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GSL
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 Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Shaper: Now that you've finished Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?, as your attourney I advise you to seek out The Man in the High Castle. If you thought Androids was heavy on the inapproptiate mind-touching, this one will possibly leave you to swear off reading for a few weeks upon finishing it. |
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Shapermc
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| Greatsaintlouis wrote: | | I advise you to seek out The Man in the High Castle. |
I almost got it because it was at a used book store by where I am living. But it was like a first printing or something and was $35. So I passed.
I will say something good about Confessions: Around page 125 it picked up and read smootly until I was tired around page 160. Also the muder feast was pretty messed up.
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seryogin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: |
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The Man in the High Castle is wacky.
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dhex
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:45 am Post subject: |
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confessions of a mask is a strangled gasp of alienation and horror. the way his sexuality is mutated into a violent, monochromatic obsession is quite chilling. i enjoyed and shuddered through every minute.
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Shapermc
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: |
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| dhex wrote: | | confessions of a mask is a strangled gasp of alienation and horror. the way his sexuality is mutated into a violent, monochromatic obsession is quite chilling. i enjoyed and shuddered through every minute. |
This is going on the front of the next printing of the book!
Also, I really think the translation for this book needs to be re-done. Seriously, there are sentences that read like Engrish, and sometimes whole pages that do.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
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seryogin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| dhex wrote: | | confessions of a mask is a strangled gasp of alienation and horror. the way his sexuality is mutated into a violent, monochromatic obsession is quite chilling. i enjoyed and shuddered through every minute. |
The reason I liked it so much was that I laughed from recognition throughout all of it. Not a good laugh too.
And, yeah, this translation is about fifty years old by now. And it was done way before there was a glut of people writing about Japan. Weatherby, Ivan Morris, Edward Seidensticker, and John Nathan, were pretty much the only "serious" translators at the time.
The Russian translation was done by detective novelist Boris Akunin, who has had--I believe--two or three novels of his translated into English, and who translated a good deal of Mishima into Russian. They are, impressively enough, usually much better than the English translations and different at certain points too. It makes me wonder what the actual Japanese is like.
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dhex
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: |
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i thought the translation was good - in the sense that it didn't feel incomplete, or fragmented, or otherwise butchered - but i'm reading the new directions version. i don't know if there were other american printings.
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seryogin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: |
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It's most probably the one by Meredith Weatherby, a translation that Mishima himself liked, though he did point out that she translated certain things incorrectly. It's readable, though it's somewhat less poetic sounding in English.
Anyway, since we're on the topic translation. I found this earlier today, from the NYT of 1965. I won't bother to correct the obvious mistakes.
| Quote: | If you can't read it in Kanji, the intricate Chinese characters or ideograms in which the Japanese write most of their language, you miss an important visual impact in the work of authors like Yukio Mishima, the Tokyo novelist and playwright. Any cultivated Oriental reader--Japanese, Chinese and Koreans all use Chinese characters of the same meaning, although they often attach different-sounding words to them--appraises writing for its effect on the eye as well as the ear.
Mr. Mishima, a humorous and youthful man of 40, explained this and other esoteric aspects of composition in Japanese that are known probably to few of his English- language readers. To do so he took time out from frantic preparations to leave for New York, to participate in the American debut of his new novel, "The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With the Sea."
"The Japanese title couldn't be translated well," said the novelist, whose spoken English is fluent after many trips to America. "In Japanese the book is called 'Gogo No Eiko,' which literally means 'Afternoon's Tow,' referring to a tugboat taking a ship through a harbor. 'Eiko' is a play on words: It means either 'tow' or 'glory.'
"When there is a double way of reading Kanji--that is, when the character has two different meanings--we explain the meaning intended by an entry in the margin, in a script called Furi-kana. We also use Hira-gana, which is always used for foreign words." Doodling as he talked, he wrote "New York Times" in Kata-kana.
Why can't Hira-gana, which gives a more or less accurate pronunciation, be used for foreign words instead of complicating things with a third script? "It doesn't look right," Mr. Mishima said.
Mr. Mishima always writes in Japanese and never changes a translation. "The translator asks me thousands of questions," he said, "but I don't mind small mistakes." He was amused, not angry, when the translator of an earlier novel rendered the word "yatsuhashi" as "eighth bridge," which is a perfectly correct alternate reading of the characters that the author intended to mean a kind of cake sold in Kyoto. "The translator really had to struggle with that sentence to have it make sense with a bridge in it," he said, chuckling.
