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parkbench
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Anyway, is it the attention from others that ends up turning you off to a game? Or is it the fact that you have actually bothered to learn about it enough to think it might not be up your alley. If this is the case, you don't need to defend yourself, and we probably don't need to have a thread about it. It seems to me as though you're taking intelligent (or, at least, reasoned) decisions you have made and misattributing them to some impulse. |
Well, think about it this way. I hear about Crysis. Don't know too much about it. I read up a little. "Revolutionary this, revolutionary that." Watch some videos. My interest is piqued, but not enough to go out and play it or pursue it in any real way.
Then I hear people over and over again saying how amazing the game is--the great things it's doing. This puts some kind of vague notion in my head. Then I see the game actually being played. What they've said does not correlate to what I see, which looks decidedly boring.
Now I'm in a predicament. It looks to me like this game isn't too fun, yet people are goading me from all sides to play it. Conclusion: these people do not have the same tastes as me and all the froth surrounding this game is delusional. I'm not saying I am always right or I have the greatest of taste--not by a long shot; there's plenty a game I was doubtful about and then subsequently changed my mind. But there are also the cases where the hype just proves to me how impatient some players are.
Something like that. I mean I recognise Crysis has some pretty cool stuff going for it but I also guarantee you, absolutely guarantee you, that's it's 100% forgettable. It's the equivalent of the summer blockbuster, and in a few years it'll be a blurb in a margin, just like Call of Duty 4, just like Painkiller, and all those other HOLY SHITZ FPSes that are released with pretty much consistency all throughout the year. I saw the environmental and habitat/building destruction aspects of the game, and they were indeed very interesting. Too bad the rest is target practice, against guys who take 40 shots to kill, plus a really tired super-soldier aesthetic to boot. Why would I play Crysis when I can play System Shock 2 and feel better about myself?
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Man I am not usually one to froth* and I think that you're pretty wrong about Crysis.
I mean, not that you will like it; however, it's certainly not on the same level of Painkiller in terms of not doing anything particularly interesting (only doing what it does well enough to be fun to some).
Of course I realize that this is probably only going to make you think that you're even more right*. Life goes on! (I just needed to roll my eyes at you rolling your eyes.)
* - And not absolutely into FPSs per se.
** - As much as anybody can be "right" about something that they haven't experienced. |
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dhex
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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system shock 2 is an fps rpg with real-time cyborgs.
crysis is, well, fucking awesome. and has far fewer cyborgs.
no one has to play it, of course, and not everyone is going to be able to play it anyway. painkiller is more to the doom end of fps games, if we were going to set up an axis; whereas something like the shock is on the other end of the spectrum with more heavy rpg aspects to it.
i also like single player fps games more than, well, nearly everything else, to the point of absurdity most likely. i love the ss/ultima underworld/deus ex side of things a lot more than i like the doom side of things. i find doom basically unplayable now - compared to say quake or quake 2 even. (let us not speak of quake 4) i found painkiller pretty repetitive (which is why i'm selling it) and that's basically an updated doom-style fps.
speaking of which i gotta go pick up anachronox and maybe buy arx fatalis from steam some day.
and, if you like the cod style of war fps games, then cod4 is a great addition to that. it's not as good as cod2 but not every war can have stalingrad. the ac130 segment is a pretty memorable bit but nothing is as crushing as stalingrad.
so let's see my fps compass would go something like:
FPS (doom) <----> FPS-RPG (system shock)
with perhaps the updown axis being pacing - "slow" shooters like the rpg hybrids, and fast shooters like doom etc.
crysis would sit around the middle left bit of the axis. it's not quite a hybrid by any stretch, but it's no doom either.
ps just had more root canal done and i'm higher than shit so i have no idea what's going on.
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sarsamis
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Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: |
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I just skimmed this thread real fast, and honestly didn't read most of the post above this one due to time constraints and the fact that I'm trying to pay attention to a lecture, but:
| dhex wrote: | | FPS (doom) <----> FPS-RPG (system shock) |
Doom is rather far from the modern image of an FPS imo. The original at least, (never played the others) was mostly about exploration and clever dungeon design, with a survival aspect thrown in. I'd go so far to say that I enjoyed Doom for the same reason that I enjoyed dungeons in older Zelda games. I'm not sure what the epitome of FPS gameplay is, but it would have to be something more linear, also something with a Y axis, and that takes things like head shots into account. |
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dhex
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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actually doom lives on through games like painkiller and serious sam. cartoon shooter that's more about blowing stuff up than even navigating 3d space, really.
