The Gamer's Quarter

SuperWes · Last edited by SuperWes on Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total

So I downloaded the demos for NBA Street: Home Court and Def Jam: Icon yesterday and was pretty impressed. They're both incredibly tight and ultra-produced like EA is known and reviled for, but I was mostly impressed that I couldn't figure out how the hell to play either one. The reason? They both do something that's so totally new that I haven't really had any experience with.

The NBA Street demo is 3 on 3 basketball to 7 points, and they let you rematch as many times as you want. I swear I played through 5 rematches and just kept getting worse and worse each time. I think the reason is that I kept trying to play it like NBA Jam, and that only takes you so far. I saw the computer do some absolutely crazy stuff that might be worth learning the game to do. He would roll over his teammate's back and jump into the sky to do a dunk, or dunk the ball then grab it from underneath and put it back in the basket for a second point. It breaks all of the rules of basketball and it really impressed me that the developers are able to think that far outside of the box.

The Def Jam demo was even more nuts. First off, it looks incredible. It might be the best-looking game I've ever seen. The players look absolutely real and as they get more and more beat up, their faces puff up and get scarred in a very realistic way. This is all the more surprising when the gameplay falls so far outside of the realm of realism it can only barely be called a fighting game.

I really, really don't understand how to play Icon yet. I tried one match and kept punching and kicking, but it didn't seem to really involve any strategy. Sometimes a punch would be so strong it would fling my opponent back by 30 feet and sometimes it would barely phase him. So eventually I just started pressing buttons. The RB button does the oddest thing. It stops time and makes your player put his hands out like he's scratching a record. At this point you can play around with the analog sticks and the background will start to explode. It makes no sense at all, but it's crazy enough that it just might work. I'll need to try it some more and get better at it before I decide whether it's fun or just gimmicky, but for now I'm impressed with how different it is from everything else.

So yeah. EA. The innovation masters. Whoda' thunk it?

-Wes
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helicopterp · . Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia

There's a very good video preview of NBA Street: Homecourt over at 1up.com. Among other things, a couple of the editors also love the fact that the game gets them actually caring about where they are playing. A genuine homecourt advantage.

I could see myself buying this game, if I ever bought a 360. I don't buy sports games.
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Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

I've been very interested in the development of Army of Two, and am looking forward to see how far they push that particular two-player concept.
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Ethoscapade · . Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 276

budgets are nice; i remember being blown away by just how playable NBA street was back in the summer of 2000 (and i, of course, had only ever enjoyed nba jam prior to this)

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

I was thinking of downloading that demo based on my NBA Jam nostalgia (granted that was like what, 15 years ago? Fuck!).

EA did say they were all about "fun" now.
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duomo · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 25

Are these demos gold-only for right now?

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

I have played the NBA Street: Homecourt demo. It's kinda fun but I'd need to practice a lot more.

While I do enjoy SSX (I liked it when it was called Tony Hawk Pro Skater) the idea of shoving tricks into every single sport has gotten pretty old fast. That said, I still enjoyed the demo a lot. I never figured out how to do alley-oops correctly or do a double dunk consistently.

Also, why is it that in a street ball game you can only play as NBA players? Isn't that an oxymoron?

Nana Komatsu: EA | HD
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Scratchmonkey · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439

dmauro · . Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 303 Location: Brooklyn

I had a bunch of non-gaming house guests over yesterday and I showed them the Def Jam Icons demo which promptly blew their minds. We were all a little sad to find that there will be no female stars in the full version (as best as I can tell from various sources), but that wasn't enough to deter one of my friends who said "if you don't buy this, I'll buy it for you." The killer visual hook and over-the-top beat-synched explosions have us all impatient for the full release.

SuperWes · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:15 am Post subject:

Matt and I were talking about these games and pretty much decided that it doesn't matter how good they are. He was saying how his brother in law loved the first Def Jam game, defending it by saying stuff like, "look man! You can put Henry Rawlins in a silly hat, how can this not be an awesome game!," which pretty much goes to show that he's not buying it for the game, but for the context. I think there's some oversimplification in there, but there's certainly a bit of truth.

Now take me (and I'd expect most people on these boards). I really like both of the demos, but there's very little chance I'll buy either one at full price, with my only real reasoning being the context. I "don't like sports games" (even if Mario playing Golf, Tennis, Soccer, or Baseball is totally an instant buy), and playing a fighting game with rappers I've never heard of and can't even tell the difference between doesn't really appeal to me.

So if these are the two game markets...

A. People who say they want to buy games with great gameplay, but ignore it when it comes in a context they don't already have an attachment to.

B. People who don't care about gameplay, but want to play a game founded in a context they already have an interest in.

... is EA really doing anything wrong by going down the path they've chosen?

Am I totally off base with this market assessment?

-Wes
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Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

Madden makes them a metric fuckton of money every year, I honestly can't blame them,

That said I enjoyed the Def Jam demo but I thought the fighting was more awkward than Rumble Roses.
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Lasa · . Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 128

I consider myself an Aki fan, thus this game will be very disappointing to me.

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

Also, can someone explain to me how the music affects the fighting in the Def Jam demo? I understand it plays a role, but I couldn't figure out the correlation it had to the game other than being able to do the scratching/mixing.
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dmauro · . Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 303 Location: Brooklyn

But what EA is doing here is roping in the people that are saying "oh shit! T.I. vs. Big Boi, I am so IN!" but also getting others interested with the innovative (in the videogame world anyways) visual style and over-the-top videogamey stuff (crashing helicopters into your opponent).