"It is most important that the translator have a gift of expression in English and Japanese shouldn't try it," Mr. Mishima continued. "They read like an English-speaker writing in Japanese. Donald Keene [one of Mr. Mishima's several translators] is the only American I know of who writes well in Japanese." He also thinks that John Nathan, a young American and a student of Japanese literature at Tokyo University, did a superb job of writing English in his translation of "The Sailor."
The mechanics of writing a book in Japanese, as Mr. Mishima described them, make special demands upon author and publisher. The manuscript is written entirely by hand (modern Japanese authors use a ballpoint instead of the traditional brush), for the use of the cumbersome Japanese typewriter of about 2,000 characters would be slower and too restrictive.
The number of Chinese characters is vast: A university graduate might know 20,000 and still be learning. Mr. Mishima often uses a Kanji that his publisher's printer happens not to have in stock, in which case a type foundry has to cast it specially.
"I use a Japanese dictionary to check the accuracy of my characters. They can be incredibly complex." He dashed off the character for Mount Hiei, a favorite resort near Kyoto, which took 16 separate strokes of the pen. Some have as many as 33 strokes, all conveying nuances of the whole "picture" of the word. "No dictionary contains all the Kanji there are. The first and second proofs often come back with a mark called a geta, because it looks like the imprint of a geta, the Japanese wooden clog, in place of a character that the printer has had to order specially made. He always has it for the third proof," he said.
Japanese authors write on large sheets of paper ruled into 400 small squares, each square for one character, which they buy at stationery shops. The writer is paid by the page, and many have been known to stretch out their prose for this reason. (Mr. Mishima insists that he has never done so.)
"There is no close relation between the number of characters and the number of English words they will make," he said. "I'm always in trouble, since I write only in Japanese, when an English-language magazine asks me for an article of so many words. A word may take one character, or two or three, and then there are the Hira-gana and the Kata- kana, but the Furi-kana don't count. I have no way of knowing how many words I've written until the piece is translated.
Some linguistic reformers think that the Japanese should write their language in the Roman alphabet, which all Japanese learn in school. Japanese written in such a way is called "Romaji," and is used in telegrams, often with confusing effect when the context of a message fails to indicate which use among many is intended for a word of multiple meanings, like Mr. Mishima's "Yatsuhachi," mentioned above.
"Romaji is awful," Mr. Mishima said flatly. "The visual effect of a Chinese character is very important." He slashed out the rounded, multi-stemmed character for "rose," and looked at it admiringly. "See how the rose appears physically in the shape of the Kanji," he said. "A writer loves to give such an effect to his readers." |
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Shapermc
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:37 am Post subject: |
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Yea, that is one of the reasons I always wanted to learn Japanese. Also, while looking to see who translated the New Directions version (perhaps Dhex will tell us) I found this review which pretty much sums up how I have felt so far:
| Quote: | | The story itself - specifically the main voice, a young man (Mishima himself?) - never progresses. The same lack of form and function persists in the telling of the story, start to finish. Mishima muses and postulates about love and sexuality. The voice explores its secrets and thoughts carefully and meticulously. And while the explorations are clever for their language and style - they are not fresh and grow stale as they are reviewed cyclically. |
Like I said, the last 25 pages or so picked up a little.
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"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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seryogin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: |
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You'll love Confessions of a Mask only if you're already a fan of "watakushi-shousetsu"-"I-novels." I've liked them ever since I read Mori Ogai's "Vita Sexualis" and that's why I adore Confessions of a Mask as well.
Edit: Shaper, you're gay for not liking this book!
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dhex
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:03 am Post subject: |
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that reviewer may be missing the point.
of course it doesn't progress. he's a fucking alien trying to live as a human.
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seryogin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Also, what people seem to ignore is that Mishima really isn't gay in the tradional sense. His primary attraction is violence. Specifically, the beauty of violent death and the sexually exciting aspects of it. And that's more of a closeted, limp-wristed nerd obsession than a homosexual one. Trust me, I fucking know all too well. Which is why I found it endlessly fascinating.
