The Gamer's Quarter

[nICO]

We talked about this a little bit on the Phantom Brave thread, but I think it could use it's own thread. Especially given the lack of new topics being created.

What is your favorite platformer on the PS2, GCN, Xbox, or even DC? Most importantly, why is it your favorite? To give the standard intro, we want a discussion, not a list.

Right now I might go with R&C: Up Your Arsenal or Mario Sunshine depending on my mood (and the season).

Up Your Arsenal really attempts to address the faults that kept the series from being truly great and to a large extent it suceeds. Going Commando began to move the focus of the game away from defeating enemies and moving on to building up your personal attributes and becoming more powerful, but Up Your Arsenal really jumps on that idea by allowing weapons to level up five times. This is a small tweak, but it completely changed the experience of the game for me and others I've talked to.

Of course, the focus of Up Your Arsenal remains defeating the enemies and moving through the story. This isn't, oh, Dragon Quest. But the sense of improvement and the different playstyle encouraged by leveling up the weapons five times adds a completely new level to the game. One that stands on its own enough you could just skip the story and progress through the game at your own pace while never really just wasting time.

The first R&C was fairly average. Not bad, but nothing special. As Superwes sort of pointed out, it's like a skeleton. The structure is being set up, but it lacks any heart. The second game is a drastic improvement. More meaning is offered for your actions (leveling up) and more variety is introduced into the design. The third game took the improvements made by the 2nd game and tweaked them to function even better.

Mario Sunshine is also great. If it wasn't for the falling sand platforming segments I might have been somewhat dissapointed, though. I wish we could have an entire game of those and the Mario 64 Bowser levels. But I don't really feel like writing any more about Mario Sunshine yet. Maybe if the conversation takes off...

[Mister Toups]

I probably had the most fun with the first Sly Cooper. But I don't own any current-gen platformers. I'm still a Mario 64 man.
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

[SuperWes]

Amen Mr. Toups. Nothing has topped Mario 64.

I'm really enjoying Psychonauts right now, but I wouldn't rank it among the best because it's just not polished enough.

I really, really liked the first Jak and Daxter at the time, but I'm not sure how well I'd enjoy it today.

I loved the look and feel of Sly Cooper, but the game itself felt very by the numbers.

I liked Mario Sunshine at the time, but right now I find it really hard to just sit down and play it. I wish it was more platforming and less bullshit.

Jak 2 was amazing when it was platforming, but the rest of the game just weighed it down.

Sly Cooper 2 is good because it's full of variety, but some of the missions just aren't fun.

Blinx is blah.

Blinx 2 is much better, and parts of it are boarderline incredible, but still overall blah.

Conclusion: The platforming genre has sucked ever since we started this generation. The best is... Umm. Jak and Daxter 1?

-Wes
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[dhex]

mario sunshine is such a piece of shit. (with the exception of the cave levels, with teh old skool jazz soundtrack, but the rest of the game eats ass)

i do all my platforming on the rooftops of balmora.

[Shapermc]

Yea, Jak 3 was the first platformer I have played in a while. It was... needlesstosay... not a platformer. Well, not what I was expecting. I never liked 3D platformers. They seem like a 2D only genere I don't think they do well in 3D and turn into 3D adventure games with bits of platforming.

One of the better games that I had played was ... shit, oh yea... Soul Reaver. I really got a kick out of that and it had some really tight platforming. But that is not current Gen.

Mario 64 was some fun filler for the DS, but all I could do was remember all the time I put into the game for the 64. I got all 120 coins for the 64. I think becuase of how great M64 was I could never really feel that Mario Sunshine did anything better (most of the time) and there were points that it did many many things worse (the camera for example).

Quick question, as I am home sick today and can't concentrate too well, is PN03 a platformer? Bucause I love that game... I would get into a full conversation about that game and it's merits and downfalls alone.

[purplechair]

With 2D platformers, the gameplay seems (to me) to be all about moving your character from one place to another. On a fundamental level, I mean. You look at the terrain around you, taking in the collectables and enemies and stuff, and then make up a little route to follow (although, you know, you usually do it all on-the-fly as the screen scrolls along).

But with 3D platformers, you can't get the same sense of spatial awareness. This is why a good camera is so vitally important - it's like playing Mario World, but with Mario waving a torch around, so you can only see the stuff the stuff he's pointing the torch at. You always have blind spots, wheras 2D platformers were quite reliant on you being able to take in the whole scene. Now, instead of just running along and taking things as they come, you have to start scouting around and looking at the level from different angles, so you can build a full model in your head. It's not really the same.

My biggest problem with Mario Sunshine was that the water pack just felt so wrong. Especially the hover nozzle, which took all the challenge and fun out of jumping. Jumping's the Big Thing about Mario... I mean, he used to be called Jump Man for God's sake... I really don't see why they had to let him float about at will and such. Anyway, this is the main reason why I also loved the warp pipe levels. But I think another reason is that they weren't very '3D' in design, which made them more 'platformery' than the rest of the game.

