The Gamer's Quarter

dhex

or not.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/50

i know i occasionally pick out an escapist article that makes my teeth hurt, but this is all sorta lukewarm water round the ankles (or something equally swampy).

an interesting question is what drives this focus on percentages (i.e. what percentage of whom does what with what) as heading towards some sort of entertainment egalitarianism. if 70% of the people who play tetris are women between the ages of 15 and 35, what does that mean? (if you don't work for an ad placement agency or are a sociologist, that is)

this one was pretty good, however.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/50/3

there's another answer to her "why aren't there small girl protagonists in games" which is tied into the same reasons the deaths of women and children (as compared to men) are approached differently by nearly every population group i can think of.

then again, we're about ripe for a female link. that'd be a nice change of pace. it's violent, but not really.

a female gta protagonist would be really, really interesting, even in the lumpen iron hands of rockstar. and not just as an unlockable.

and, of course, fuck the boobicon.
_________________

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

I think this is an excellent time to point out that Rule of Rose will be released on August 29th.

That just about sums things up.
_________________
“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

ryan · . Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 999

If the horse could scream, it would have lost interest in continuing to beg for mercy. I think now it would just be mad that no one cared enough to stop.
_________________
Come to me, Mordel. We shall depart.

Mr. Mechanical · Friendly Stranger Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

I don't see Dess' article. Maybe they're saving it for the weekend version?

dhex · Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 12:56 pm Post subject:

that's what i assumed, since that's when they tend to save their contrarian pieces. of which i am presuming dess' shall be.

hey shapes, isn't rule of rose japan only?
_________________

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

dhex · Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:50 pm Post subject:

_________________

squidlarkin · . Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 100

My response to that (pretty good) Escapist article was, "Play Umihara Kawase!". But that might have been missing the point.

Kinda curious about Rule of Rose, though. Should be interesting to see how they present it.

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

thatbox · . Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 99 Location: nashville / nola

Can we use a gaming girl issue as an excuse for lots of sexy artwork, is the important question.
_________________

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

dessgeega · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:46 pm Post subject:

we should have an issue where i write everything.

faithless can write something too, i guess.

kinuko can draw a cover of me setting fire to penises.
_________________

dhex · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject:

do penises burn for great justice?
_________________

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

The wicker penis does.
_________________
"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

dhex · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:42 pm Post subject:

fahrenheit 1000
(the temperature at which wangs burn)
_________________

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

"Penis On Fire"

Hey, that's a Justin Lin movie.

DonMarco · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903

Shouldn't a fake not-parody girl gamer's issue have Choaniki's Samson on the cover?

Because girls dig phallic bodybuilders. OR IS THAT THE OTHER WAY AROUND??
_________________
Collector of over 1,538 strategy guides. That's weird, right?

dessgeega · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject:

TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

I think the problem is, if you have a female protagonist, what would they do?

Many video games are about men going out and doing manly things, like slay dragons while flexing their muscles, and thrusting their phallic swords deeply into blood-dripping demons.

Sure, you could put a woman in there, but you get caught into a trap. Either you have to explain to the audience why this woman is doing all these men things, or it becomes oh-so-ironic that a woman is doing these men things. Or, you could just change the game to being about the woman knitting or something lame like that. Basically, whatever way you go, you're not exactly hitting a homer for the girls' team.

It's difficult to think of a standard videogame situation where a woman can be brought in and not be questioned all that much. It's really about the audience's preconceptions about women in video games.

Videogames are typically about conflict, and conflict is seen as a male area, so men tend to be more involved in videogames. I think this situation is temporary, however--as more videogames are made, there will be more archetypes of female heroes for designers to choose from. I've had an idea for a videogame about a woman swordmaster would be about 30 and have a few unsightly scars that I've always thought would help the situation along, but really I'd be too afraid of falling into "hey a woman with a sword ironic lol" trap.

Basically, I think it would be great to see more women in games, especially ones that aren't just sexual objects of some sort, but it's going to take a while.

dessgeega · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:55 pm Post subject:

ApM · Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject:

*record scratch*

what

You should play The Secret of Monkey Island, Tollmaster. Carla the Sword Master will kick your ass. The "irony" of the player assuming that the Sword Master will be a man is played to make you feel like a bit of an ass for assuming it. Not to mention the character of Governer Marley, who you spend the game thinking is a damsel in distress only to find that she had the situation at least as under control as you did. Mostly the swordmaster though, since you brought her up.

I'm assuming you didn't actually mean to say that the only thing women do is knit.

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

If he did, I'd suggest picking up a history book.
_________________
"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

Zack · . Joined: 21 Oct 2005 Posts: 26

dhex · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:55 am Post subject:

[dick hat]
are we talking about actual warfare here?
[/dick hat]
_________________

ApM · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:32 am Post subject:

Tollmaster, upon re-reading, it seems that what you're really trying to say is that the games industry is creatively bankrupt, which I can accept as an argument, though I don't entirely agree. Obviously if we keep making the same game forever, nothing is going to change. Next time, try not to phrase it so much like you are the one who is not aware that women are actually people who do stuff.

