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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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 Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:26 am Post subject: the problems of bomberman |
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So I got a Wii, and I realize the main things I find compelling on the download channels are going to be multiplayer games... right now Turbo Grafx Bomberman seems like the best bet for that, and I don't have a good multiplayer bomberman (well, the GC is ok, but a litle too slick) so that's what I got.
But I think Bomberman has several problems as a multiplayer game. While it's amusing to have so much "hoist on his own petard", the first part of each round is just a lot of random running around and blowing up blocks. Frankly, the strategy (when possible, place bombs to blow up multiple blocks) is infantile, apart from maybe thinking about where breakthrough to enemy will actually occur. And then, there's an unsatisfying element of chance to the powerups some people will find and others won't...
So I don't know, does this game deserve its huge reputation? |
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Sushi d
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:00 am Post subject: |
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it deserves its reputation for being the only decent party game (as in 3+ players) for a long long time?
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kirkjerk
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| Sushi d wrote: | | it deserves its reputation for being the only decent party game (as in 3+ players) for a long long time? |
You mean, besides Warlords on the 2600, and Micro Machines on the NES?
One of the few, but I wouldn't say only.... |
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Sushi d
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:57 am Post subject: |
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| kirkjerk wrote: | | Sushi d wrote: | | it deserves its reputation for being the only decent party game (as in 3+ players) for a long long time? |
You mean, besides Warlords on the 2600, and Micro Machines on the NES?
One of the few, but I wouldn't say only.... |
well. from the titles you've offered to counter. bomberman is probably the most advertised one and propably the most known.
note: i'm talking about pre-psx days here. i would also like to note that its probably the most cloned party game at around that time.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:21 am Post subject: |
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I had a very good multiplayer-only Bomberman clone on the Amiga called Master Blaster which me, my sister and her boyfriend used to play a whole lot. It was your bog-standard Bomberman, except in between rounds there was a shop mode where you could buy extra speed-ups and bombs with the coins you'd picked up. It was great.
None of the Bombermans I've played since then have measured up to that, since Hudson keep adding silly shit like ridable kangaroos and being able to throw bombs into the arena after you've died and so on. If it ain't broke don't fix it. That's why I'm very excited for Bomberman '93, since Master Blaster was the last good Bomberman game I had. |
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Sushi d wrote: | | kirkjerk wrote: | | Sushi d wrote: | | it deserves its reputation for being the only decent party game (as in 3+ players) for a long long time? |
You mean, besides Warlords on the 2600, and Micro Machines on the NES?
One of the few, but I wouldn't say only.... |
well. from the titles you've offered to counter. bomberman is probably the most advertised one and propably the most known.
note: i'm talking about pre-psx days here. i would also like to note that its probably the most cloned party game at around that time. |
I thought Warlords received its fair amount of attention back in the day (but the scope was less than) but still, I get your point.
I can't locate my Bomberman 64, which is one of the more interesting variants, though it's kind of a love it or hate it thing. Over all it's better than just gratuitous new powerups and a slightly more 3Dish view, though I think Coin Battle in, say, Generations has its merits. |
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Nana Komatsu
weak sauce
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I never understood bomberman, but I think that's because I never played it with other people. |
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: bohan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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bomberman 64 provided a much-needed revision to the bomberman formula (that hudson went on to totally forget about). it has the best multiplayer out of the series as far as i'm concerned.
bomberman 94 is still the best in the traditional bomber mold (the one available on the wii is 93), though saturn bomberman's 10-player game is pretty crazy. it has a nice mix of luck and strategy, though it's far from my ideal multiplayer experience.
can you play 93 on the wii with a full five players, or does the wii only support up to four?
the japanese virtual console is getting battle lode runner, which is pretty much lode runner + bomberman and is actually really great.
