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Crazy Bacon Lips .
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 88 Location: Ol' Virginny
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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It runs really well, although it might crash once in a blue moon. If you are on a laptop, find a two-button mouse. Playing with a trackpad is not fun at all. Make sure you are using the latest version of DOSBOX because it does NOT RUN WELL AT ALL with the older ones. The game has ridiculous physics and you will fall in water a lot on the first floor, and trudging through that is not fun, however I do not want you to be put off by that because it's totally awesome in a variety of other ways that I do not care to explain now because I am a tired little boy. I will write about it tomorrow. |
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ryan .
Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 999
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Scratchmonkey wrote: | I played a ton of Myth and Myth 2 back in the day -- they had the same problem with online, where it was all about being able to pull back your units at the absolute last second, which not only made it not too fun to play, it also made it not too fun to watch. |
Oh, I misunderstood, I was thinking more along the lines of single player.
The only game I've played that I've yet to see any specific patterns emerge - like build times and whatnot - is Massive Assault. It's not as uninviting as the Earth series, but it seems pretty cold initially. Although about the only thing one can do in Kohan is just find the right mix of output/input in their cities, but that's not quite the same as knowing the seconds it takes for a unit to walk across the screen or for a building to be erected. _________________ Come to me, Mordel. We shall depart.
Last edited by ryan on Tue May 15, 2007 11:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dongle .
Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 290
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Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | does ultima underworld run in dosbox? |
Yes. Well, at that. Try to get MT-32 emulation working. |
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Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 4:07 am Post subject: |
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There is a patch for both Ultima Underworld games
that makes them run perfectly under new operating systems. _________________
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Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: |
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Thanks to dhex, I've been playing Project Snowblind, which I've been curious about since it started as a Deus Ex spin-off. It's still very clearly a Deus Ex spin-off, and very much how I expect an action orientated Deus Ex to play. There are optional objectives, there are multiple ways to approach a situation (the parking garage was a riot), and you can hack terminals and there are biomods and yada. Obviously it's all stream-lined for an action game, but I actually think it works pretty well. I'm enjoying it. If Deus Ex 2 was actually not a dissapointment, this would have been a great spin-off. But considering the reaction to IW, I can see why they decided to turn this into an original IP. I'd like to think the story and characters would have been a bit better in the original write up, too.
So yeah, been a blast so far. The story and characters are interesting enough, action movie stuff, not deus exy stuff but still entertaining. The levels could have been a bit bigger (or just featured one or two open areas), but hey. Great popcorn game, really.
He also sent me boiling point, but I probably won't play that for awhile since I finally started Pathologic yesterday. I post-poned that for Snowblind since I was really in the mood for something requiring less intelligence. _________________
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | DHEX stop playing Ultima 7 and play Ultima Underworld. It's where all the quality's at. |
while underworld one is indeed a gem, i always thought the strangely alien underworld II was actually more boffo. i had the floppies for both once upon a time. whence they whence i know not.
shit, i used to have the original boxes for nearly everything, from u3 on up. i'll be damned if i could tell you where everything went. all those cloth maps and goofy coins...
ultima 7 part 2 is still the best of the best in my memory.
perhaps the key then is to play through from 4 to 7.5? _________________
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Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:06 am Post subject: |
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We all know Ultima 7 was all about Scientology and how full of shit it is, right?
I was reminded of this after the guy who made Scientology PWNED was taking in by the police about his game and "urged" to change the name of the game.
Also, that whole incident with that BBC guy screaming at the Schientology guy. _________________
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: |
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hey, could someone please direct me to a list of controls for ultima underworld? in particular, i would really like to know how to jump. _________________
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Ethoscapade .
Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 276
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | pirates if it's alright i can get the snes game for four dollars so i think i'm gonna go ahead seeing as it's vital to my star fox 2 project anyways. |
does your gamedoctor let you piggyback coprocessors (sonic and knuckles style) or something? because if so, that's pretty neat. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: |
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mmmaybe. that's what i'm trying to find out. there's a slot on the game doctor to plug carts in - you can run a game through the doctor, so you don't have to remove it from the snes, but some games don't run right (running pilotwings through the game doctor gives me the ability to fly in parachute stages). star fox won't run at all through it.
i've heard that you can use co-processors of plugged-in carts when running games off disks, but it's possible it only works with later versions of the hardware (my game doctor's a 3). it's also possible it's just not true.
dessgeega wrote: | hey, could someone please direct me to a list of controls for ultima underworld? in particular, i would really like to know how to jump. |
found it. _________________
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Ethoscapade .
Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 276
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:38 am Post subject: |
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if you've got an actual star fox cart, try running a rom of stunt race FX with star fox piggybacked and i'd think you'll have your answer right there.
for reference (from memory):
C4: megaman x2 & x3
DSP: pilotwings and mario kart
SFX: star fox, stunt race, vortex
SFX2: doom, yoshi's island, (star fox 2?)
SA-1: kirby superstar, mario rpg |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: |
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So, I remember playing an Ultima game in the early ninties and really not liking it. Is it worth exploring again in an attempt to enjoy it? Where should I start if this is the case? _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:59 am Post subject: |
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shaper if you don't dig the early pc rpg aesthetics you won't really dig any of them i think it's safe to say.
i would say start with five. maybe. ehhh. that's a hard question actually. _________________
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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dhex wrote: | shaper if you don't dig the early pc rpg aesthetics you won't really dig any of them i think it's safe to say. |
I kind of assumed this. But I remember you saying that Crawl reminded you of Ultima and I thought "... just maybe I missed something back then." Ya know? _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Ethoscapade wrote: | if you've got an actual star fox cart, try running a rom of stunt race FX with star fox piggybacked and i'd think you'll have your answer right there. |
you are smart. i am going to do this.
i second five. it's still my favorite in the series (providing the runes of virtue games don't count, and i'm pretty sure they don't). _________________
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:37 am Post subject: |
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ok then five it is!
shapes if you don't have it i can hook you up. there's also a modernization pack that runs off of dungeon seige if you have that. (i don't and frankly, i think the original is very charming) _________________
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: |
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dhex wrote: | shapes if you don't have it i can hook you up. there's also a modernization pack that runs off of dungeon seige if you have that. (i don't and frankly, i think the original is very charming) |
I don't have dungeon seige, and I checked home of the underdogs and they don't have Ultima V, so yeah, if you could hook me up I'll give it a whirl one day. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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Crazy Bacon Lips .
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Posts: 88 Location: Ol' Virginny
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:47 am Post subject: |
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dhex wrote: | Quote: | DHEX stop playing Ultima 7 and play Ultima Underworld. It's where all the quality's at. |
while underworld one is indeed a gem, i always thought the strangely alien underworld II was actually more boffo. i had the floppies for both once upon a time. whence they whence i know not.
shit, i used to have the original boxes for nearly everything, from u3 on up. i'll be damned if i could tell you where everything went. all those cloth maps and goofy coins...
ultima 7 part 2 is still the best of the best in my memory.
perhaps the key then is to play through from 4 to 7.5? |
My ex-girlfriend's older brother had both Ultima Underworlds, Crusader: No Remorse, all three Dooms, and several King's Quest games in their original boxes, with all of their original inserts. She broke up with me before I could take them.
FACT: Warren Spector did Serpent Isle.
I have trouble playing Ultima IV because whenever I go outside my character leaps around and such and ends up getting killed by a sea monster. I really, really want to play it, though. What am I supposed to do in the beginning?
Shaper, there's a rumor going around that Abandonia has Ultima 5. |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
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stay away from the sea for a while. then uh, go forth and do good works! _________________
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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i tried stunt race fx with star fox plugged in the slot: it wouldn't run. boo!
i reached all the outrun goals with my intermediate b car, though. (and fuck that one sharp left turn in skyscrapers, which may as well be a brick wall. as long as i can get through the twist at the end of jungle without crashing, though, i can recover from messing up that left.) instead of moving on to a "professional" class car, i'm going to use this opportunity to take a break from outrun 2006. nights should be arriving soon, and i think that game will benefit from receiving the time i've been giving to outrun. (my total time at outrun so far is twelve hours and forty-four minutes, at that was spent entirely in outrun mode.)
i think, of all the pre-guardian ultima games, five is probably the easiest to get into. start by just traveling up and down the coast, visiting towns, meeting people and recruiting allies (and learning when to avoid towns). when you're feeling daring, seek out empath abbey. when you've got some money, buy a small boat. when you're feeling capable, take on the dungeons. you're really free to set your own pace. _________________
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D-A-I-S .
