The Gamer's Quarter

[Lestrade]

I was just reading Penny Arcade's comments and comic on FFXII's super-programmable characters. After reading more about the game itself and the Gambit system, I have to think: why? Why?

I don't like controlling and managing anyone in any game besides me; I find standard, three- or four-person RPG parties tedious as it is. That being said, why on Earth would I want to micro-manage—nay, program!?—other characters in a videogame to, you know, do something? Isn't that the programmer's job? Is this Square-Enix's school lesson about how difficult it is to program competent AI?

The whole idea seems completely ridiculous. Wes, as someone who's played through FFXII, what do you think?

[GSL]

[SuperWes]

I agree that it initially sounds sort of terrible, but in practice having semi-automated battles actually works really well. I was reading somewhere that FFXII initially began as an MMO game, and that inspiration is easily seen in both the gameplay and the game length. Because it didn't end up being an online game Matsuno and his team had to come up with a different way of doing things.

Their solution was to replace the other players with NPCs that you control yourself by creating their AI routines: The Gambit system. By doing things this way you're given the benefits of multi-character strategy without the hassle of relying on people who are constatly running around calling you a homo and stealing your gear. In practice, it's only slightly different from games like X-Men Legends, where your NPCs follow you around and attack on their own. The most significant difference is that in FFXII you can actually anticipate their actions because you've programmed them yourself. That and, uhh, the AI routines are run by the entire party instead of just secondary characters. The important part is that the strategy is still there.

I've talked about this before, but the fun of Final Fantasy battles doesn't come from selecting what you want from a menu - it comes from developing and implementing strategies that evolve as your skills increase. The FFXII battle system is completely focused on this type of strategy, almost to the point where it feels like a tactics game. Actually, many of the strategies in FFT still apply in XII, but on a toned-down scale. I'd give specific examples, but I think that might be breaking my NDA. Trust me when I say that there is some absolutely insane detail to be found in some of the things that effect the amount of damage your characters do.

With each battle, you're watching what works and doesn't, trying to figure out a way to maximize your character's efficiency, constantly trying to decide which way you should evolve your characters and after they finally reach the next step in their evolution, the whole process starts over again. It wouldn't work if the game wasn't paced in such a perfect way, but it's so well-balanced that you're always making important decisions.

It's true that a lot of people aren't going to "get" it, but these people are the ones looking at the "how" of RPGs instead of the "why." Final Fantasy keeps a lot of the "whys," but completely changes the "hows," successfully removing many of the abstractions that have existed in the genre ever since Dragon Quest 1. The misconception Penny Arcade has is that removing the menus themselves will somehow change what they represent.

If you're still on the fence about the whole thing you should probably also be aware that the Gambit system can be disabled on-the-fly on a character by character basis, leaving you free to make every single decision for yourself. If you decide to do this you'll learn really quick why the Gambit System was a good idea. The game just moves too fast to do everything yourself.

I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone thinks when they finally get a chance to play it. Another one of the authors - a "Professional Street Fighter player" - mentioned that it's his favorite Final Fantasy since VI. I'm inclined to agree with him!

-Wes
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[Nana Komatsu]

Having played enough Dragon Quest VIII, I'm actually looking forward to the Gambit system. The thing with the AI in DQ8 was it was smart, but never smart enough to do what I wanted. Maybe it's because I have a background in computer programming, but the idea of setting conditions for actions sounds really ideal for me.

Then again I'm also bad at RPGs in that I almost always focus on one or two characters and let the rest of my part waste away until that no longer works and I have to spend hours grinding to get the rest of my party up to the same level as my main character.

[simplicio]

[dark steve]

[Faithless]

This game is making me cry. It's actually so beautiful, it brought me to tears. I don't know when the last time that happened was.

I don't like the music as much, though.
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www.call-to-adventure.com
Don't Refuse.

[Shapermc]

[dessgeega]

[Dracko]

IGN are very, very silly.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[TheRumblefish]

[Dracko]

Don't buy a 360 just yet! You can still pre-order a PS3!
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[Lackey]

[dark steve]

Basically!

[Lestrade]

Update!

The wife and I started a game of Final Fantasy XII last night fo' realz, and man were we disapointed. To me it did everything wrong; despite the fact that the game started off with several minutes of beautiful but predictable CG (is it Lord of the Rings or is it Star Wars?), it literally put my wife to sleep with more pointless backstory in the form of a freaking history lesson! For those who enjoy watching A&E relentlessly during War Campaign Month, this might prove fascinating; to my wife and I, it was mind-numbing. We just skipped it after a point.

Once in the game itself, FFXII continued down the dark path: a tutorial level, the most uninteresting level design I've ever seen, and a battle system I actually hate more than the turn-based battles of old. I can't believe I'm saying that, but it's true! After a few minutes with the battle system, I said to my (sleeping) wife: "So now the battle system takes the worst of both worlds (a repetitive real-time world and aggravating wait-and-see menu-hunting) and makes an even worse game out of it! I think I'd rather just play FFIV on the Game Boy."

After more heady story and goddamn history lessons (Start, then X to skip), we were in the game proper. My god, it was everything I hate about games. It was WOW with uncomfortable control and a city comprised of hard, right angles. It was the last straw for RPGs. By the time I was sent on a fetch quest to kill an evil tomato in the desert, I was ready to throw in the towel. Once I entered the desert, and had this vision of doing this exact same task for 40 more hours, I turned off the game and went to bed.

It's true! Final Fantasy is official over.

[Nana Komatsu]

This was the leaked version or for some organization?

[dark steve]

Keep going. I promise you this game is UNBELIEVABLY GOOD and I haven't finished an RPG since the PS2 came out. The battle system doesn't really make sense until you've got more than one character and you can turn gambits on (soon!), but when it does, you'll see how crazy painless and efficient it is. The tomato thing is just another tutorial. FF is dead, but OGRE BATTLE FUCKING LIVES.

(Also the dude reciting backstory is actually a significant character you'll meet and deal with in the game so in this sense it's actually upfront story exposition so YEAH)

edit: I mean. Okay. Tutorials suck. But as you go further in, you're gonna see that compared to previous games, this one's surprisingly complex and involved, and it's trying to do it's best to ease you in slowly. There is a LOT to take in once you hit the point where you can basically build characters as you like (not too far off!).

[Fred]

How is the story? And character development? Does it follow the theme of the last three games with the "EMO BOY UNEARTHS APOCALYPTIC REPUBLICAN CONSPIRACY, SAVES WORLD WITH HELP FROM RAG-TAG BAND OF STEREOTYPES" or are they doing something new finally?

[Sushi d]

[Lockeownzj00]

I still don't know what constitutes "good story" in console RPGs. We accept that they're not Planescape or Baldur's Gate--they're not even attempting to approach that.

So, my question is, what is a "good" RPG story? Something that's more "realistic?" How exactly do you mak ea wonderful, in-depth story when the premise is an adventure in a world where dragons and men walk the same ground? Again: being an adventure, it can't be a hilariously sarcastic situational-comedy or a stunning drama. God forbid it tries to spin something that isn't the same trite DW1 shit, though.

I mean, FFVIII's story really wasn't that bad. It gets a lot of flak, but I demand an alternative to what we were given. If you can't come up with one, I suggest you clam up. If all that cruft hadn't been there it wouldn't have been Final Fantasy and it wouldn't have been fun. It would be...Dragon Warrior!

Yeah, so moral of the story: why would you expect Shakespeare going into a console RPG? Your sophistry precludes actually having fun, because it really is there.

Oh, and on the A&E comment: While I don't specifically, I was the guy who wanted to skip the gameplay in Xenosaga so I could just watch the cut-scenes. So I don't mind, really.

[Dracko]

[dark steve]

Yeah, my barometer is pretty useless at this point as for what constitutes a good story/character development in a jRPG

It seems pretty alright, though! It's kind of reminiscent of FFVI except in a setting and with people.

The dialogue's pretty decent, too! With the translation, even!

