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J.Goodwin .
Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 297 Location: North Shore, MA
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ApM Admin Rockstar
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1210 Location: Ottawa, ON
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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So, wait, is this fanfic? |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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ApM wrote: | So, wait, is this fanfic? |
a LIVING fanfic
Also, good to see you J. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Newsweek: World of Warcraft: Is It a Game? |
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J.Goodwin wrote: | Is World of Warcraft a game, or is it a harbinger of virtual realities that we all might inhabit? Only a Night Elf knows for sure.
Yeah, screw you. |
ApM wrote: | So, wait, is this fanfic? |
These comments are both amazing. Thank you both.
-Wes _________________
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Wilkes milky wilkie
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 256
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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it's a pretty piss article.
though, WoW is a pretty piss game. _________________
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xvs07 .
Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 160
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Y'know, that says it all:
"Warcraft is the new golf," says Mayfield. "I actually closed a deal with a company I met through WOW."
Even if I had no other reasons, that quote alone would keep me from ever playing WoW.
And then there's this little gem:
"Ninety percent of what I do is never finished—parenting, teaching, doing the laundry," says Elizabeth Lawley (Level 60, Troll Priest), a Rochester, N.Y., college professor. "In WOW, I can cross things off a list—I've finished a quest, I've reached a new level."
Doesn't anyone knit, carve, or build cars anymore? |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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you can reach level 60 in world of warcraft but you can't finish doing the laundry? _________________
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Probably because of her heinous Warcraft addiction. Her life is a ruin. |
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Dracko .
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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So, what's the new big thing in drone-in-drop-out escapism? _________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!" |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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Has anyone here actually played World of Warcraft? It's actually a really good game. Much, much better than FFXI could possibly ever become unless they added about three times the content. I played it for about a month because I wanted to know what the whole draw of MMORPGs are and the only real reason I don't still play it is that I'm unwilling to sacrafice the my entire leisure time for a single game. I did play it until I figured out how to do a majority of the stuff you can do, but there's a lot I didn't see. The carrots waved in front of my face to keep going sure were tempting, but in the end real life won out.
I realize that this is what a lot of people who don't play MMOs think, but it's a lot easier to understand why people devote themselves to it when you've had the experience yourself.
-Wes _________________
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DonMarco .
Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:44 am Post subject: |
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xvs07 wrote: | Doesn't anyone knit, carve, or build cars anymore? |
I play Chromehounds. And collect stuff for fun and profit. _________________ Collector of over 1,538 strategy guides. That's weird, right?
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:44 am Post subject: |
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SuperWes wrote: | Has anyone here actually played World of Warcraft? It's actually a really good game. Much, much better than FFXI could possibly ever become unless they added about three times the content. I played it for about a month because I wanted to know what the whole draw of MMORPGs are and the only real reason I don't still play it is that I'm unwilling to sacrafice the my entire leisure time for a single game. I did play it until I figured out how to do a majority of the stuff you can do, but there's a lot I didn't see. The carrots waved in front of my face to keep going sure were tempting, but in the end real life won out.
I realize that this is what a lot of people who don't play MMOs think, but it's a lot easier to understand why people devote themselves to it when you've had the experience yourself.
-Wes |
I remember playing text-based MUDs when I was a young 'un and thinking 'if this had proper 3D graphics it would be like, the best game ever'. Turns out I was right, in a way, but am no longer 14 |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: |
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I am waiting to throw my life away for Phantasy Star Universe!
Buy yeah, NWN hit me kind of hard, but I have told that story before. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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xvs07 .
Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 160
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: |
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I'm thinking WoW would be pretty unpopular if it were text- and tick-based. It simply couldn't measure up to something like Achaea or even Materia Magica. When MMOs can meet that standard, then I might think about playing, but I'd still prefer to see something like a graphical FPS/MMO hybrid. Battlefield 2 sounds nice from all accounts, but it's not at all an immersive, persisent world like the MMOs boast. Even just losing the grind aspect of WoW in favor of straight playerkilling would be an improvement to me. |
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simplicio .