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JasonMoses
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| 93 on VC lets you play with 5 people using a combination of remotes and classic/GC controllers, yeah. |
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simplicio
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Joined: 03 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| JasonMoses wrote: | | 93 on VC lets you play with 5 people using a combination of remotes and classic/GC controllers, yeah. |
So the Wii holds the potential for 8-player games on a single console? And that nobody cancelled that feature just cause it might've been extra work to impliment and few games will ever use it? That's really cool, and so contrary to most gaming hardware design. |
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kirkjerk
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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| simplicio wrote: | | JasonMoses wrote: | | 93 on VC lets you play with 5 people using a combination of remotes and classic/GC controllers, yeah. |
So the Wii holds the potential for 8-player games on a single console? And that nobody cancelled that feature just cause it might've been extra work to impliment and few games will ever use it? That's really cool, and so contrary to most gaming hardware design. |
That's a great point.
What's the latest on use of controllers?
Is the classic controller a superset of the GCs functionality? Do the shoulder buttons "click?"
Between the all-white-ness of the controllers (a bit of a mistake IMO) and all the emulation stuff (oh, Turbo Grafx had a "run" button?), along side all the new detectable motions, Wii has whole knew realms of controller complexities... |
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Lockeownzj00
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | can you play 93 on the wii with a full five players, or does the wii only support up to four? |
Well, as I understand it, Wario Ware is supposed to have up to 12 players. So the wireless has an advantage.
Unless I misunderstood that somehow. |
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simplicio
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Joined: 03 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Lockeownzj00 wrote: | | Quote: | | can you play 93 on the wii with a full five players, or does the wii only support up to four? |
Well, as I understand it, Wario Ware is supposed to have up to 12 players. So the wireless has an advantage.
Unless I misunderstood that somehow. |
How does that work though? Each of the remotes keys into a single channel, of which there seem to be 4? (as indicated by the lights on the bottom of it, at least.) Then there are the 4 GC controller ports on the top of the unit. |
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I think the 16 players might refer to some passing-the-controller-around party game-type arrangement, like GC Wario Ware. |
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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the "run" button is the "start" button.
chillax!
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Cycle
Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| dessgeega wrote: | | bomberman 64 provided a much-needed revision to the bomberman formula (that hudson went on to totally forget about). it has the best multiplayer out of the series as far as i'm concerned. |
By an amazing coincidence, I was talking about this game with a friend last night. We were talking about good N64 games that got bashed, and this was one of them. But the multiplayer was great! As Dess said, it was a great revision and brought the classic gameplay into 3D really well. It was a total blast. The single-player is probably the best out of all the games too, I really enjoyed it. But all these idiot magazines gave it poor reviews so they created two completely different sequels that completely sucked. Well, Bomberman Hero was slightly entertaining in a Bomberman meets Crash Bandicoot kind of way and I never gave the other one a real chance.
| Quote: | | bomberman 94 is still the best in the traditional bomber mold (the one available on the wii is 93), though saturn bomberman's 10-player game is pretty crazy. it has a nice mix of luck and strategy, though it's far from my ideal multiplayer experience. |
What makes each different from the other? I have Saturn bomberman but lack friends who actually want to play it. Plus I need a multitap and a bucket of controllers. I remember pretty much every magazine thought that Super Bomberman 2 was the best version of the game.
| Quote: | | the japanese virtual console is getting battle lode runner, which is pretty much lode runner + bomberman and is actually really great. |
I've never heard of this game. Is it anything like Loderunner Online? What system is it on? And has anyone played Loderunner 64? Why do I have hair on my back? I just started playing the original Lode Runner on my sexy new Mac Classic; it's still an incredibly fun game. Now I feel like talking about Lode Runner
What is everyone’s favourite party game, then? |
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Nana Komatsu
weak sauce
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Cycle wrote: | | sexy new Mac Classic |
Mac Classic as in running OS 9 within OS X? There's nothing sexy about that. |
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Cycle
Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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Heck no! It has System 7 on the hard drive which I mostly use, but I have a System 6 boot disk handy for the more picky games.
I asked people at IC what games I should put on it but no one responded  It's the best Mac Classic you can buy! Ram upgrade! 40 MB hard drive! The hardware is also in great condition, none of that yellowing crap which makes they look ugly. Maybe I'll give this thing a paint job...
