The Gamer's Quarter

[Ryan - SuperWes' Bane]

I'm just wondering, is there one out there? . I was the notorious button masher back in my Freshman year when I played against Wes and his roomies in games like Marvel Vs. Capcom and what not . . . but since then I've really developed into a better gamer. I was playing King of Fighters at the Arcade the other day, and actually made it to the Final Boss Rugal, before getting my ass royally kicked by the cheap bastard. But this got me back to thinking ... I used to NEVER be that good at arcade games. Have I really evolved as a gamer in the past 5 years? Have my experiences in other genres led to this improvement? Or is it merely the repetition of games these days, having relatively the same button combonations for every other game. It's amazing how similar moves in KOF and any capcom game seem to be.

Aside from the 3D arena (Tekkens and VF's), has the 2D button configuration/ style of moves changed at all over the years?

[friedchicken]

No. And I'd go so far as to say that any attempt to change the basic 2D fighter command motions has over-simplified the game in question.

[Shapermc]

Sure, play the EO versions of CvS2 and MvC2. You will also get taunted by little girls. Your best bet is just to stop.

[Lackey]

I rarely play fighting games because the button combinations seem completely arcane to me...I don't think it's a skill I'll ever want to invest time in learning.

The only one I've ever done decently at is Soul Caliber 2, and that's because there's a pretty predictable pattern of use to the vertical and horizontal attacks.
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| Little bird fighting against a bat sect game |

[player 2]

2D fighters have evolved in very subtle, but important ways:

With Super Turbo we were given the super move which is pretty much a souped up special move. It wasn't perfected, and it wasn't exploited to its full potential, but.... well... it's Super Turbo, so no one particularly cares. It's good, but Capcom knew they had to move on.

Alpha started taking advantage of supers. Alpha was all over the exploitation of the super. Eventually, by Alpha 3, we had 3 versions of each character, all having different super moves. The 3 tiered Aism is the Capcom standard. It was their "simple" mode. Vism was the beginning of Capcom really understanding Parrying. They wanted people to have temporary invincibility and a slight frame advantage when pulling a Vism. It was dangerous to do, but it led to some amazing combos and intense games when pulled off right. And Xism was... well, it was old school.

Alongside the Alpha series, there were the Vs. games. Vs. games and the KoF series pretty much go hand in hand in the "Who's copying who" between Capcom and SNK. SNK handled this in a much classier way, I want to say, but they also never really made any interesting impact with the multi-character system outside of 94 and 03 (I don't count strikers because they are just bad). And 03 was just ripping off Capcom. So really, it was Capcom that was making steps forward with innovation: multiple character tagging, regeneration, super team attacks, and their own version of strikers.

There are three paths being taken here. Alpha was the leader, the balanced one of the group. Like Visms, the Vs. series was flashy and over the top. And the Xisms were oldschool. Third Strike is distinctly old school. Everything was new, but simple. New characters, new graphics, new everything. It is the most "hardcore" of the Capcom fighters still played today, and should (but has not yet completely) overcome Super Turbo. Parrying was the main new "thing" in the Three series. Some people would call it a gimmick, but I think it is really the next evolution for 2D fighters. Let me try to explain:

Karoshi said it so perfectly one time. He talked about boxes surrounding your enemy and blah blah. This is how I understood it: extrapolate any moment of any match, and there are many potentials. Potential situations you can be in. Attacking certain areas, defending certain areas, evading certain areas, or merely moving to another location with more potential. Your goal is merely to make your potentials be able to overcome and defeat your opponent's potentials. If your opponent was good enough, he could absolutely corner you. The attacker had the advantage. There was no longer a give and take.

And along comes the parry. It is ultimate defense. It works very much in the same way that invincibility frames work, except it is more difficult and less forgiving. I am not sure if you have seen it. I am not sure I have really seen it. You can try, but I'm not sure you'll really get it: Parrying proves you are God. No longer can the attacker secure a victory. Unless you are performing a counter, you can no longer move directly in for the win. The parry breaks the previous mold. The boxes are faint memories, and any battle can be turned around for a win.

A short answer to your question, "yes".
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Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

[friedchicken]

Yes, but the basics of the moves themselves are just mixed together in very similar ways. Sure, parrying in SFIII and V-ism in SFA3 are new additions to the gameplay, but a fireball move is most likely going to be a QCF or charge B, F motion, and an upward attack will most likely be a F,D,DF or charge D, U motion. Interestingly enough, the most innovation (in my opinion, that is) has come in the SNK games, where super move commands got remarkably baroque for a few years (sadly, they have since been simplified for the most part).

I think you've either got the temperament to be a calm, measured player, or a button masher. Maybe there's some Zen-like approach to breaking out of button mashing? I, for instance, have really calmed down since I first picked up KOF back at university. I suspect the change is more with me than with the games.

Sure, King of Fighters has changed a lot since '94. New systems are still there, but the basics remain the same-- if you don't have the patience to learn the super moves, or what standard attacks combo into what other attacks, you're still just going to pound on buttons. Beyond that, though, there are those super-high-level players who can kick the shit out of a fairly competent opponent with ease-- they're the reason why I pretty much stopped playing arcade fighters in the arcade.

Yeah, and Shaper, I've played CVS EO on the Cube. It's one step above trying to play it with a mouse.

[player 2]

What I was trying to explain was how real Super Turbo players had to learn new techniques as to adapt to new gimmicks. Of course the moves are the same motions over and over again. Changing them would not mean an evolution. Using them in interesting ways means evolution. I mean, yeah, Third Strike lets you buffer your charges inbetween dashes so you can dash forward and flash kick, but... that doesn't solve the button masher problem.

The zen thing you're talking about, though. That's pretty key.
_________________
Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

[Ryan - SuperWes' Bane]

I absolutely love the dash function on KOF. It really ads a new element to fighters for me. It adds another type of attack and creates quite a variety in motions. Was KOF the first to add this or was it Mortal Kombat? I think the function in KOF is much easier and useful to use. And another game I liked, and helped me to break out of button masher mode was Killer Instinct. In order to pull off better combos, you had to alternate attacks between kick and punch, and also different strengths of these. When you started a combo and achieved one of those ULTRA 30 hit combos ... well, it felt good.

[Shapermc]