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Isn't that what Planetside was after? |
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disneyland .
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 131 Location: Shinsei
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:05 am Post subject: |
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SuperWes wrote: | Has anyone here actually played World of Warcraft? It's actually a really good game. Much, much better than FFXI could possibly ever become unless they added about three times the content. I played it for about a month because I wanted to know what the whole draw of MMORPGs are and the only real reason I don't still play it is that I'm unwilling to sacrafice the my entire leisure time for a single game. I did play it until I figured out how to do a majority of the stuff you can do, but there's a lot I didn't see. The carrots waved in front of my face to keep going sure were tempting, but in the end real life won out.
I realize that this is what a lot of people who don't play MMOs think, but it's a lot easier to understand why people devote themselves to it when you've had the experience yourself.
-Wes |
Amen, Wes. I'm not an active WoW player, but I played it enough to know--beyond a doubt--that it smashes previous MMOs I've played extensively in the past, including: EQ, EQ 2, FFXI, CoH, Lineage 1+2, etc. World of Warcraft is a very well-crafted game that is far more complete than any of its peers. It's better than a shitload of regular offline RPGs. When it won all those Game of the Year awards in '04, before the millions of addicted subscribers moved in, and just out the gate from a November release, it was no fluke. It stood out as a superior game among all games that year. In the midst of its current mega-popularity, we now have a fairly powerful backlash--especially among gamers polarized to/by MMOs. The odd bitterness doesn't alter history: half the people that started playing WoW at first were doing so because they loved Blizzard's previous games, while the other half enjoyed beta gameplay so much they decided to stay on.
Anyway, despite all of the evils of current-era MMO design, accept some measure of solace in the fact that WoW is #1 because yeah, deep down, Blizzard made another good game. And do remember that while 6.9 million subscribe to WoW, there are like 19 million Starcraft and Diablo players still loving the old code. I say again, despite the strained rep of the genre: WoW is no fluke. Blizzard takes a genre model and polishes it to near perfection. There are, however, inherent miscues in this era of MMO design that WoW must share. I get more pleasure from Guild Wars' aesthetic and speed myself, but I harbor no ill will towards WoW. It's a great game in many ways. Even if you only play the first 30 days of WoW (while it's free), you'll experience a ridiculous amount of content and a seamless world that defies you to dislike it. The game goes for about 20 bucks now. |
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Wilkes milky wilkie
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 256
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: |
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SuperWes wrote: | Has anyone here actually played World of Warcraft? It's actually a really good game. Much, much better than FFXI could possibly ever become unless they added about three times the content. I played it for about a month because I wanted to know what the whole draw of MMORPGs are and the only real reason I don't still play it is that I'm unwilling to sacrafice the my entire leisure time for a single game. I did play it until I figured out how to do a majority of the stuff you can do, but there's a lot I didn't see. The carrots waved in front of my face to keep going sure were tempting, but in the end real life won out.
I realize that this is what a lot of people who don't play MMOs think, but it's a lot easier to understand why people devote themselves to it when you've had the experience yourself.
-Wes |
you have a very good point, though I think it deserves to be analyzed moree deeply than "good" or "bad" game. It's a damaging game, in a way. We shoud maybe do an article!
I've played it, yeah. It's extremely good at what it's good at. In the end, I'm not sure that what it's good at is respectable.