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Shapermc
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Doom lives on through Xbox Live Arcade!
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Hospital Zone
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Joined: 30 Jan 2008
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Location: The Canadas: Kelowna
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| friedchicken wrote: | I feel like I need to bring up another side of things: there are a bunch of games that I would probably never have bothered with (or maybe even heard about) if not for being pointed toward them by people whose opinions (and taste in games) I trust. And there have been hits and misses, but it's all input.
As for letting peoples' froth over games sway you, I don't know... when it's just 'everyone on the internet' losing their shit over Halo, it's different from having someone you know swearing it's the best game ever. |
I think that media hype can have it's affect on gamers in detrimental ways, and I can say with confidence that fan-boys/girls can be frustrating. That level of devotion, on the surface, can look ignorant. It's not always the case of course, I'm only saying that pushing a fan 'image' seems irrelevant to the game itself, and is not evidence for 'the best game ever'. Seeing the mass hype for games like Halo and Crysis make me want to avoid them, but I try not to write games off until I've sat down with them for a bit. Sometimes, I'll do this in secret, so none of my Nentendo friends notice I'm flirting with Master Chief on the side. Remember Legend of the Seven Stars? When I first saw that rpg I thought that something had gone seriously wrong with gaming, (Mario + HP!?) but it turned out to be a favorite of mine for a long time. In that case, I bent to the froth of my friends and got a good time out of it. I was happy to have been wrong just to try it.
Wide sweeping internet hype/memes also give me a bit of a gag reflex for games. I haven't played Portal yet, and am pretty turned off by things like the Companion Cube t-shirt, animation, and joke culture I see spreading. Maybe I'm too serious of a guy though. I come here for news on new games now, and I can say that thanks to the froth, friendly acclaim, and anti-froth, Portal is a game I'll try. I don't want the perfect game. We need flaws and nay-sayers for the inspiration to make progressive games. Portal probably deserves some of the froth and anti-froth it gets. I'll have to wait and see though.
Playing sports games will always hurt me to do, but I've had some good times playing particular games with particular friends, like the early Blitz games, or NHL 97. I'd never try that shit on my own time. Mario Strikers is being pushed on me right now, and I think it looks stupid, but I'll probably have fun playing the occasional round with that one friend who raves about it. I think the experience of play can add up to more than the sum of the game itself. Sometimes anyway. It's harder maybe, to get past a game or genre's flaws in a one player experience.
And hi, by the way.
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Last edited by Hospital Zone on Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| The Strikers engine is pretty good (it's the same one as in Sega Soccer Slam, if you remember that game). I'd go so far to say that it's the best small-side soccer engine made, so long as realism isn't a big deal to you. |
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digi
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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Location: the Canadas, k-town, The Mission
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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I would probably say Strikers is only actively awesome when you're playing with a full four people.
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Shapermc
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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For a second I thought you were talking about the OTHER Strikers and I would have said "Actually, Giga Wing 2 is the four player STG that you're thinking of" then I realized you were talking about Soccer, which... pffft.
I realized that this thread has made me think that I'm more often than not just disapointed (both with the game and myself) with games that I buy into the hype about.
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digi
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Ha ha oh yes [i]that[/i ]Strikers needs not multiplayer to be made awesome by any means.
God so good.
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boojiboy7
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Location: Yeah, THAT Cleveland.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I haven't played the Wii Strikers yet, but Sega Soccer Slam was way better than the GC Mario Strikers. |
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SuperWes
Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| helicopterp wrote: | | Wes, why do you despise it? |
It's just a personal thing really. It's a good game if what it does well is really what you want out of a shooter, but it's exactly the opposite of what I look for in a shooter.
#1 I like single player games a lot better than multi-player games and it doesn't have any sort of single player.
#2 I like my multiplayer games to allow you to go in guns blazing and take home all of the glory by yourself if you're good enough and Team Fortress requires teamwork to get anywhere.
#3 I like my multiplayer games to require teamwork to win if you're playing against people who would normally be better than you. TF2 has this, but at the expense of #2.
#4 I prefer a controller to a mouse and keyboard, and TF2 on Xbox was just dumped onto the console without enough adjustments to make it play right.