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 123
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Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | hey, could someone please direct me to a list of controls for ultima underworld? in particular, i would really like to know how to jump. |
re: old Ultima games and their documentation, you should seriously be rocking replacementdocs |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:13 am Post subject: |
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thanks dais!
i flashed doom gba while waiting for doom snes to show up. there's something really pleasing about being able to play doom on a gba micro. the controls work really well; the fact that you can only move and fire on a horizontal axis makes it easy to manuever with just a d-pad and shoulder buttons. the green blood is bizarre, though. you'll find blood-stains on the floor that look like patches of moss; piles of bones look like bizarre martian plants. _________________
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Koyetay .
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 11 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:27 am Post subject: |
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My god, Elebits is ludicrously fun. I don't marathon game very often, so for me to spend three solid hours on a game is something.
I've been kind of surprised at the number of levels. I just made it to 21. The anti-grav levels were wonderfully absurd. The boss battles feel like they've had some thought put into them. Ever time I think all the possibilities have been exhausted, I find something new.
I started thinking of Elebits as the second coming of Katamari. Now I'm starting to see it as something altogether more. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:21 am Post subject: |
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my third attempt at clearing the second route through star fox has ended in failure. seriously, the boss of venom's airspace is hard. the stage before i got my ass saved by a space whale though.
this game has really perfect presentation. it's as though they realized the engine itself was kind of jerky and knew they had to compensate by filling the game with character and charm and by making the game as cohesive an experience as possible. _________________
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ryan .
Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 999
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:34 am Post subject: |
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I'm now level 10 in Titan Quest. My character is currently a mage/fighter, with his primary being Fire and secondary being Combat - coming soon: dual wielding. My grandmother passed this morning, ending a nearly six-week struggle, so I sunk myself into the game as a means to distract myself; some people listen to music, some chain smoke, I beat the shit out of satyrs and zombies.
I'm also putting together a collection of older titles onto a disc, along with the apps to get them to run. Fun project time!
Also! System Shock Portable has been released! This is the original system shock that has been tweaked to run on newer systems (re: XP). It's called 'portable' because it can be played off the local hard drive or a jump drive. Link. _________________ Come to me, Mordel. We shall depart. |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:22 am Post subject: |
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ryan wrote: | Also! System Shock Portable has been released! This is the original system shock that has been tweaked to run on newer systems (re: XP). It's called 'portable' because it can be played off the local hard drive or a jump drive. Link. |
Ohh!!! I'm going to try this later. I'm excited. I haven't played this in YEARS. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:54 am Post subject: |
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cleared episode 1 of doom gba and havn't started episode 2 yet. i picked "not so rough" at the beginning, i think because i was expecting the controls to be awkward and hard to pick up, especially after playing the live arcade version. not so: the controls are pretty much perfect and consequently i've experienced little danger of dying so far. considering restarting on a higher difficulty but more likely going to plod ahead or wait for the snes game to arrive.
speaking of which, i found the unpatched star fox 2 rom and will probably try it when doom arrives, despite the stunt race experiment failing.
and speaking of star fox, i finally got around to playing star fox command. earlier i spoke of the original's excellent presentation: this is what command and the less recent star fox assault are lacking. (well, there's no shortage of other flaws either.) what has always made star fox (the original, the unreleased sequel, and star fox 64) so compelling, at least for me, is its seamless, almost cinematic approach to storytelling: a story that goes on around you, with you in the heart of it, while you're playing, influencing and influenced by your actions. star fox command is cutscenes, cutscenes, cutscenes. often full of melodrama and the most awkward animal crossing-speak i've heard from a game yet.
i'm not real big on how the game plays but i havn't really formulated an opinion on it yet. it's like star fox 2, i guess, in the way it tries to alternate between strategy and combat, but star fox 2's moments of strategy are quick decisions of priority, and its combat episodes make up much more of the playing time. i havn't gotten very far yet - i've cleared the star wolf fight that comes absolutely out of nowhere - so it could become something that works. finding enemy bases by rubbing the stylus over clouds is a dumb gimmick, though.
i am probably going to try that system shock later even though a bat has me hemmed into a corner in ultima underworld. _________________
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Ethoscapade .
Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 276
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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i think the implicit backstory of katt (implicit in all of four lines, if you actually go back and play the game) in star fox 64 is a pretty beautiful example of what you're getting at right there. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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falco's reaction to her tells you everything you need to know in a single spoken line. there's a failed relationship between fox and krystal in the backstory of star fox command and it would just work so much better if it was just hinted at instead of baldly stated in a text dump at the beginning of the game. these screens of text leave so little room for subtlety. _________________
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ApM Admin Rockstar
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1210 Location: Ottawa, ON
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Last night I played through Manhunter: San Francisco. I didn't intend to play through it, at first. I had recently been to San Francisco on a short business trip, and walked by a pier that I recognized from the game, and I wanted to figure out where it was so that I could potentially find a photograph of it.