I've been playing 3 in Three but it keeps reminding me how unintelligent I am. |
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Lackey
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Joined: 11 Jul 2005
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Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I have Lode Runner 64. It's okay? I have no strong opinion on it.
And I loved Bomberman 64! Great party game. Me and a friend were always the last ones alive though, and our matches always went into sudden death. It began to annoy everyone else.
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Cycle
Mac daddy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Couldn't they pass the time by pestering you as ghosts?
But yeah, Bomberman 64. One of the most under-rated games on the system! Probably! I loved my 64. |
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B coma
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Joined: 06 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I remember Bomberman 64 being pretty fun too. Maybe I should keep an eye out for a copy next time I'm in the market for older games.
And Bomberman 93 is sounding pretty tempting... but I might hold off a little longer on actually buying VC games. |
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B coma
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Joined: 06 Dec 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| oh, and I made an IC thread about it in the axe, but did you guys see how they're reviewing the virtual console games at Gamespot? It' quite a sight indeed. |
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: bohan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Cycle wrote: | | dessgeega wrote: | | the japanese virtual console is getting battle lode runner, which is pretty much lode runner + bomberman and is actually really great. |
I've never heard of this game. Is it anything like Loderunner Online? What system is it on? And has anyone played Loderunner 64? Why do I have hair on my back? I just started playing the original Lode Runner on my sexy new Mac Classic; it's still an incredibly fun game. Now I feel like talking about Lode Runner. |
battle lode runner was developed by hudson (who holds the lode runner license in japan) for the pc-engine. imagine a side-viewed bomberman and you pretty much have it. two-to-five players trying to dig holes under their opponents' feet and trap them while not getting trapped themselves. random places, when dug, will produce power-ups that let players dig from a distance or run faster, as well as viruses which are communicated by touch, but these are rare. after a minute or so, monsters enter the arena and start chasing players. it's bomberman without the mucking-around / powering-up, which seems to be a large part of what kirk finds weak about the bomberman games.
in lode runner online the (two) players are just competing to grab their gold first, right? this is entirely different. this is deathmatch lode runner.
lode runner 64 is just 2D lode runner stretched a tiny bit along the z-axis. cubic lode runner, which hudson developed for the gamecube, is the real deal: lode runner moving in the 3D space of a cubic stage made up of cubic tiles. it requires you to shift your lode runner paradigm a bit!
| Quote: | | What makes each different from the other? I have Saturn bomberman but lack friends who actually want to play it. Plus I need a multitap and a bucket of controllers. I remember pretty much every magazine thought that Super Bomberman 2 was the best version of the game. |
saturn bomberman allows up to ten players in a giant, tiny-sprites screen with no interesting features or power-ups, while bomberman 94 allows up to five players on a bunch of interesting screens with a bunch of interesting things to collect, like these ride-on kangaroos that give players the ability to throw bombs, run really fast, hop over walls and things of that ilk. it also has the only single-player bomberman game i'd ever want to play (it avoids what makes most single-player bombermans so tedious - the requirement of killing every last enemy).
| Quote: | | It was a total blast. |
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simplicio
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| I was kind of hoping someone would make a site that only reviewed all the VC games coming out. |
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Lockeownzj00
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I remember Bomberman 64 being pretty fun too. Maybe I should keep an eye out for a copy next time I'm in the market for older games. |
I obsessed over that game. Thinking back, it was truly amazing. I loved the costumes. I don't know why. It just felt like you had something worthwhile to do. Kicking peoples' asses in a rabbit suit (if I remember correctly) is ace. I haven't played it in a long, long time.
But I donno if you'll be able to keep a physical eye out, anymore. It seems the n64 is giving up the ghost, economically speaking. I hadn't been to a game store/mall in years, but the other day when traipsing all over creation to try and find a Wii, I discovered that every mainstream videogame store discontinued n64 products a while ago.
Dammit. That means I can't just buy it and a bunch of games on a whim someday. It's going to have to be calculated. I don't have any mom and pop game stores near me! |
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Cycle
Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| dessgeega wrote: | | Stuff about Lode Runner games |
That Battle Lode Runner sounds sweet. I probably have it in my ROM folder but never looked at it...