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GSL
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| Shapermc wrote: |
This is going on the front of the next printing of the book! |
| In a five-star review, dhex wrote: | | The Gamer's Quarter is a strangled gasp of alienation and horror. The way the authorial collective's sexuality is mutated into a violent, monochromatic obsession is quite chilling. I enjoyed and shuddered through every minute. |
Or were you referring to Confessions of a Mask itself? |
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seryogin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: |
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seryogin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Greatsaintlouis wrote: | | Shapermc wrote: |
This is going on the front of the next printing of the book! |
| In a five-star review, dhex wrote: | | The Gamer's Quarter is a strangled gasp of alienation and horror. The way the authorial collective's sexuality is mutated into a violent, monochromatic obsession is quite chilling. I enjoyed and shuddered through every minute. |
Or were you referring to Confessions of a Mask itself? |
Goddamn, this is going on the back of the next issue.
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Scratchmonkey
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| seryogin wrote: | | The Russian translation was done by detective novelist Boris Akunin, who has had--I believe--two or three novels of his translated into English |
4! With another couple coming out in the next two years. My fiancee is a fan of his. |
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seryogin
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Scratchmonkey wrote: | | seryogin wrote: | | The Russian translation was done by detective novelist Boris Akunin, who has had--I believe--two or three novels of his translated into English |
4! With another couple coming out in the next two years. My fiancee is a fan of his. |
I've read two of his novels. I can't say I liked them very much, but then again I've never been a fan of detective novels. The movies made from them are usually fairly entertaining.
I do though admire Akunin's vigor. He set out to write a novel in every possible genre of detective novels, while using the same set of characters (paranormal, locked room, spy, etc).
His newest project (so far untranslated) has been to write a novel in every possible genre of literature. Currently Science Fiction, Children's book, and Spy Novel have come out with more on the way.
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Shapermc
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| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| seryogin wrote: | | Edit: Shaper, you're gay for not liking this book! |
When did I say that? I mean, what the hell did you expect coming from the high that is The Sailor? You can't say: "hey, read this really great thing by this guy, then read the first thing he ever wrote, which is more heavy and very introspective, and not as skillful." and then expect me to sing praises.
Hell, I mean, I stop reading books I don't like and I haven't stopped reading it yet.
And so what if I am happy.
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"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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GSL
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:48 am Post subject: |
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| Shapermc wrote: | | And so what if I am happy. |
Etymology from antiquity fallen out of common cultural usage?! What a queer thing to say! |
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sawtooth
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:31 am Post subject: |
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I have to read Young Lonigan, by James Farrell for English class. So far it's like Catcher in the Rye except the angst is happening a couple income brackets lower. I... kind of like it. I don't mind it, at least. It's been a long while since I've actually read a book I enjoyed (The Wind Up Bird Chronicle, actually, which I read last summer).
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OtakupunkX
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| sawtooth wrote: | | I have to read Young Lonigan, by James Farrell for English class. So far it's like Catcher in the Rye except the angst is happening a couple income brackets lower. I... kind of like it. I don't mind it, at least. It's been a long while since I've actually read a book I enjoyed (The Wind Up Bird Chronicle, actually, which I read last summer). |
That sounds really good, we had to read Catcher last year for school and I really enjoyed it.
We're supposed to start The Great Gatsby in my English class soon but I doubt we do because we lose next week to TAKS (Texas's standardized testing program, which is more important to teach than anything else, apparently), we have AP testing soon after, and then we only have a few weeks left of school. |
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Lackey
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:43 am Post subject: |
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I'm kind of enjoying Kafka's The Trial right now, though The Castle sounded more interesting to me.
It's fun reading a book which someone else has taken notes in. I keep wondering why certain sentences are underlined. Usually I just don't know.
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simplicio
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:02 am Post subject: |
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So at this thread's behest, I started in on Mishima a while ago, with The Sound of Waves. I did enjoy it, but I think that might largely be due to being born and raised on a small, isolated island myself. It seemed to me that he may have been trying too hard with it as well, like "I want to write a book about young, uncorrupted innocents in this crazy modern world. Now where can I find some of them?" I was honestly wondering what the buzz was about, so I'm happy I came back here. I picked up Temple of the Golden Pavilion and a 3 parts of the Sea of Fertility yesterday. I may go to another store today and see if they've got Sailor (which is his best? definitively?) and The Temple of Dawn. So has anybody read his final cycle? Anything I should pay attention to?
Also, I'm currently reading Don Quixote (the 2003 Edith Grossman translation, which is excellent), and it's fabulous and I'm wondering why I never did till now. |
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dhex
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: |
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i just finished coersion (by doug rushkoff) and am now reading the magic mountain by thomas mann.