Zack, the sword master thing is not made into a big deal; I think there's maybe three lines of dialogue from Guybrush expressing surprise to Guybrush getting over it. Monkey Island is goofing on genre conventions, rather than an assumed sexism on the part of the player. Regardless, all I wanted to get across was that it's entirely possible to create a compelling videogame character who is both a woman and a swordfighter.

My bigger point was actually the Wikipedia link. Beyond Good and Evil? The Colonel's Bequest? Metroid? No One Lives Forever? Um Jammer Lammy? Trace Memory? American McGee's Alice? Eternal Darkness? Harvest Moon? Umihara Kawase? Golly, seems like female videogame characters can do pretty much anything!

dhex, you seriously emailed your sister to ask what temperature penises burn at? That's possibly the best thing I've ever heard.

dhex · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:56 am Post subject:

Faithless · . Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 153

Mr. Apol · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject:

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

ryan · . Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 999

dhex · Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject:

i had to look that up on wikipedia. never heard of that before.
_________________

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

It's Grade A amusement in between wars.
_________________
"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

dhex · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:53 am Post subject:

and here we go:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/50/20
_________________

SuperWes · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:55 am Post subject:

I read it! Pretty powerful! Why don't any of our carryover authors put www.thegamersquarter.com in their author descriptions. Sad

-Wes
_________________

dhex · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 8:59 am Post subject:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/50/22

this wasn't bad either, though it gets a bit confusing with the way the author unravels the story.
_________________

dessgeega · Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:11 am Post subject:

the meet the team page ended up much more pleasingly facetious than i expected.
_________________

helicopterp · . Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia

Great read, Dess.

Now, what I want to know is: who is that fly bitch as the cover art sporting a controller draped over her hip-huggers? Laughing

(The emoticon with the twitching upper lip is the appropriately creepy one here, right?)
_________________
Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one.

TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

Yeah, guys. I'm sorry I sounded like a complete jackass. I'm not good with translating my thoughts into words!

The point I'm trying to make is not that women can't slay dragons, but that they aren't commonly associated with the activity. So, if you have a woman slaying a dragon, it enters into "ironic" territory all too easily. It's basically taking one stereotype and replacing it with another, from my point of view.

There are certainly female protagonists, but I don't really think I would consider many of them to be "good" protagonists. Women can't be shown in situations of conflict without it seeming unnatural, somehow. Not because women can't be aggressive, but because we don't really have the game-vocabulary for the idea, yet. Hell--how many action movies star women who aren't there to be sexual objects?

It's a tough battle, I think. Certain examples spring to mind of female characters done right--the Eternal Darkness lead, Samus Aran, Lise from SD3--but we, as gamers, have to get our collective minds out of the gutter. Sometimes, a woman can be there without having to look "cute" or "sexy." I'm waiting for the game that puts a plain, or even ugly, woman as the protagonist's love interest--just to see game developers scramble over the concepts of "individuality" and "personality." It ought to be fun!

As an addendum, there is a bit of a similar situation for men. Complex, conflict-avoidant characters such as Shinji from Eva and Fei from Xenogears are bashed constantly because they don't immediately take charge of the situation, or even want to be involved. You expect a guy in a game or anime to get things done without thinking about it, and when they do, we complain. And those were very early and childish scribblings to what could be done with the concept of a mostly average hero who, for the most part, stays average.

dessgeega · Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:18 am Post subject:

thank goodness for random imagebank shots, eh?

at least when you're looking for stock photography at the 11th hour, i mean.

TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

ApM · Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject:

Tollmaster, you should read Blink.

Also, the problem with your argument isn't that you are saying that people have prejudices, it's that you're arguing that completely avoiding contradicting them is somehow a worthy goal. The best way to get gamers' minds out of the gutter is to give them games that defy that expectation! People will have their two-second wait-this-isn't-what-I'm-expecting reaction, and then, unless they're assholes, they'll get over it.

sawtooth · . Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 419

I don't think that toll is asking for people to avoid going against stereotypes, just for people to avoid going against stereotypes and then shouting HEY GENERAL PUBLIC WE'RE DEFYING CONVENTIONS ARE YOU SHOCKED/AMUSED YET? It would be the difference between guybrush threepwood walking up to the sword master and saying "whoah I didn't know you were a girl woooooowie is that throwing me for a loop" and threepwood not finding the fact that she was indeed a woman shocking at all.
_________________

Lackey · . Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada

See, I can't for the life of me remember Guybrush making a big deal about the Swordmaster being a woman but I'm pretty sure I remember that moment too. Not that this is the point you're making.

I agree with the general sentiment that deliberate, obvious reversals of genre conventions are a poor approach. At least in part because they sort of reinforce the original message of those conventions. That said, I can't remember the last time I was surprised to see a female cast in an active role.
_________________
| Little bird fighting against a bat sect game |

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

I have recently remembered that the protagonist of Ray Force is female. It is also a fairly tragic story. It is very good either way!
_________________
“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

dessgeega · Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:49 am Post subject:

it is the story of a woman who blows up the earth.

i think that's fantastic.
_________________

dhex · Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:03 pm Post subject:

aren't all shooter stories tragic in the sense that they involve the deaths of thousands of beings (alien or otherwise)?
_________________

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

dhex · Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject:

i did, then went back to giga wing. guwange is pretty interesting, too.

anyway: