The Gamer's Quarter

SuperWes

Hey guys, I've been playing a lot of the Japanese release of FFXII lately and it's very different from my expectations. I'm wondering what other people's pre-release FFXII expectations are. It features several massive changes to the formula that could turn away a lot of fans or bring in a lot. What are you guys expecting from the game? Would you be happier if the game met your expecations or totally smashed them? If you've totally given up on Final Fantasy games what would it take to bring you back?

This thread is about Final Fantasy XII, but it can also be about expectations in general if that's your fancy. Go!

-Wes
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dhex · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject:

unfounded predictions!

- i expect there will be at least two love triangles.

- new chocobo nail clipper minigame with collectible trimmers and a special trainer who can teach you to cut the nails of dozens of chocobos in seconds, allowing you to win a bracelet you can trade for a dull ruby that's really the soul of an old demon whose favorite thing to eat is chocobo nail clippings.

- the voice acting will be terrible.

- dads will be loved for the first third of the game, until all the molestation flashbacks start.

- jailbait! jailbait! jailbait!
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Wilkes · milky wilkie Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 256

- dickgirls
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SuperWes · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:58 pm Post subject:

it's better than i thought it would be by quite a bit.

welcome to 1995 japan. enjoy your stay!

serious question: why does everyone have bangs?
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Wilkes · milky wilkie Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 256

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

It may be the first Final Fantasy I buy since 7, depending on what I hear around here.

Actually, 7's the only one I ever bought (I played my friend's copy of 6), just to see what the fuss was about. I never did figure that out.

No wait, that's a lie! I've got a copy of 4 Advance I forgot about! I've forgotten about it.

From what I've heard about 12 so far I'd be interested more in the mechanics and the new take on the random battle RPG form than anything. I'm pretty much expecting things like characters and story to suck. I'm prepared!

Mister Toups · Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:29 pm Post subject:

This will be the first final fantasy game I buy at launch... ever!
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Swimmy · . Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 990 Location: Fairfax, VA

SJ · . Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 61 Location: swamp

I'll be picking this up to see if the programmable AI for your party members lives up to my expectations. I hear good things.

dhex · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:46 am Post subject:

SuperWes · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:07 am Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:24 am Post subject:

what that has to do with the price of tea in china, i don't know. do you go up to gary coleman and ask him to stop asking willis what he's talkin' about? would you go up to jerry seinfeld and ask him to stop being a boring fuckface who has never been funny in his entire life and should have been aborted with a screwdriver and lighter fluid?

then how can you possibly expect me to stop making "i hate you dad" jokes?

i know i'm fucking with your thread and i'm sorry but like the scorpion said to the squirrel, "it's in my nature, fuck you dad i'm going to kill god whether you like it or not oh no a girl <...>"

edit: there's this problem where you get kinda caught up in a joke - or any other work of fiction - and it becomes a part of you after a while; i'd never really paid any attention to anime (or any japanese entertainment, really) until i started reading posts/journals of people who consumed it. i knew it existed, of course, but i paid it no mind for it was not of my world. and after a while it's like "oh, that person is severely emotionally damaged and likes anime, how funny" every so often. then you start to notice a pattern and you begin to wonder "is it me? or is it the anime? am i brainwashing myself or am i seeing something that's truly real?" of course, at this point all the fun people get visited by some sort of vast, cool and unsympathetic intelligence from the star sirius but all i've ever done is had a long conversation about sex and archetypes with the bvm and run away from something i swear looked like tezcatlipoca (as well as something involving giant intelligent mantis creatures from somewhere beyond salvia space that i'd rather not talk about) and none of that is any help in deciphering this. it's much like the problem of the war on some drugs, in that the worst offenders rise to the top (for legalization to live the pothead must die) and everyone else with social skills kinda floats on by. but by the time i'd walked past the big ff12 display in my local gamestop so much of this has coalesced into actual moral condemnation, like i suddenly understood how andrea dworkin could march around as she did.

sometimes the world requires fire, for there is nothing more beautiful than a blank piece of paper.
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SuperWes · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:55 am Post subject:

dessgeega · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:56 am Post subject:

i enjoy the i hate you dad jokes.

i sort of want dhex to play dragon quest V though.
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GSL · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject:

Faithless · . Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 153

I cannot froth enough for this game. I simply can not. I am not capable of frothing to completion for this game.

The voice acting looks okay. Could this be my new favorite Final Fantasy? Oh please, dear god, please.

Also: I hated X.
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Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

J.Goodwin · . Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 297 Location: North Shore, MA

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

Maybe because the games get less good with each iteration (Though I don't know about DoA, having never played a game in that series), save the odd exception, like Yoshi's Island and New Super Mario Bros.. The last time Megaman was worth a damn was back in 1990.

Come to think of it, I think the only time that I'd consider playing a Final Fantasy title again is if the game starts to play like its screenshots ("That's a nifty epic battle and airship dogfight. Now to get bored for the next dozen hours."). No, Dirge of Cerberus doesn't even come close, but it's a start.
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dessgeega · Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:13 pm Post subject:

law of diminishing returns, etc.
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helicopterp · . Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia

Faithless · . Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 153

Wow, given this atmosphere, my next article for GQ is right on target.
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Lestrade · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:15 am Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:33 am Post subject:

isn't that what wikipedia is for?
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Lestrade · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject:

isn't watching 10 vhs tapes of a jrpg even more work though?
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SuperWes · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject:

Lestrade · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject:

Ketch · . Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

For RPGs to improve, they need to be consistent. I don't want to be jarred from my badass CG cutscenes, androgynous cut-outs or not, with off-scale map screens, equally off-scale combat screens, mini-games and then conversations which have no real effect, let alone provide insight, on the plot.

You can see why, in the example of Final Fantasy XII even, I'd feel irate that Square puts on these lush epic battles, only to thrust us back in gutter-crawling, 3 on 2 combat which lasts typically anywhere between 3 minutes to an hour.

I don't think RPGs are the best genre to provide gamers that sense of freedom. Note that I clearly mean sense. Full freedom for a game is a ridiculous notion, no matter how big a sandbox you give. It's like expecting full freedom in a film, or any other form of narrative for that matter. So far, the best way, I find to give this player the feeling that in this world, anything is possible that comes to mind, is to clearly show, and stick to, the specific rules in control of that game. Even interactive fiction do better jobs of this, despite their lack of graphical detail or even detailed character interactions.

RPGs are to concerned with stats and decisions signifying nothing of import to be able to provide a truly captivating experience. Yes, adventure games, FPS and what-have-you are more directed, but at least they never give off a pretense. If they're well made (and taught), they'll give off a sense that you've made an actual impact on the story. Gordon Freeman inspires rebellion, Master Chief takes on a deluded theocratic order from space in truly Hollywoodian fashion, Goggles takes down the rampant A.I. Shodan, Garrett begrudgingly saves the world, The Nameless One, well, figures out who he is, or rather, was. And then you've got all the adventure game protagonists from Guybrush Threepwood to Gabriel Knight.

I don't think there's anything wrong with directed games. Free-form has always been tedious and uninspiring to me, let alone edifying, because there's no clear purpose behind it. Final Fantasy bores me because it doesn't deliver what it advertises and turns story-telling into a long, gruelling affair, with no real pay-off. I honestly find the series more exploitative in image and pretense alone, than a Dead or Alive or Grand Theft Auto.

The only recent announcements I've heard of free-form games that I can picture working are BioShock and The Outsider. The former has its pedigree and its own detailed back-story to lean onto, the latter is not concerned at all with a plot per se, rather it aims to simulate the motives and aims of the characters you'll come upon, and leave it to you how to best use that knowledge.

I get a better sense of risk in my decision making playing a Total War game or even an Operation: Flashpoint or Brothers in Arms. The combat in jRPGs have always come off as unnatural, and feel neither visceral or intellectual. Maybe I just sound like I'm repeating some of the points you've made, and for all my bitching, I do enjoy the odd jRPG once in a while.

It's just that they're typically of the Front Mission of Bahamut Lagoon variety.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

SuperWes · Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject:

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

I am extremely excited for this game! I'm gonna preorder the limited edition!

Also, I didn't realize you could type in the text box (where they give hints about BBcode like "Insert Image: [img]...") above the post entry textarea.

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

J.Goodwin · . Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 297 Location: North Shore, MA

Mister Toups · Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:08 am Post subject:

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

J.Goodwin · . Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 297 Location: North Shore, MA

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

Not really, but it is extremely consistent. Cutscenes are done with the game engine or at least there's no jarring difference between the two.

Doesn't help it from being a grindfest with a lame second half.

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

Then no thanks.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

For the record, I only grinded levels once for about an hour and it was fairly early on. The thing is, you usually explore enough to level up without it feeling like grinding. The game gives you the immersion level to let you feel like there is a reason to explore.
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SuperWes · Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:57 am Post subject:

Someone looking for something new in jRPGs should, by default, comepletly ignore the Dragon Quest series. It's a series that's entirely about preserving the jRPG formula.

-Wes
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helicopterp · . Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia

Does anybody else ever want to write it out as 'Draggin Quest'? It's probably more appropriate that way.
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Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

I still think Final Fantasy X-2 was the most inventive jRPG on the PS2 so far (so I guess that dismisses my opinions about everything else!).

Lockeownzj00 · . Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 214

What I find hilarious is people talking about Final Fantasy being hackneyed and then heralding Dragon Quest.

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

I think what Dragon Quest brings with it is self-awareness and a love of the flawed form. I can't say wether or not that actually makes those weaknesses worthwhile, but a lot of people seem to think so.

I at least appreciate it more than something like Final Fantasy, which takes itself entirely seriously while plumbing the lowest depths of jEmo.

Swimmy · . Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 990 Location: Fairfax, VA

Dragon Quest is more about invoking nostalgia than preserving a formula for its own sake. That just happens to follow. Final Fantasy is about adding flashy bullshit to Dragon Quest.

There are plenty of hackneyed jRPG games that are worth playing. There are many, many more that aren't. (Obviously.)
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Lockeownzj00 · . Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 214

J.Goodwin · . Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 297 Location: North Shore, MA