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Shapermc
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| Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| simplicio wrote: | | I picked up Temple of the Golden Pavilion |
I was warned against this book, and I am going to have to say to avoid it as well.
And yes, read The Sailor before the Sea of Fertility. If Sound of Waves is the only thing you have read... you will love The Sailor (or really, really hate it! but... you are kinda supposed to hate it).
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simplicio
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| Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Shapermc wrote: | | simplicio wrote: | | I picked up Temple of the Golden Pavilion |
I was warned against this book, and I am going to have to say to avoid it as well.
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Any particular reason? It seems a little dry/clinical maybe, but that's only twenty pages in. Is it just too by-the-numbers or something? |
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Shapermc
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| simplicio wrote: | | Any particular reason? It seems a little dry/clinical maybe, but that's only twenty pages in. Is it just too by-the-numbers or something? |
I recall something about too navel gazing? I don't know, ask Sergei. Perhaps he just knows my habbits too well.
So! Galactic Pot Healer by P.K. Dick was really, really excelllent. I may have no taste or something, but I enjoyed the higher level of sci-fantasy than I have seen in any other Dick book. I never claimed to have good taste, but this really shined.
I have a 10 hour drive to and from St. Louis (each way) when I visit my wife and I found Galactic Pot Healer (the only PK Dick book) on a audiobook website, so I grabbed it. As I have said before, Dick can't name a book to save his life.
This is actually about a man who's profession is to heal ceramic pots.
So yea, there is this game that these cubicle workers play that YOU CAN ACTUALLY PLAY. And it is pretty great. I acutually use to mess with a forum by playing this game.
Go to any translating service (bablefish) and type something: i.e. The Galactic Pot Healer. Then have it translate to Japanese and get this: 銀河の鍋の治療師 . You then take that and translate it back to english: "Remedy teacher of Milky Way pot"
These cubicle workers would try to take the wittiest things and have other people figure out what the hell the original name was with only 5 minutes to guess. It blew me away, becuase I have done something very similar also as a game out of boredom. This was originally published in 1969! This is why I like Dick so much (I guess... I love the cock!) he got a lot of the sci-fi right or very damn close. I mean, there are also VIAGRA (under a different name) on the radio in this book and they sound... just like Viagra ads.
I must not read or get out a lot, but this was a seriously fantastic book.
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GSL
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Shapermc wrote: | | (I guess... I love the cock!) |
You heard it here first, folks!
Juvenile wordplay aside, I forgot to ask you when you were gushing about this book earlier today: is it indeed a full-length novel, or was it part of a larger collection of PKD shorts? I don't pretend to be terribly familiar with his full catalog, but the name of the story struck no spark of recognition within my bosom. |
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Szczepaniak
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: |
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I started reading the uncensored version of Babi Yar today, English version.
I've not read a heavy book in a while, and I find these days my attention span is painfully short (I still feel guilty about not having yet finished Sergei's second novella, I will ! At some point!), short to the point where I think I might be ill. Or suffering from stress.
But it seems... chillingly interesting so far (digging through human remains for gold teeth/rings/etc at the start made me stop and think).
Has anyone else read it? A good book? I found it in a big box of old books my folks gave me, in the loft.
(damn, you know you're working too hard when you feel guilty about making free time to read a book. And don't bring up TV, I haven't watched any in weeks!) |
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Shapermc
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| Greatsaintlouis wrote: | | I forgot to ask you when you were gushing about this book earlier today: is it indeed a full-length novel, or was it part of a larger collection of PKD shorts? I don't pretend to be terribly familiar with his full catalog, but the name of the story struck no spark of recognition within my bosom. |
Yup. I mean, it is not very long, but it is a stand alone novel. It is like less than $10 at amazon.
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Szczepaniak
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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Gotten further in Babi Yar. Just past the cannabalism part.
I must say, the utter despair that it portrays is slightly re-assuring. It's good to know that the world has always been dreadful (even more so than it is now), and that this isn't some kind of new thing. 
Yeah, I can't really add anything to that.
It's good reading, it puts things into perspective. |
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seryogin
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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I'd rather read about Stalingrad again.
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Scratchmonkey
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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I finished Puzo's "Godfather". It was pretty good and it made an interesting comparison with the movie in terms of what was kept, what was omitted and what was changed. It made me want to rent the EA game and see how it related to the book and movie.
I know that dhex has mentioned that there's a novel by Puzo that is insanely good. I can't remember what it was. If somebody were to mention it, I would be very thankful.
I'm in the middle of a ton of books, the most recent one being Stokesbury's "A Brief History of the American Revolution". I've picked up a lot of information that I was previously unaware of.
ETA: Turns out the book that Mr. Hexler was talking about was "Fools Die" and it was mentioned on the IC boards, which is what was confusing me. |
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GSL
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| If you enjoyed The Godfather, I recommend picking up The Family as well. It retains Puzo's ability to tell an amazing story (despite being finished posthumously by his wife!), but concerns historical events ala the Italian Renaissance rather than New York mafiosos. The Family is about Pope Alexander VI (nee Rodrigo Borgia) and his illegitimately fathered children (his son, Cesare, was inspiration for Machiavelli's The Prince) in what was arguably the height of corruption in the Roman Catholic church. A gripping read, even if historical fiction isn't your thing. |
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dhex
Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6319
Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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| Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I know that dhex has mentioned that there's a novel by Puzo that is insanely good. |
fools die.
really.
godfather is a pretty good book. makes you wonder why they made a third movie.
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simplicio
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Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 1091
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: |
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[quote="dhex"] | Quote: |
godfather is a pretty good book. makes you wonder why they made a third movie. |
I thought we all did that anyway?
Edit: But anyway, I picked up Fools Die today. If it sucks you owe me a beer or something.
PS: Mario Puzo needs a new cover artist. Seriously. If it weren't for you I wouldn't have ever touched this shit with a 10 foot pole. Though I guess it's practically his own typeface at this point and is generally instantly recognizable to everyone in the western hemisphere. So perhaps I lose. |
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dhex
Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6319
Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: |
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so i got miller's "on the death of mishima" essay book thingy today. it was in excellent condition for a softcover from 1972/73, virtually no acid wear or anything. it's quite good...he actually talks about mishima and everything.
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seryogin
JRPG Kommissar
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 886
Location: Occupied Stalingrad
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:56 am Post subject: |
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You must let me borrow it one day.
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: |
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I started reading "Ubik" last night. That was probably a mistake because it caused much missing of sleep. All of a sudden it was 1:30am and I needed to be up in 5 hours. I told myself, just 'til I finish this chapter... which turned into 2:30am because I read a couple more.
Damn Ubik is good.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
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"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:58 am Post subject: |
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I'm going to through in some opinions about some funny-books that I got out of the library this week.
Firstly, I picked up the first hardcover collection of Bone. I liked it pretty good. You could tell that by the end of the collection that we were hitting Narrative City; however, I liked that better than the kind of Sunday-edition-cartoon adventures that dominated most of the book. It made me feel like tracking down more collections and seeing where it goes.
Secondly was Frank Miller's The Dark Night Returns. It must be said that I've been told about how this was the figurative shit, how it was part of the reimagining of superheroes, etc. I can see, compared to how superhero comics were, how it was shaking things up and represented something fresh and new. That said, it didn't hold up.
The main problem is that Miller has certain motifs that make you want to drive to his house, sneak up to him while he's sleeping and scream "I GET IT ALREADY" in his ear. Primary among these was his use of media figures discussing the events that had occured in the comic in pro- and con- Batman formats. There's absolutely no subtlety to these sequences and they re-occur at a ridiculous rate, becoming the equivalent of someone making a mediocre point then adding 18 exclamation marks and enough underlines that they wind up breaking their pencil.
I have other issues with it as well that are comparatively minor in comparison. I'd like to go back to Killing Joke and Arkham Asylum, which I both really enjoyed (and read closer to their dates of release) and see if I have a similar reaction. |
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:11 am Post subject: |
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| Scratchmonkey wrote: | | Firstly, I picked up the first hardcover collection of Bone. I liked it pretty good. You could tell that by the end of the collection that we were hitting Narrative City; however, I liked that better than the kind of Sunday-edition-cartoon adventures that dominated most of the book. It made me feel like tracking down more collections and seeing where it goes. |
it gets very, very dark.
it gets very, very good.
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Toto
4th Man
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| Scratchmonkey wrote: | .Secondly was Frank Miller's The Dark Night Returns. It must be said that I've been told about how this was the figurative shit, how it was part of the reimagining of superheroes, etc. I can see, compared to how superhero comics were, how it was shaking things up and represented something fresh and new. That said, it didn't hold up.
The main problem is that Miller has certain motifs that make you want to drive to his house, sneak up to him while he's sleeping and scream "I GET IT ALREADY" in his ear. Primary among these was his use of media figures discussing the events that had occured in the comic in pro- and con- Batman formats. There's absolutely no subtlety to these sequences and they re-occur at a ridiculous rate, becoming the equivalent of someone making a mediocre point then adding 18 exclamation marks and enough underlines that they wind up breaking their pencil.
I have other issues with it as well that are comparatively minor in comparison. I'd like to go back to Killing Joke and Arkham Asylum, which I both really enjoyed (and read closer to their dates of release) and see if I have a similar reaction. |
As a fan of Batman myself, I kind of disagree with your thoughts on The Dark Knight Returns.
It's true; the news segements are a bit like "RONALD REAGAN LOLZ", and very obvious. They also do occur at much to frequently.
But the amount of absolutely wonderful sequences redeem the book. See: Batmans return to the hood, the sequence in the rain. The huge and epic climactic battle at the end. The acknowledgement of predicament in the fight with the gang boss in the mud pit.
Miller's art works really well in this one (as oppose to it looking a bit stupid in The Dark Knight Returns AGAIN, or whatever it's called). Especially when the Joker...you know...it was powerful. Damn powerful.
As for participation in this thread, I find these days I don't get time to read anymore. This year in the Australian school system is the last; it determines what I can do at Uni, and I need a certain mark. So, I study, and shit around. Books are like intense recreation; not light hearted, because you need to think. So I don't read much.
I look forward to reading more in Uni.
The last thing I tried to read was Paul Virilio's The Information Bomb. It was very interesting, but very difficult to read, as I'm new to philosophy. So I couldn't handle it. |
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OtakupunkX
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 730
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Scratchmonkey wrote: | | Firstly, I picked up the first hardcover collection of Bone. I liked it pretty good. You could tell that by the end of the collection that we were hitting Narrative City; however, I liked that better than the kind of Sunday-edition-cartoon adventures that dominated most of the book. It made me feel like tracking down more collections and seeing where it goes. |
There's actually a softcovergraphic novel that collects all of the previous Bone releases in one gigantic book. I saw it at a book store (can't remember which one, might've been Borders) the other day. It's really expensive. |
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Swimmy
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 990
Location: Fairfax, VA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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I liked Dark Knight Returns all right. It gets worse after the Joker sequence.
Most of the books I read these days are econ only. If I could afford it I would pick up Dr. Frank's King Dork.
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simplicio
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Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 1091
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| OtakupunkX wrote: |
There's actually a softcovergraphic novel that collects all of the previous Bone releases in one gigantic book. I saw it at a book store (can't remember which one, might've been Borders) the other day. It's really expensive. |
Expensive? I first saw it for $40, and this was after buying each volume separately. I was kinda kicking myself for that one. |
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| OtakupunkX wrote: | | There's actually a softcovergraphic novel that collects all of the previous Bone releases in one gigantic book. I saw it at a book store (can't remember which one, might've been Borders) the other day. It's really expensive. |
yeah, it's not that expensive. i own it.
i'm either going to sell it or donate it to the library at my old school (which has an active comic book community - a few years ago i gave them the complete sandman).
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Toto wrote: | But the amount of absolutely wonderful sequences redeem the book. See: Batmans return to the hood, the sequence in the rain. The huge and epic climactic battle at the end. The acknowledgement of predicament in the fight with the gang boss in the mud pit.
Miller's art works really well in this one (as oppose to it looking a bit stupid in The Dark Knight Returns AGAIN, or whatever it's |
Keep in mind that I don't really read comics. I dabble in it from time to time and I own a small collection of mainly artsy-fartsy stuff. I wasn't really that excited by any of the things you mentioned.
I also picked up the Moebius 2 collection which is wonderful, mainly for the art. |
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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I read Arkham Asylum for the first time late last year. While the art was amazing... I am not a huge Batman fan nor very knowledgable in it. But the art was great. The covers of the Sandman series is what drew me towards them in the first place. I still have first edition hardcover printings of most of the graphic novel compelations for Sandman.
Anyways, I am firmly convinced that PK Dick is one of the greatest writers ever. I aim to read as much of his (million) books as possible.
_________________
“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Shapermc wrote: | | The covers of the Sandman series is what drew me towards them in the first place. |
dave mckean's work is wonderful. didn't he and neil gaiman do a movie recently?
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dhex
Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6319
Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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and the covers of eyes of stanley pain and 3, the two best download albums evar.
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