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Karii .
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 31 Location: Tampa, FL
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:36 am Post subject: Why is Lament of Innocence NOT a true Castlevania game? |
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I played through most of LOI and while it is fairly straightforward and not too exciting, I enjoyed playing it. Many people commented that it was not a 'real' Castlevania game, but they never gave any valid reasons for saying that.
Some of the stranger answers I got were: There is no clock tower (ok...?)
and there is no backtracking. (well, if you want any of the orbs there is)
Clearly, I don't have any knowledge of Castlevania history, thus the reason I am asking - so. I am curious, please let me know why this specific game 'doesn't count' |
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friedchicken .
Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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I think people feel like LOI (and the N64 CV's) didn't really capture the 'feel' of Castlevania, whatever that is. The backtracking comment is pretty funny-- the series didn't have any backtracking at all until-- what, Symphony of the Night? As to why it 'doesn't count', I dunno. Maybe they mean storyline-wise.
My only significant complaint about it is how so much of it within the levels looks identical, which made it less interesting and made backtracking tough for me at times. But I didn't hate it, particularly. I was pleasantly surprised by how well it controlled, and I just had more interesting things in line to play, so I didn't spend much time with it.
Personally, I think LOI is a good move in the right direction for a 3D Castlevania, but it's like it wants to have the character designs and art of the post-Symphony of the Night games with gameplay from... oh, let's say Super Castlevania 4 (now that should get some arguments going!), which makes it seem less inspired. |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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it counts. it just sucks, is all. |
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Persona-sama Weltbeherrschen Mangaka
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 709 Location: acrylic polymer dismutation
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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The people were given bread when they were too used to cake, you see. |
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Mister Toups Hates your favorite videogame
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 1693 Location: Lafayette, LA
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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I think it is a true Castlevania game. Moreso than the N64 titles at any rate. Although those games had Castelvania-y moments. _________________ where were you when nana komatsu got a wii? |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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I agree that it's a true Castlevania game. After you get good at the fighting, the feeling of running through the corridors of the castle fighting your way through bad guys is very similar to that of Symphony of the Night. What's obviously missing is the platforming and exploration, but the fighting was good enough that it's a step in the right direction. I personally hope that step isn't totally disregarded in the upcoming Castlevania. I'd really like to play the game that Lament of the Innocence is on its way to becoming.
-Wes _________________
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Mister Toups Hates your favorite videogame
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 1693 Location: Lafayette, LA
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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SuperWes wrote: | I'd really like to play the game that Lament of the Innocence is on its way to becoming. |
I know I sound like a broken record, but... Don't play Nanobreaker. _________________ where were you when nana komatsu got a wii? |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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it's like nanobreaker plied toups with alcohol and nudie magazines at nanobreaker ranch or something.
is it that bad? it has a dumb name and all, but that's a vg curse in general. |
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calintz .
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 17 Location: Nagoya
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Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:09 am Post subject: |
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I know it's very superficial, but I didn't really like it since it wasn't 2D...
...LoI didn't make the jump from 2D to 3D as well as Metroid/Mario did. It had the Igarashi/Yamane/Kojima trio, but the game just didn't "feel" right. _________________ ...九龍で会いましょう...(*☼_☉*) |
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ajutla Moderator
Joined: 25 Oct 2004 Posts: 264 Location: Kansas City
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Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Lament is a real Castlevania game. It's just a real bad Castlevania game.
(they call the above sparkling wit. JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE.) |
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Persona-sama Weltbeherrschen Mangaka
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 709 Location: acrylic polymer dismutation
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:42 am Post subject: |
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ajutla wrote: | Lament is a real Castlevania game. It's just a real bad Castlevania game.
(they call the above sparkling wit. JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE.) |
But dhex said the exact same thing in six less words than you seven posts ahead of you.
He could've said it in eight less words but he had to add his touch of flair, you see.
Moving the discussion towards more LoI related tangents:
My problem with Lament of Innocence is that it just wasn't VERTICAL enough to be Castlevania for me. If they incorporated a real Z-level into that game and tied together all the hubs into one flowing castle, then it would really feel like a Castlevania's Castlevania.
The main problem with the 3d Castlevanias is that Konami is leaving them up to a man who has said multiple times beforehand that 2D is much better. If you let a man like that create 3d games, there is no doubt in the world that he will fail to deliver a great 3d game.
I mean, it's like letting a man who said, "I love to rape children and tie them to burning effigies of the Christ," be your babysitter. It's just not common sense. |
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ajutla Moderator
Joined: 25 Oct 2004 Posts: 264 Location: Kansas City
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Persona-sama wrote: | ajutla wrote: | Lament is a real Castlevania game. It's just a real bad Castlevania game.