The Manhunter games are simultaneously very progressive and very regressive. For example, they're the only Sierra games that don't punish you for dying (it took until Space Quest 6 for someone else to realize that a "Let's back up to just before you got yourself killed" button was a good idea). In some cases, it's even required that you do something that kills you once before the game will let you continue. And yet, there are also numerous ways to set yourself up so that you can't win, and the game will not tell you.
They're the first examples of point-and-click adventures with a smart cursor, but they have no mouse support.
The artwork is detailed, gritty, and often incredibly gory; except for the bits that are totally cartoonish -- splatting into a pancake onto the pavement and springing up, or hiking up your robe to reveal polka-dotted bloomers.
There's this awesome, absorbing mechanic of tracking a suspect's movements throughout the city on your computer, and then physically going to where they went to discern their identity, and what they were doing. And then there are some of the most obtuse, illogical puzzles ever devised -- one in particular has you connecting an unrelated comment made by the designers in one of their in-game snark screens ("Don't get your goose cooked!") with an unfinished message left in blood on a rock by a murder victim ("COO|...") to come up with a suspect's last name ("Cook"). You also have delightful things like the maze layout of an arcade game in a bar corresponding to the layout of an underground sewer maze that you have to navigate in first-person without a compass (and all those twisty passages look alike). Oh, and the most efficient way through the arcade game makes a pattern of knocked-down Kewpie dolls on the top of the screen that you have to match when you go to Coney Island and play Kewpie doll baseball. (These are all in Manhunter: New York, but Manhunter: San Francisco really isn't much better.)
I don't know how the developers went from that to Space Dude. Their website is pretty tragic. (I don't have any idea what's up with the link to "Crack Dog Video" at the bottom, but it is, in fact, a short film about a dog who smokes crack.) And it's seriously weird to consider that the artist who drew all those gruesome corpses and death animations now pretty much just paints pictures of ponies and kittens. |
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JasonMoses .
Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 407
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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I picked up Etrian Odyssey yesterday. I don't think I've played enough of it to make a genuine judgement about its quality yet, but I will say that I really, really like what I've seen so far. It's a tribute to first-person dungeon crawlers, which means you make your party at the adventurer's guild from a range of classes, map out the dungeon on the bottom screen as if it was a piece of graph paper, and fight monsters who are very distinctly harder-than-average. It just feels right though, in terms of flow. You prepare in town, see how far you can get into the dungeon (the thrill of discovery heightened palpably by the requirement to map everything yourself), develop your characters as they gain experience, risk-analyze situations as you start to run low on supplies, and warp out to repeat the process. The music is intentionally-FM Yuzo Kushiro, and it's excellent.
I would definitely recommend checking the game out if you get the chance - it seems right up the respective alleys of many people who post here. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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that is good news! i remember being interested by the description of the game but grew confident it would just end up being jrpg pap. clearly i will have to check this out.
i have played a little system shock. is my speed affected by how much stuff i'm carrying? also, wow, this is great. cyberspace especially. _________________
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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JasonMoses wrote: | I would definitely recommend checking the game out if you get the chance - it seems right up the respective alleys of many people who post here. |
I too am pumped about this game. I've always kind of wanted to get into the hardcore rpg, but I'm too lazy to pull out a pen and paper to map the levels. With the DS I've already got the pen and paper, so hopefully that'll be enough to remedy that issue!
-Wes _________________
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Scratchmonkey .
Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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Hell if the only thing that I've been playing recently is Puzzle Quest DS, which I play before I go to sleep. It's a pickle of a game in that it really highlights the problems with non-sandbox RPGs. I mean, does jamming Bejewled into an RPG as the new combat system leverage the logistics of the RPG with an 'actual game' or is it a spotlight on the strange juxtaposition of RPG vs. 'actual game'?
It's pretty confusing. |
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Intentionally Wrong .
Joined: 09 Sep 2005 Posts: 248 Location: [Subject Hometown Here]
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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I had a brief affair with Puzzle Quest myself. I don't know why, but the really generic music and character designs kind of appealed to me. Kind of funny that it took Pokemon Pearl to get me to finally remove the card from my DS, since I used to self-identify as an RPG fan who didn't want anything to do with pokemon. |
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Koyetay .