I do! I just played it and it kinda sucks with CPU players so I can't really judge it. I hate Lode Runner games where you can't see the whole level on the screen, too (this is puzzle mode). I also played the Broderbund version which has the same problem. It's also much less charming. Still! Would like to try battle mode with humans.
I'm guessing that Lode Runner GC game never got outside of Japan? I may have to import. The GC freeloader works in the wii, right? That means I can play japan and us GC games on my PAL Wii? It would make life so easier. There a whole heap of crazy GC games I want/need to play... I actually never had a GC. The backwards compatability is one of the wii selling points for me.
Did you ever play Lode Runner 2? It was isometric and it was actually pretty swell. I played the heck out of it.
| Quote: | | Stuff about bomberman. |
I remember most people hating on the kangaroos and stuff, I never saw what the big deal was. I probably also have this on my ROM folder, let me have a look... I do! It looks pretty good, I'll give it a better shot tomorrow.
It looks very similar to Mr Boom, a DOS Bomberman clone I played all the time in school. It's the best traditional Bomberman clone I've played, allowed eight players, had interesting maps and powerups... I think it had interesting powerups. Let me find it...
Well, there is the snow level with the igloos. Let me find another shot..
 
Aha! It DID have kangaroos! This was the best LAN game we had, forget all those FPS games. I gotta try and get this thing to run tomorrow.
But... only single player game you'd want to play through? You didn't like the Bomberman 64 solo play? |
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, by "an eye out" I meant on half.com or other online dealers..
| Cycle wrote: | | But... only single player game you'd want to play through? You didn't like the Bomberman 64 solo play? |
Hmm... you know, N64 was my return to modern console gaming, in '96... in college I just had a 7800, which at that point obviously had the retroflavor, especially Warlords. (Huh, was the 7800 the first major backwards compatible system? Funny how my mom really thinks of backwards compatabilty as the default, whereas I suspect most of the time it's a HUGE pain in the ass to do right.)
Anyway, Bomberman 64 is the first post-NES game I remember electing not to struggle through. The early boss battle vs. the dragon just seemed too difficult, and the puzzle-ish worlds didn't seem like that much fun. |
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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those mr. boom graphics are totally lifted from bomberman 94!
and yeah, i hear the freeloader works on the wii. you should totally import cubic lode runner.
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Wall of Beef
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 66
Location: Slightly south of the Great White North.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| Bomberman 64 was one of those games for me that I played through, and then one day just left the title screen running, and it entered into Demo mode and showed Bomberman doing things I had no idea he could do in the game. I had no idea you stack huge piles of different sized bombs and then use them to bounce yourself into extremely hidden areas. The areas hidden were also very often massive parts of the level. It was like opening a whole new game. |
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.brainiac.
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 7
Location: grizzly island
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| dessgeega wrote: | | bomberman 94 is still the best in the traditional bomber mold (the one available on the wii is 93) |
i am pretty fond of the bomberman 90-whatever games. i can't remember which is which, but i like SOME of 'em a whole lot anyway. out of all the bomberman games i've played, they're pretty much the best.
recently i fired up the original NES bomberman and was kind of shocked at how bad it is, 'cause i used to love it when i was a kid. too simple, too repetitive, really bland. plus it has this quirk you can exploit to make your score go up like crazy: after you clean the level out, just start setting off bombs next to the exit door, which spawns more monsters, then kill them en masse as soon as they come out.
i had been playing bomberman online on dreamcast pretty recently. well, bomberman online offline. it is okay, pretty good but not fantastic, in terms of presentation & gameplay. it has weird bonus goals that are described so vaguely that sometimes i just don't understand how to achieve them.
also! i noticed the other day that there is a new bomberman DS game. bomberman land touch. it has wi-fi internet play, something which was missing from the previous bomberman DS! i am sort of curious about it. |
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dongle
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| The wifi part of BLT is neat but I'm not sold on the dual screen aspect w/ tunnels. |
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