(they call the above sparkling wit. JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE.) |
But dhex said the exact same thing in six less words than you seven posts ahead of you.
He could've said it in eight less words but he had to add his touch of flair, you see. |
I'm counting on people failing to notice that. |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:34 am Post subject: |
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it counts but sucks - 4 words, 4 syllables, all kickass _________________
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Szczepaniak .
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 770
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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It counts in that it's officially canon.
But yeah, it sucks ass.
I don't know why they felt the need to go 3D with it. I would have preffered a 2D game.
The only game that made the jump from 2D to 3D well was Goemon. And maybe MGS.... |
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calintz .
Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Posts: 17 Location: Nagoya
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Szczepaniak wrote: | The only game that made the jump from 2D to 3D well was Goemon. And maybe MGS.... |
You didn't think that Retro's interpretation of Metroid and it's basic mechanics were successful? I thought they got it down striaght. Or Zelda/Mario (yeah, basically first party Nintendo games)?
Which I couldn't say the same for Lament.
I guess it's all subjective in what everyone thinks the defining poins of a games series are. _________________ ...九龍で会いましょう...(*☼_☉*) |
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Szczepaniak .
Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 770
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Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Oops, I meant specifically Konami games.
Though in truth not many of theirs went 3D to begin with, and there are few other games that can claim to have made the jump whilst still retaining the old feel.
Mario 64 is a classic example, it feels like Mario.
Ninja Gaiden just didn't feel like the old games. (the truth being, they only made it Ninja Gaiden at the last moment at the request of senior staff in the company. It was actually just a regular action game before that.)
I thought the 3D CV games were dire though. |
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aderack .
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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That's a little hard to believe, in that Ninja Gaiden was announced several years before it was released. Back around when DoA2 was finishing development, actually. I remember waiting and expecting it to come out on the Dreamcast. It was vaporware for a long time, always as "Ninja Gaiden". Then of course, Ryu Hayabusa was a character in all of Itagaki's previous games for Tecmo.
So.
That's one hell of an extended last minute, if that's what it is.
Last edited by aderack on Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ajutla Moderator
Joined: 25 Oct 2004 Posts: 264 Location: Kansas City
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Shit, guys. It's Aderack. The party's over now.
And I don't think Metal Gear Solid properly made the jump until the third game. The first two are still 2D, really. |
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aderack .
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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Why does my signature not appear?!
There we go. _________________
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ajutla Moderator
Joined: 25 Oct 2004 Posts: 264 Location: Kansas City
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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THIS IS ME MAKING A POST. _________________
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aderack .
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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TIME TO CHANGE THE DONUTS _________________
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Persona-sama Weltbeherrschen Mangaka
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 709 Location: acrylic polymer dismutation
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:11 am Post subject: |
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That's a good banner.
I should bring my Opa Opa banner in here so that we'll match!
Well, then again your's is a cutscene from Super Fantasy Zone whereas mine is just an ingame shot. |
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aderack .
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:19 am Post subject: |
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It's also stealing bandwith from someone else. I'll fix that when I get around to it. And maybe add some text or something.
OR MAYBE I'LL DO THAT NOW? _________________
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:08 am Post subject: |
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ajutla wrote: | And I don't think Metal Gear Solid properly made the jump until the third game. The first two are still 2D, really. |
Really? See, what makes the 3rd distinctly different? No radar? I mean, it is rare that I find the game that I think NEEDED 3D. The main thing is that 3D no longer looks eye-gouging-ly painful anymore. It did, once, and I really ignored it, most of it. I think I would have had a different opinion had I bought a Saturn and just looked at the PS1 as an example of what early 3D was. Also, that Metroid Prime 2D project has not updated in a while! The need to finish that.
I really did not like LoI. I tried. I was really enjoying myself. Until my progress was halted with "necessary" back tracking. Had I just been able to continue forwards with out needing to re-tread through levels I would have enjoyed the game. Probably quite a bit. But that option is not present. After backtracking though one section of the castle I decided the level design was not good enough to warrent me going through all the others. |
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aderack .
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:50 am Post subject: |
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I wrote a good deal on Lament of Innocence in my writing about Curse of Darkness for Next Generation. And yeah, that's pretty much it. LoI was supposed to be a straightforward action game, and it worked on that level. That's not the level we were presented with in the end. _________________
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IceTyger .
Joined: 22 Feb 2005 Posts: 10
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:58 am Post subject: |
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Suddenly, it looks like everyone's talking about LoL instead of LoI. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Persona-sama wrote: | My problem with Lament of Innocence is that it just wasn't VERTICAL enough to be Castlevania for me. |
it's super-flat. LIKE THE CULTURE THAT PRODUCED IT!(!!) |
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