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 11 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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It only took a few more levels for the honeymoon to end. By level 23, Elebits is starting to drag. It goes back to the store today and I'm not terribly upset about that.
Still, a great game, one I wouldn't mind playing again, but I'm a little bored of it at the moment. |
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Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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ryan wrote: | Also! System Shock Portable has been released! This is the original system shock that has been tweaked to run on newer systems (re: XP). It's called 'portable' because it can be played off the local hard drive or a jump drive. Link. |
This has been out since last year sometime! I posted about it in the Looking Glass thread. Of course, I played through it a couple months prior by fiddling around for two days trying to get it to run (which it did, perfectly). Portable is known to have some stability issues, hopefully they have fixed them by now because it was pretty impressive otherwise.
Quote: | is my speed affected by how much stuff i'm carrying? |
Nope. Also, Cyberspace is rad. One of the many things missing from the sequel. Also, I love the mini-games! I mean, there is a mini version of Wing Commander!
I played Starfox Command not that long ago, but didn't end up playing it for long. The strategy elements were pretty hollow and so were the action scenes. And yeah, too many cutscenes. _________________
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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portable is neat, i have to tweak it a bit.
but i must say that cyberspace was my least favorite part of the game. (sneaking around with the lightsaber and waiting for death like a coward was the best)
i think i just installed daggerfall correctly. gonna go find out now. _________________
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Winged Assassins (1984) .
Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 996 Location: Super Magic Drive
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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dhex wrote: | i think i just installed daggerfall correctly. gonna go find out now. |
I recommend patching it. _________________
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Swimmy .
Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 990 Location: Fairfax, VA
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Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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I can't wait to delve into System Shock. First I need to get the program that remaps the controls. And speaking of, I have to wonder, what's up with the thread which links the program? It goes from a bunch of elitist g'fawing about how stupid noobs are for having to change the controls (and on this note, really? really? as if every single game on earth shouldn't offer some option to change the controls? as if getting used to a game's poor or outdated controls is an accomplishment?) to a debate about whether System Shock should have even been formatted to work with XP--I mean, like, why don't you just install another hard drive to run Windows 95 so you can play old games? Duhhhhhhh.
. . .
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"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 6:39 am Post subject: |
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ss1 does have a weird interface, to say the least, so *in theory* i could see how many "ZOMG TEH KEYZ SUX" posts over the years might whittle down what goodwill towards humanity one might have.
still, though. it's not quite vaguely disguised child molestation fantasies masquerading as games, but the whole western games memeplex (complexity, intelligence, blah blah blah) is pretty obnoxious. _________________
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 9:46 am Post subject: |
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so i played some etrian oddysey. it's much better than i expected, though i wish the dungeon was laid out in a more logical and interesting way. i've only seen one floor so far, but the first floor feels like just a bunch of random hallways.
as for the mapping, i'm unconvinced. i love that a game would have me draw my own map, and i think the ds is a natural platform for it, giving the player as much virtual notepaper as she needs. in etrian, though, you're not drawing a map, you're just playing connect-the-dots. you're just toggling lines and dragging icons to where you're expected to put them. there is an ideal map and instead of being given it you're being asked to fill it in yourself. it's more like a quiz than mapping. there's no room for personality or cleverness - any deviation from the next person's map will be just a mistake. _________________
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I found out that Nich Maragos was the project lead and editor for the game and that it was "hard" so I decided to give it a shot. My instant reaction to the game was to jump online and tell Dess and Dhex that they would love this game. Honestly, the only thing that connects this to the “j” lines of RPGs is the art style. The rest is very non-“j” in both its delivery and progress. Reminds me of what I hear other people talk about in relating to Ultima Underworlds.
I feel like I must be missing something because the game is so difficult (well, not so-o difficult, but more difficult that it seems like it should be) and I end up exploring in very short bursts before returning to town. I have a full team of 5 people (the most you can take out at once), and I’m at level 10, and I’ve hardly explored more than 1/3 of the second floor and most of the first.
Currently I feel like I own the first floor, but when I go down to the second I have to sneak around because there are FOEs (mid bosses) everywhere and they are good at killing whole parties of explorers. There’s a lot of tension, and the map making is quite well implemented, but I feel like I’m being forced to spend too much time in one area (or that I may just suck at these kinds of games, or that I’m missing something). Luckily the encounter rate is appropriately spaced out so the explore/combat ratio is well balanced.