[EightBit]

No Rayman 2 love? For shame...

Probably my favorite platformer to date. I just dug it out of a box of games I had been neglecting to play through it again. I was distracted by Guild Wars though. Oh well. Im sure I'll have time this week to throw around some glowing balls of light.
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The Bitter Journals

[EightBit]

[Mr. Mechanical]

I like platformers, but I think I agree with others who have said they may be a 2D-only genre. 3D platformers to me aren't really platformers, they seem more like action games in disguise, action games lite. The ones that do focus on the actual platforming part of the equation are often times bogged down by the technology such as bad cameras, etc.

I liked the platforming bits in God of War, and that was because they had nice environments and a good camera to work with. That was more of a set piece game though, and most platformers want to follow the large environments with multiple goals idea, but set piece areas make the game feel a bit more fragmented like the old school games that had seperate levels.

It's kind of sad that after all this time the Mario 64 model still works best, because that model isn't without it's own problems. If they'd just make a platformer that focused on more abstract platforming, like the cave levels in Mario Sunshine already mentioned. Don't bother with cutesy stories or anything, just take the raw materials and work with them until they shine. Then build from there.

[TOLLMASTER]

Am I the only one who hated the "cave" levels in Super Mario Sunshine? It sure feels like it.

I often have trouble articulating exactly why I like a game and why I don't, but I have a theory on this one. In TOLLMASTER's twisted world where the skies are a blood-red hue, games are meant to be won, and won by the skin of your teeth. There is no thrill greater than casting a spell and killing a boss with your last MP while your HP is down to a quarter of its full amount, and you manage to destroy the bastard who killed all your other teammates, leaving you two alone to battle to the death. Outright failure, though, is like the game giving you a giant middle finger, kicking you while you're down and out. It would make sense, then, that I would have the "cave" levels of SMS. They are based upon failure. You fail, and you are forced to measure up to the task; you have to break up each platform jump into individual tasks and optimize them. You have to evolve to survive, whereas I don't want some game telling me outright that I'm not good enough for it. I probably had to force myself to like F-Zero GX and Gran Turismo 3 for the very same reason.

[Mr. Mechanical]

Right. That's the reason I don't play Mario Sunshine much, because much of it has you failng, which should never happen in a Mario game. Mario games are played to be won, usually. This is the difference between the new Mario games and the old ones.

I mention the cave levels because they are the most recent example of moving in the "right" direction. It's not that they are pure and correct, just that they represent a portion of that. There is still much work to be done with the genre before it feels as at home with it's 2D counterpart. Remove the overreaching difficulty from the cave levels and you've already taken a big step in the right direction.

[purplechair]

I guess that's the result of having save games and stuff. That's the reason why I didn't like Sonic 3 much... there was just no challenge. I've been playing Sonic Advance on my flash cart this week, and I can say that I had more fun once the ram stopped saving my game

[friedchicken]

I'm shocked no one has mentioned Maximo vs Army of Zin.

I just got it on a buy 2 get 1 deal at Gamestop for a song, and found that it's a great but not amazing platformer. But it has just the right mix of tough platforming and exploration. Unlike something like Rygar, you can't fall to your death a million times-- you die. But if you collect special tokens you can continue from the last checkpoint. AND when you just barely miss a jump, you dig your sword into the edge of a platform and can jump back up.

But really, it's like $15, check it out if you haven't already.

[DonMarco]

MDK 2

Me being a fan of the more 2.99D MDK 1, the sequel made me feel all warm and squishy inside. Shiny expanded the universe, cleaned everything up and made it look good. Different characters and stories. Gameplay changes and puzzles in addition to the run-and gun side-steping action from the first one. It was a great sequel. Never forget...

Jak & Daxter 2 was pretty old-school in it's unforgivingness. But! It had unlimited lives. Hense, it is not old-school. It is unforgiving new-school. Like Devil May Cry 3.

[Mister Toups]

MDK 2 felt kind of watered down to me. Anyway it's more of a run n gun than straight up platformer as I remember it. Good game though; there were really some great moments. Imaginative level design.
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

[dhex]

the first maximo is golden. haven't tried zin yet.

[Mr. Mechanical]

The first Maximo was good, yes, but it was also a lot harder than it needed to be. If you made a few bad choices and died a few too many times without replenishing all your continue tokens you had to start your game new all over again. That was always my biggest fear while playing it, that I'd fuck up like that and it kept me from enjoying the game in its fullest.

From the previews I saw Zin looked more like an action game than a platformer. It's fifteen dollars now, I should check it out sometime I suppose.

[SuperWes]