#5 I prefer to play my multiplayer games in split-screen mode with other people in the same room so that tactics can be shared. TF2 doesn't even let you play 2-players unless you're playing online/system link.
#6 I like games that reward you for constantly improving at the basics rather than rewarding you for knowing tricks and exploits the other players might not know. Team fortress is all about exploiting tricks.
#7 I prefer maps that can be mostly comprehended by the player at-a-glance, but have hidden depth that gets revealed through repeat plays. This is sort of an extension of #6. Team Fortress has some maps like this, but many are so big that they just seem like messes of hallways connecting giant rooms.
#8 Some of the classes are really fun to play as and totally annoying for everyone else. The spy class is a good example. Some people might disagree with this, but I hate having to deal with that shit.
#9 There are too many idiots with internet access. They might not be calling you "gay" every time you die TF2, but because of the game's structure you can't mute the assholes without it seriously affecting your game.
So yeah, I know most of this stuff could be cleared up if I just put some time into the game, but with so much riding against it I'd rather not.
-Wes
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Harveyjames
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| RAINY WOODS |
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Cycle
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:21 am Post subject: |
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harvey try to keep the nerd rage to a minimum, alright
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Harveyjames
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Hey Cycle
How are you getting on with Earthbound? |
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Cycle
Mac daddy
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: |
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The intro and first 15 or so minutes of the game are still the most awesome EVER, but the battles are getting in the way too much, so I'm thinking of using game genie codes to make my character uber-powerful so most enemies are a push over or don't come near me. I don't have the patience to put up with all the battles these days... though it's appreciated that you can see them coming!
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Harveyjames
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Man it gets awesomer.
Assuming you're playing on an emulator, you should bind a key to 'speed up' and then set battles to auto, so you can just fast forward through them. |
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Cycle
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:57 am Post subject: |
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I've played it before, I know it gets better!! It's one of the very, VERY few jRPGs I've actually finished. And one of those jRPGs was American!
I'm kinda torn, to be honest. I love the WAA IM STONED style of the battles and the music and enemies are awesome, but the battle system itself is really bland (and taken straight from DQ, I'm told) and they are too frequent. Really, I just want to soak up the world, characters and... everything else.
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Harveyjames
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: |
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I like how each new character adds a new element of strategy! Tip: Jeff is all about the bottle rockets when fighting bosses.
Other tip: Itoi wanted Earthbound to be exactly like Dragon Quest but with different graphics, so that is why it is like it is. He said 'this is a Dragon Quest clone' pretty much from the start. |
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Cycle
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: |
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Eh, maybe I'll put up with the battles a little longer then. Couldn't have been that bad if I finished it all those years ago.
I wish America was really like how it's portrayed in this game 
Harveyjams, what is your view on jRPGs? How many have you completed and which ones?
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Harveyjames
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| Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Earthbound is the only one I've completed. It took me a long time to realise it, but turn-based battles kind of annoy me. I was willing to put up with it for Earthbound, though, since it's so cleverly written and designed. Although- there is Pokemon, I guess. I've reached the ending sequence in quite a few Pokemon games. I think because the battles are such an integral part of the gameplay, and the actual story is unimportant, it works. Shit, my Pokemon Ruby had 100 hours clocked up on it, that's how much I like those games. I'm giving the DS one a miss because I know how much I would be consumed by it.
So what I should say is turn-based battles are good when they're appropriate. If I feel like the battles are getting in the way of the game I want to play, then I don't like them. Earthbound could have been better without the battles, but then it wouldn't be Earthbound. But basically, there's nothing compelling to me about watching a shitty anime that takes 60 hours to watch because you keep getting booted out of it to play dungeons and dragons.
Having said that, I really like early Akira Toriyama, so I was wondering which pre-playstation Dragon Quest game I should try. If anyone can recommend one, that would be great! |
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Hospital Zone
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Joined: 30 Jan 2008
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Location: The Canadas: Kelowna
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Cycle wrote: | | The intro and first 15 or so minutes of the game are still the most awesome EVER, but the battles are getting in the way too much, so I'm thinking of using game genie codes to make my character uber-powerful so most enemies are a push over or don't come near me. I don't have the patience to put up with all the battles these days... though it's appreciated that you can see them coming! |
If I can make a suggestion, before you start skipping out on battles, try to find yourself some of the enemies wandering the streets of Twoson. I've always loved hunting down New Age Retro Hippies and Unassuming Local Guys. Earthbound has the great charm of making some random battles fun to experience, or like you also said, how you just want to experience the world and characters. Hippies will use toothbrushes and rulers on you, which is a terrifying experience apparently. I guess I'd be shocked too if a New Age Retro Hippie walked up to me on the street and brushed his teeth at me. I'd miss turns after that experience.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Onett is a pretty rough place to live all in all. They have a serious stray dog problem for one thing.