Can we filter "emo" into something suitably mean? I'm really getting sick of that word.
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[helicopterp]

[dessgeega]

emo => po-mo?
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[SuperWes]

[Shapermc]

[dhex]

can emo be filtered to "mopey" ? or how about "eyore" ?

wouldn't it be great if someone made a jrpg where the protagonist was a father who hates his son? that sound you hear is a paradigm shifting, baby!
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[SuperWes]

[player 2]

[dessgeega]

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[Lestrade]

That is just awesome. Desktop picture!

[Dracko]

[Lockeownzj00]

[SuperWes]

[helicopterp]

[Lockeownzj00]

[helicopterp]

That is much more reasonable perspective. The train of thought still seems a little unambitious to me, but I think that's because I am making an assumption that the stories don't excel within their genres. Pretty unfair of me.
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Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one.

[player 2]

i remember the last time i bought a final fantasy game. it was almost as exciting as this. holy shit. i'm fucking psyched. oh my god. i am going to play this until i pass out. intermitently i will write about it. it will be glroiousl.dflaskdhflsakdjf kthxbye
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Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

[Scratchmonkey]

I have a horrible feeling that tomorrow is going to involve me attempting to track down this game despite not having preordered it. This feeling is extra-horrible because I now realize that my ace in the hole for heavily-desired games, the Toys-R-Us in Emeryville, is now a Babys-R-Us.

[dark steve]

Yeah, people in IRC have been coming back from midnight opening events.

That's trouble!
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[squidlarkin]

[Nana Komatsu]

DHL tried to deliver my copy this morning before 10:30 am and I wasn't awake, but they didn't leave it on my porch so I have to wait for tomorrow them to try again ;_;

[SuperWes]

[Nana Komatsu]

Hey Scratchmonkey: Frys has FFXII for $38 as well, I don't know how many there are up in the east bay.

[Lestrade]

I haven't picked up FFXII since I wrote my post. I wanted to the other day, but I think that desire is gone.

I'm thinking about playing FFIV through again, incidentally. Or at least starting it and playing it until I get bored. That is more my type of RPG; linear and simple, yet solid all the way through. I wish it was available via XBLA though (I wish everything was!).

[Lockeownzj00]

Yeah; even though FFIV certianly isn't my favorite Final Fantasy, as soon as it came out for GBA I bought it. It's a game I have this nostalgic love for, and aint a bad way to pass the time in school or wherever else.

Personally, that's why I usually find myself buying RPG/strategy games for handhelds--I want something I can pick up again and again, slowly chipping away at it. Just ordered Advance Wars DS and Final Fantasy III DS, for example.

[Scratchmonkey]

[B coma]

yeah I agree that this feels very much like an FF game. I mean, it starts out a bit differently than most of them do, but when you have that cutscene where Fran and Balthier cruise in on their hovercycle, and you've never seen them to this point, but it's clear that they are there to kick ass - followed an hour or so later by Vaan's emotional explosion at a certain important character - I mean, the game is hemorrhaging the series heritage by this point.

The music is less catchy, but hey. Even in that respect the soundtrack feels a continuation FFT games, which is appropriate given it's the same universe.

[Isfet]

so far i'm enjoying the game pretty much all around. i'm sort of waiting for it to pick up a bit, though (however, i've maybe put in 5 hours or so). what i've played hasn't turned me off at all, and i really see the potential for the game to become a lot of fun once i'm into it. the speed of battles is really nice. it reminds me of games i've played, but done in a more precise way. i'm kind of excited to get to the point where i can buy gambits. now, question: do you just buy gambits, or do you have to unlock them on the lisence board as well?

i think the thing with the music in this one is that it's a bit more like a movie soundtrack. actually, a lot about this game comes off as more theatrical than the previous games. the cuts, the direction, the "camera" angles and the music all sort of seem more in line with cinema than with the way most video games handle their cutscenes. Uematsu's music is typically like the equivalent of a radio single. rarely does he make a track that's really expansive and flows with the action on screen. typically it's like you're playing a game while listening to some fairly catchy songs on a mix CD you have.

[Mister Toups]