The Gamer's Quarter

[Ketch]

I'm fed up of arbitrary blocks to progression is games. For example having to find 100 rings to open up the next level*. The more arbitrary the task and the less integrated into plot it is, the worse this sentiment gets. Obviously, it is hard to get rid of all arbitrary barriers in games, because most games tend to consist of jumping through (metaphorical) tasks. Good puzzles that make 'sense' is one way of avoiding this.


1. In Mario 64, the need to get stars was so that the player would experience more of the game. If you didn't need stars you could have gone straight to the end. (Of course Mario 64 is more of an adventure playground / interactive themepark than a story-led game. You aren't playing for the 'story' but to experience the environments, and enjoy the tasks it throws at you).

Thoughts?

[JamesE]

[dessgeega]

so is this the rare thread?

but yeah, this reminds me of the recent discussion about fetch quests in adventure games / zelda. where you need to herd goats before you can get a slingshot. aside from the fact that it twists logic and causality, it completely destroys the suspense of disbelief in the world.
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[Shapermc]

[dessgeega]

[Shapermc]

[dessgeega]

that's from link's awakening! and yes, the "magical trinkets" aspect is part of it: working to earn money to trade for goods makes logical sense within an economic system and doesn't shatter the illusion quite so much. also, there are probably different ways to earn money and thus the barrier isn't as arbitrary! (see: purchasing the arrows / candle in the first zelda.) if you need to collect the five golden leaves, there's only one place to get them. jump through the developers' hoops!
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[Shapermc]

Yeah, Link's Awakening does the whole "this for that" thing amazingly well because it has that whole chain of things that lasts through like 2/3 of the game. You know, the one with the Yoshi Doll and dozens of other obvious pokes at the whole thing. It kind of snowballed and overtook itself from being something almost tounge-in-cheek level of outrageousness to being a lynchpin of the series.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

[JamesE]

Finding the leaves wasn't so much an arbitary fetch quest, more a whole mini-dungeon with unique enemies to fight (like the knights with maces, which I can't remember showing up elsewhere). I played that through fresh when I was 14, and I'd already come to accept that the game world had some videogame logic to it's interactions, but I still found it perfectly charming and immersive. It makes sense, too - Richard had to leave in a hurry, and suddenly a kid with a sword and shield turns up looking for help. It makes sense that he'd try and cut a deal with Link in exile. The layout and flow of the castle was a nice change of pace, and it felt like it's own reward.

What are the real life fetch quests? Trying to scrounge up enough batteries to use a remote control? Trying to scrounge up enough change to pay for food 4 minutes before the delivery guy knocks on your door? University? I'm thinking arbitary tasks aren't just confined to videogames.
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[dark steve]

University. Particularly when you have a non-straightforward registration or financial problem you need resolved.
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[Shapermc]

[wourme]

I thought this was going to be about invisible walls and things, such as the dog in Shadow of Destiny. Actual invisible walls really annoy me. Even Katamari Damacy resorted to them where they didn't really need to.

An issue I encounter a lot when I'm making little games myself is what to do with the sky. I mean, it's easy enough to block it off as in Blaster Master--but that ceiling plays a role in Blaster Master other than JUST keeping the player contained.

[Nana Komatsu]

A game where you play a mime and run into invisible walls would be hilarious.

[Cycle]

I really like your game ideas. I mean, I would hate to play them, but I would still probably buy it anyway.

[Nana Komatsu]

I am full of good bad ideas.

[dhex]

fucking oblivion.
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[Redeye]

[Harveyjames]

[dessgeega]

[silentmatt]

[Redeye]

[dhex]

combat was the one thing they got right, actually.

i was thinking more about the actual arbitrary barriers of the world map.
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[Harveyjames]

Yeah, Oblivion didn't let me do anything I wanted to. I approached the game from the angle that the developers were renaissance fair dorks who I would have nothing in common with and worked from there. If someone told me to go to the guildhall, I'd go for a swim in the lake. If I was told to seek out the mystic stone of Kazakh-Ghull I'd go and try to climb a mountain. Then I'd bump into an invisible wall.

[Shapermc]

[Redeye]

[dhex]

it had a lot more bounce and tactile feedback than previous TES titles, to be sure. less of being a complete 2d tank rolling through the landscape.
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