Oh yeah so which is the best Dragon Quest game? Have any of you guys played any of those games? |
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digi
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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Location: the Canadas, k-town, The Mission
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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I hear 4 is pretty great. I've got that for my DS somewhere around here!
VIII and Monsters: Joker are all that I've played so far, but I think they're pretty awesome.
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Swimmy
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Harveyjames wrote: | Onett is a pretty rough place to live all in all. They have a serious stray dog problem for one thing.
Oh yeah so which is the best Dragon Quest game? Have any of you guys played any of those games? |
Hi.
Play Dragon Quest 1 remake (SNES or GBC, don't touch the original) if you want perspective on the history of RPGs and would like to beat an RPG in an afternoon for once. Play Dragon Quest 5 if you want a game that knows what nostalgia is about and also if you want to know what's up with monster-collecting RPGs and also if you want to play the most poignant game. Play Dragon Quest VII if you want to play about 25 different and short Dragon Quest games packed into one ridiculously long game. Play Dragon Quest VIII if you like watching the sun set.
Play Dragon Quest III remake (again, SNES or GBC, though I don't think the SNES ROM has been translated) if you want to know why people like these games, but ONLY AFTER you've played the original--preferably more than once. Most preferably if you love the hell out of it.
In other words, play DQV or play DQ and then DQ3.
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JasonMoses
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Harveyjames wrote: |
Oh yeah so which is the best Dragon Quest game? Have any of you guys played any of those games? |
I love the hellll out of the DQ3 remake on the gameboy color. It's got a big world with continents modeled after the real world's, with an astonishing sense of wonder to go along with it. It's been a long time since I last played it, but I think you'd dig it assuming that you're in the frame of mind necessary to play a Dragon Quest and all that. |
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boojiboy7
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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Location: Yeah, THAT Cleveland.
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Man, I remember DQ1 being this epic length quest that whole huge chunks of my childhood were spent on. It...really is pretty damn short, but that is fine by me. |
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks! |
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Ketch
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Earthbound should be an adventure game! I got to the desert before giving up on it. Love the style don't like the play. I`ve had enough of epic games. If only there were more `short story` games. Or at least better paced games with less padding and better game-story duality. |
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digi
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| Ketch wrote: | | Earthbound...I got to the desert before giving up on it. |
D:
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dhex
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: |
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to fit into the original poster's theme, and very much contra swimmy's severe (some may say insane) dedication, dragon warrior 7 pretty much killed every other jrpg for me, partially because people were so very much into it. as i'm fond of repeating until everyone wants to bean me with a 2x4, when i played dw7 i was not only unemployed but smoking more tweed than a rapper with a trust fund, and i found it horrifically boring. not only that, it made me angry when i realized just how long it was going to be and just how much grinding was involved, so i said goodbye to the whole genre. (there were other factors, like grandia 2 - har har - and final fantasy 10's literal I HATE YOU DAD/GOD/DAD/GOD/DAD routine)
that said, dw1, like ff1, is oddly playable even now, though probably better because it is so much shorter. (i would actually recommend the nes version of ultima 4 over all of them because the graphics are really great and the music is good and the story is far more interesting, but it may not be your thing.) i remember dw3 being very enjoyable, if odd looking, but i can't tell you why. it was just far too long ago.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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... I didn't last long with any of those games, I'm sorry
They don't really offer anything I can't get from reading early Dragon Ball. They offer a lot less, in fact.
Plus, I don't like the interface. It doesn't even have satisfying menu noises like Earthbound. I'm trundling around brown environments searching barrels and treasure chests is what I'm doing. The battles don't even have nice pictures! What!
Seriously, if you like Dragon Quest or Blue Dragon I sincerely recommend reading early Dragon Ball. It's exactly like these games but with better pictures, better action, funnier, no boring pressing buttons and don't take god knows how many hours to get through.
I could see how they could be good, though! But I'm not sure they are :( |
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