The way that money and items work in this game is possibly the best implementation of money and items I’ve seen in a long time. You can get certain items from killing enemies (hard shell from killing a Giantkrab, and Bug Wings from killing Woodmoths) and then you can bring them back and sell them to the store for (small amounts of ) money. On top of that, the more supplies that you get to the shop keeper the more weapons/armor/items they can create. This makes it feel progressive and cohesive to your progress.
One of my favorite touches is the DM like aspect of the game. If you check in certain areas you’ll get messages like:
“You’ve come into a clearing where the wind rustles your hair and you can smell flowers in the air.
You see a fruit on the tree in front of you and it looks like it might taste good.
Do you want to try the fruit? Yes/No
Kage takes the fruit and bites into it but it’s color and appearance are deceptive.
As Kage swallows the fruit burns his throat.
-5 HP”
I don’t know exactly what reason the game does this (if it’s trying to channel text adventures and table top RPGs, or if it’s a budget restraint, or a lack of good art/design/modeling teams) but I love that it does. I enjoy going back to the check points of the labyrinth and getting new messages, and it’s always a treat to enter a new area and get a description of the atmosphere.
dessgeega wrote: | though i wish the dungeon was laid out in a more logical and interesting way. i've only seen one floor so far, but the first floor feels like just a bunch of random hallways. |
Well, the labyrinth is stated to be a mystery. The randomness leads it to feel more like a force of chaos. It's also not that random feeling. I mean, I'm sure that these little side paths are not entended to be hallways in a forrest, which is why they have to have the DM voice over.
Anyways, the second floor is a bit more interesting. It feels like a giant trap laid out to get you. It's still random feeling. Anyways, you know you can go to the options and turn off the "auto map" and use the bottom however you want. I like that it's more like cartograph than creating your own map (which works for things like Riven and wumpus, but not everything).
dessgeega wrote: | there's no room for personality or cleverness - any deviation from the next person's map will be just a mistake. |
You're just bitter because the guard forced you to make a map before your could proceed. Granted it's not the best way to make a player warm up to drawing maps, but you don't have to do the map after that if you don't want to, or you could do it what ever way you want. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:50 am Post subject: |
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I got Etrian Odyssey last night too and I'm really digging it so far. I like how constrained the design feels at this point. There's one town and one dungeon and you're given the freedom to be as meticulous as you'd like within what you're given. Enjoyable!
-Wes _________________
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:55 am Post subject: |
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Also, dess, if you go to the Etrian website and read the Columns->Director's Diary->2 he gives some more insight on the reason that the mapping is the way it is. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Shapermc wrote: | Kage takes the fruit and bites into it but its color and appearance are deceptive. |
that is a good character name. my characters are fable, grobda, bull, manko and truss. (and a troubadour named juranda who i couldn't fit into my party. but points to anyone who knows where the name is from.)
the thing that annoys me is that it's not actually drawing a map, it's just checking off squares. i guess what i really want is the freedom to draw a map which is less literal, with landmarks instead of neat one-to-one grid tiles.
actually this game makes me want to play heart of the maelstrom. i don't think i ever got around to trying the gba wizardry, actually. maybe i'll do that.
also i was smart enough not to eat the fruit! i didn't drink from the stream either. but i did examine the boot, and i like the way that event was handled. it makes me curious about the rest of the game, that and this stuff i've been hearing about wandering enemies. _________________
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:11 am Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | Shapermc wrote: | Kage takes the fruit and bites into it but its color and appearance are deceptive. |
that is a good character name. my characters are fable, grobda, bull, manko and truss. (and a troubadour named juranda who i couldn't fit into my party. but points to anyone who knows where the name is from.) |
My team is:
[Front Row]
Kage (Shadow in Japanese, named after my dog Shadow): Landshark
Tiat (Cat's name, named after Tiat Young): Dark Hunter
Shapes (I named the guild Shaper, which works out better): Protector
[Back Row]
Aki (Dog's name. Named after the season in japanese): Medic
Sky (My wife's screen name and game character name): Alchemist
See a theme? Yes, that's right, I'm taking my household adventuring. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:13 am Post subject: |
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my guild is the daggers.
my party is the same as yours, except with a survivalist instead of an alchemist. _________________
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: |
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Alchemists are awesome. I was debating on having two of them! _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Fri May 18, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: |
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my survivalist can make enemy attacks miss. it is a pretty useful ability! _________________
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