For sure I'm not paying $60 for this though. I expect to pick it up in the bargain bin down the road.

SuperWes · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:30 pm Post subject:

Scratchmonkey · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

Scratchmonkey · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439

Only 25 to Life was a total bust, was it not?

I'm just saying that I don't think that you actually get sales simply because of that kind of niche marketing. And you certainly wouldn't get repeat sales.

SuperWes · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 1:58 pm Post subject:

hold on. you can put hank rollins in a silly hat?

really?
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helicopterp · . Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia

Scratchmonkey · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439

I think people are unlikely to like an actually shitty game, at least enough people in order to financially support a series, regardless of what we would judge their level of informed-ness in terms of videogames.

However, I also think people will support an average-to-decent game to an extent beyond the actual quality of the game if the game gives them something that they find personally engaging, which would include dressing dude in a silly hat. (And, like dhex, I find the prospect of putting Mr. Rollins in a silly hat pretty amusing.)

Just as a general note, I'm actually very skeptical of the new Def Jam game just because Aki is no longer involved. I really enjoyed NBA Street on the old-gen platforms though, so I have no problem believing the new edition has the potential to be really good.

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

helicopterp · . Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia

That actually pretty much sells me on the game, and goes further to selling me on the Xbox360. I should try to make some money.

They're pretty much why I saw (and didn't hate) the movie ATL, which could never decide whether to be a coming-of-age story, a portrait of socioeconomic distinction in different parts of the city, a roller-skate dance group competition film, or an advertisement for Big Boi's pit-bull kennel. Seriously, that movie was all over the place.

A really weird taunt for T.I. would be: "I want to kiss you everywhere between your knees and waist." I can just imagine him saying that as he stares down the Game.
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The Soviet Onion · . Joined: 05 Dec 2006 Posts: 41

dmauro · . Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 303 Location: Brooklyn

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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Dude, Rick, the guy with the Rollins comment, isn't my brother in law. He's my sisters boyfriend. I would like this noted for all future references.

Scratchmonkey · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439

dhex · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject:

extrabastardformula · . Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 295

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

dmauro · . Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 303 Location: Brooklyn

I don't think it does have an effect on the fighting at all. You can change the music/tigger level-specific events with scratching, but it seems like that is it.

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

So I finally played Def Jam: Icon. It ... is pretty similar to the last game of Def Jam that I played, though way more bombastic. I did like that there was no HUD, and the exceptionally stylized way things break down (funnily enough, at first I thought it was just lazy programming), but it's still pretty boring to play, and I don't know crap about these rappers. I would play it at a friends house, or possibly pick it up for $10 buck. It's a pretty big improvement from the last game, but not that big of a jump as I expected reading the initial post.
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Scratchmonkey · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439

ApM · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject:

Oh holy shit holy shit have you guys SEEN what EA has done to Wing Commander?! I don't even LIKE Wing Commander and this appalls me.

Game designers: When you are criticised for blindly taking design elements from previous games and transplanting them into new ones without understanding what made them work, the implication is that to improve, you should start attempting to understand what made them work, rather than throwing out all design elements from previous games and just doing whatever. I mean, maybe the game will be fun? But it's not anything that resembles Wing Commander.

dhex · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject:

in hindsight, the best thing about wing commander is the cameo in ultima 7. i liked the first one a lot, iirc.

privateer was where it was at, though.

but yeah, why would they bother doing that? seems like a lot of work for very little.
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Scratchmonkey · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439

I just don't know why they'd use the Wing Commander license, since all this will do is piss off the people who remember Wing Commander and not have much of an impact on the people who don't.

It seems like they would have been better off making the same game and not attaching a license at all.

I need to play Privateer. What's the legal status of the game at this point? Can you still get it anywhere?

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

Man, I figured it would be bad, but I didn't think it would be THAT bad. Jesus fucking christ, does anyone at that company think of anything outside of committee at all? I mean, I was expecting some lame gameplay changes to an in-cockpit flight sim that I could still enjoy since I have no love of the Wing Commander name, but that's just fucking ridiculous.

This makes the news that they are also making Disco Inferno: The Game a lot less exciting.

Someone remind me to punch someone from EA in the face next week.
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ryan · . Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 999

SuperWes · Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject:

Actually, that Wing Commander XBL game looks pretty good when viewed as something other than a Wing Commander game. It seems really strange that they're using that license considering I'm less likely to be interested in it because of the name Wing Commander (I didn't like any of the previous games and the movie just totally blew), and people who actually do like Wing Commander will hate what they've done to it. Dumb.

-Wes
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Scratchmonkey · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439

They could have done it better by trying to get the rights to Escape Velocity from Ambrosia and just publishing that.

And ryan, thanks for the Privateer link. I'll be checking that out.

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Hey guys I ordered SSX Blur today.

Cause its prequel (3, not On Tour) is one of my favorite games ever. Don't shoot, guys.

SuperWes · Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:05 am Post subject:

Lasa · . Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 128

I'll echo the SSX 3 love, superb design in just about every area.
It's amazing to see how well each peak acts as both a coherent hub and track.