not terribly hard, for the most part, if you plan ahead).

i don't really dig macs in my personal life since apple's general quality control seems to be quite spotty across the board (recent ibook battery recall, which runs my wife's laptop much cooler at a cost of several hours of battery life, down to four or five now; my first gen ipod mini is down to maybe 2.5 hours of battery life after a battery replacement; etc).
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vf10a · . Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 25 Location: England

As someone who uses all three options my opinions are as follows:

Mac: for everyday stuff (internet browsing, chatting, emailing, movie watching, music listening etc.) the mac is aesthetically pleasing and has several features (expose, dock, quicksilver if installed) that make things quicker and easier. However for games it pretty much sucks. I have a mac in my room.

Linux: to be honest I don't understand recommending linux to someone who professes to having little OS knowledge and who wants to run games. It can be frustrating to set up and full of problems that need quite a bit of knowledge to sort out. However installing and running linux can teach you a lot about computing. If you are the sort of person who likes to tinker and invest tie in things it can be fun.

Windows: you probably already know a lot about. The best for games. Will rarely have compatibility issues with software.