Which is kind of abstract to say! _________________
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Like any other addictave substance it can be ok in moderation. It's the addiction, not the game, that most people look down upon. I have stated before that a friend of the family became addicted to WoW and it is not a fun thing to see happen. Hearing stories is one thing, but seeing it happen is another. I know there are thousands if not millions of people who don't have addiction problems with WoW and other MMO's. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Shapermc wrote: | Like any other addictave substance it can be ok in moderation. It's the addiction, not the game, that most people look down upon. I have stated before that a friend of the family became addicted to WoW and it is not a fun thing to see happen. Hearing stories is one thing, but seeing it happen is another. I know there are thousands if not millions of people who don't have addiction problems with WoW and other MMO's. |
Isn't this one of those "guns don't kill people, people kill people" things? Shouldn't dhex and the grammar police come in and talk about how something can't technically be addictive unless it's chemical? I agree with Wilkes that we should look beyond the game, but if people are ignoring the game to do so (as a vast majority are) they're not really adding anything to the discussion. Am I right?
-Wes _________________
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:16 am Post subject: |
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i would agree, which is why i wouldn't come in and do my usual "calling things which aren't addictive in any physiological sense is a really bad idea, policy-wise, and only serves to enrich "addiction specialists" and other lackeys of the coming superstate" thing. _________________
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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I have what some people consider an "addictive personality" and try to stay away from things like such as MMO's. Aside from that I get really, really bored with them. The off hand chance that I may like one is terrifying.
Things can be addictive that aren't chemicals, they are just different kinds of addictions. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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simplicio .
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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not addicting, but certainly intentionally habit forming. And I don't blame Blizzard or anyone for it; I think it's just a human flaw (mentally and socially) that we're able to create things that can suck so many people in, so completely, on a purely mental level. Anyone besides dhex read PK Dick's "The Mold of Yancy"? Sometimes when I think about MMORPGs it doesn't seem so off-base. |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Things can be addictive that aren't chemicals, they are just different kinds of addictions. |
with this you're describing behavior, not physiology. that's why i think the term should be used sparingly. _________________
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Nana Komatsu weak sauce
Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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I refuse to play any MMO because for me, video games are a solitary experience first and foremost and I don't like being social. |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: |
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i tend to agree, nana.
which raises an interesting point. why does talking about games that we play alone become a social activity? _________________
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Dracko .
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: |
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For the same reasons talking about books or movies you've experienced alone is? _________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!" |
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: |
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I'll take a shot at this.
I think it's because each of us receives a game in a unique way. Moments stand out, atmosphere produces emotion, objectives induce thoughts. On the flip side, none of us experiences a game to the fullest of its potential, part of which potential is tapped with each and every different person who plays it. This creates a conceptual void that we try to fill, piecemeal, with each new player's view that we absorb. Looking at it this way, what we do here can be perceived as either hopeless or noble (which, when paired like this, become almost synonyms).
And the same for other genera (sp? gr?) of art blah blah blah. _________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:53 am Post subject: |
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specifically in the context of seeking out a solitary activity because of a lack of desire for socializing and then seeking out socializing contexts in which to discuss a solitary activity...which may just seem more interesting in my brain than it actually is. _________________
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, when you put it that way it might be more of a one-liner than a theory. It's a pretty nifty one-liner, though. _________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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helicopterp wrote: | It's a pretty nifty one-liner, though. |
That's what dhexes are for.
-Wes _________________
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disneyland .
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 131 Location: Shinsei
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Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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There are really nice moments in MMOs when everything is clicking. An experience no other genre can deliver. The feeling of completing a 2-hour dungeon in a great co-op group of 6 highly-skilled players is very satisfying, especially inside a nicely-designed private instance. Everyone working together, talking, planning each move. Everyone pushing their character to its highest potential, playing a role, acting as a piece of the puzzle, learning how others play their character class. Looking at other players to see how they've equipped and colored their characters. Finding out what part of Earth your group-mates are from. It can be a very intimate and compelling feeling to share your time with other gamers in this way. |
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:32 am Post subject: |
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You have inadvertantly managed to highlight what turns me off about WoW:
disneyland wrote: | everything is clicking. |
_________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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TheRumblefish .
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 258 Location: Florida
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:21 am Post subject: |
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disneyland wrote: | It can be a very intimate and compelling feeling to share your time with other gamers in this way. |
I won't argue with your feelings, or your opinions. But this is what turns me off right away to any sort of "interactive" experience outside of an arcade with friends. Something personal and human is lost withtin that transitional phrase in any MMORPG. Something that I cannot hope to describe even in my wildest dreams, but I don't like that feeling. I can appreciate if you do, that's cool. _________________
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Lackey .
Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:06 am Post subject: |
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It's unfortunate if you don't know anyone who plays the same games as you.
Quote: | Something personal and human is lost withtin that transitional phrase in any MMORPG. |
This is a half-formed thought, but there's something personal and human gained as well. There's a certain freedom communicating with strangers. _________________ | Little bird fighting against a bat sect game | |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: |
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And here's another reason why people actually need to play the game before making early judgements. Disneyland likes WoW because of the player interactions, but the game works pretty well as a single player game also.
There's an article on Insert Credit about how Wow is designed as a single player game but has elements that arbitrarily require interactions with other players. It's a good argument against the game, and it's made by someone who very obviously has played the game enough to make it. But what it inadvertently states is that it's so close to a single player game that any argument against the whole online aspect is, for the most part, invalid.
If you're willing to go through a bit more effort to do so, it's possiible to play Wow by yourself for nearly the whole thing. There's this misconception that MMORPG games are just graphical MUDs, but that's not really the case. MUDs don't have anything at all if there aren't other people to play them with, while Wow has a shitload of quests that you can do by yourself as a single player. It's like Diablo or Oblivion, but the "leet armor" you get actually means something because there's someone there to see it and the economy is dictated by real people instead of AI.
So yeah, it's hard to take complaints about Wow from people who haven't played it very seriously because there's so much in there that, if you want to, you can avoid nearly any aspect you might not like. When I played Wow my character was a Troll Hunter named Picker who had a pet Tiger that fought with him. Every couple of hours Picker would stop and fish for a few minutes to get more food for his tiger before moving on. For those who haven't played the game, did you even know it was possible to get pets that fight with you?
-Wes _________________
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disneyland .
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 131 Location: Shinsei
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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I enjoyed my wolf pet. She was dark grey. I tamed her at the edge of a forest.
Since I didn't fish or cook, I usually fed the wolf raw meat taken off animals we'd slain. That, or I'd purchase a stack of hams for the road. Your pets have a mood indicator. They like being fed and they like staying alive. Different species eat different food types. Pets stay with you and level up, can be given commands (passive, guard me, etc.) and can be resurrected. When they're in a bad mood they don't fight as well and get hurt more easily. I liked the wolf because they have the unique ability to howl in combat, enhancing your attack power (and also your allies, iif they're close enough to hear it). Different animals do different things. Giant turtle pets have big armor and can take a beating. Wild boars have a special charge attack. Gorillas have a nice stomp. Scorpions can poison. There's like twenty different animals and 100+ different appearances based on region, etc. They all have specialties and abilities to learn as they level up. They're nicely animated too, so it's easy to become attached.
I enjoyed the pet portion of that game. Deep enough to be a satisfying, on-going mini-game. You can also store pets in a stable (any town), in case you need the specialties of another. My wolf was well-rounded so I used her primarily. I had a nice black tiger as well which I tamed in a coastal jungle. Excellent run speed and camouflage abilities. Bit fragile though, that pussycat. |
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Ketch .
Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Wilkes wrote: | It's a damaging game, in a way. We shoud maybe do an article!
I've played it, yeah. It's extremely good at what it's good at. In the end, I'm not sure that what it's good at is respectable. |
Now what I'd like to see is the opposite of WoW etc, it would be an online RPG where you could only do so much per real day, like in Brain Age, or Kudos (where you choose an action to do per (game day)). It would be a question of what you did in that minutes to 1 hour of play per day that would matter. Likewise, it would be equally important what your character Hadn't been doing. Because there is only so much one character can do. |
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Lackey .
Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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so does kingdom of loathing, but unfortunately it's kingdom of loathing. _________________
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