The Gamer's Quarter

[simplicio]

Cause I've been seeing lots of series ranked recently and I'm curious about the ones I haven't played. Therefore:

Pokemon (I almost bought Emerald today cause I think I've heard Shaper referencing it on and off, but I figured maybe it's not The One and that's really the cause of this thread.)
Sonic (Maybe 2D & 3D, if the latter's actually worth it).
Mega Man (X counts, Battle Network doesn't)
Dragon Quest
and whatever else you want to throw in there with 4+ iterations.

[Swimmy]

For Dragon Quest, I will say 1 or 5. 1 should put every RPG development since the NES in perspective. 5 should put every Dragon Quest development since the NES in perspective.

For Sonic, I'll actually suggest Sonic 2 for the Game Gear. It's very, very different from its Genesis counterpart. Chaos Emeralds lie about the stages for you to find on your own without going through annoying mini-games. (Tails cannot fucking jump on time in the Genesis mini-game, and it is motherfucking annoying.) I think it's an underappreciated game. Then again, I haven't played it since middle school, so I might have me some rose-colored glasses on.
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"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin

[sawtooth]

A lot of these series I've only had spotty exposure to, but I'd recommend one of the first-generation pokemon titles (red or blue, the difference is more or less lost on me). It's worth it just for the saffron city music alone (although Super Smash Brothers did a pretty nice rendition). I've played pokemon sapphire, and it really doesn't change much from all of the other games, so there's no Final Fantasy 1 - Final Fantasy 6 leap of difference, though.

Oh, and Kirby Superstar. Although there isn't a game in the kirby series that I don't absolutely adore (excluding the GBA ones, as I've never played those).

[dessgeega]

i had the urge to play sonic 2 last night, so i did (on my gamecube). i played up to the final boss, and used up most of my continues re-learning mecha sonic's pattern. then i played the original sonic, up to the spring yard zone (because i can't stand the underwater labyrinth). conclusions: i still like sonic 3 the best, because i can play it from start to finish at whim. sonic & knuckles doesn't count, though, despite technically being an extension of sonic 3.

my favorite dragon quest is the third one, too. i think it's the one where horii & co. finally got everything figured out, and ever following dragon quest game is merely a variant on it. that being said, V is wonderful, but III is quintessential.

and kirby superstar is the best kirby ever, particularly with two players.

AND you know what? ultima V: warriors of destiny.
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[dhex]

[simplicio]

Oh, no way. Ultima VII beats the pants off V. I can't think of anything as immersive that predates it, and it cleared the way for the Western RPG as we know it today.

Was Kirby Superstar on the SNES? I'll check it out, but that series (up until the DS version) never did anything for me. Blue skies and all, I guess, but they always felt completely hollow when I played them.

[EDIT] Here's another addition to the list: Shin Megami Tensei.

[sawtooth]

I don't get it. Hollow? And yes, superstar is on the snes.


Actually, you know what? I'm changing my vote to Kirby's Nightmare in Dreamland, for the NES. Every time I play it I can't help but feel that I've touched greatness.

[simplicio]

Is it really the Blue Skies thing then? That you can float your way through most levels without any sort of conflict? I'm all for that conceptually, but I was personally never drawn into the world of Kirby. It made me feel like I was observing a mental ward where all involved were too drugged to register the world around them. I can't even remember what Kirby is trying to do- is there a reason he's on his quest? I'm pretty sure Canvas Curse has something to do with an alternate dimension, but I have no idea why those bosses are there, or even what the nefarious mastermind was scheming; I loved it cause of the gameplay alone.

[sawtooth]

"floating above everything" is only really a problem on a select few stages of the early worlds in the first game. I don't recall doing that in any of the other games (except maybe the first kirby on gameboy, but I can't remember that game very well). I never floated above because that bored me and didn't help me uncover many secrets or get the good powers.

And I really don't care about the Blue Skies movement, joke, seriously, or otherwise.

oh, and in Kirby's Dreamland, kirby's on a quest to retrieve the rod of dreams (or something like that) that was stolen by King Dede. Said King broke up this rod and divided it among his friends for safekeeping (the bosses). When Kirby finally defeats King Dede, Nightmare comes along, ruins everything, and it's kirby's job to defeat Nightmare once and for all. And I think this is the basic plot for all of the games, too.

That's really not what sells each game for me, though. The powers are really interesting, balanced, and used well in each game, but that's not the best thing either.

For me, it's the secrets. So many well-hidden things behind puzzles and cleverly-concealed doorways, sometimes having to carry a single power through a gauntlet of enemies. Superstar always seemed a lot more straightforward than Dreamland, even though the powers you received were 1000% cooler. All of the puzzles were left for the Great Cave Offensive, which is not a bad thing, but I really liked the way they were integrated in Dreamland.

The mental ward observation isn't an entirely unwarranted comparison, though.

And I.... think it's wrong to like a platformer for anything but the gameplay.

What kirby games have you played?

[dhex]

[Lackey]

I'm pretty much with sawtooth on this one. I never owned a SNES but I played through Superstars several times with a good friend. Actually, other than the Bonk games, it may be the only platformer I've played to completion.

[dhex]

tie fighter is 90s awesomeness incarnate.
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[Lackey]

I agree wholeheartedly. It was from a time when Lucasarts seemed to know what to do with their licenses (Rebel Assualt excepted and such). And if I had to pick a Dark Forces game it would be the first. Lightsabers weren't so cool as people thought.
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| Little bird fighting against a bat sect game |

[dessgeega]

[simplicio]

[Swimmy]

Kirby Superstar is strictly for two players, and it's mostly just there for Great Cave Offensive. Everything else is just candy. Though the Meta Knight one is very pretty candy. Everything has this setting sun tint... ah.

So, which Harvest Moon is the best these days? I played the hell out of the SNES one, in the days of emulation fever. Is the GBC one at least as good? 'Cause I saw it cheap.
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"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin

[dhex]

[img]]Lightsabers weren't so cool as people thought.[/img]

yeah, but force jump ruled. plus, pulling out everyone's blasters and making them run away is fun. i never bothered with the dark side, though. i might pick up jedi outcast eventually.

but tie fighter...shit, the end missions when you have the tie advanced and you're fighting off what seems like hundreds of enemy ships, or trying to take down a star destroyer without any missiles or backup...yeah, that's cool stuff.
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[Lackey]

I found it amusing that going to the dark side in Jedi Knight was simply a matter of murdering dozens of random civillians. I actually enjoyed Jedi Knight though. It had a great sense of scale that most FPSes of the time totally lacked. Some of those open areas were massive.

I was actually fairly involved with the level-making community for this game. You know people still release levels for it fairly regularly?

And tie fighter...hey pilot, why don't you just go and fight like, ten frigates? No, you don't need backup, silly! I lost a lot of sympathy for the rebel alliance with that game. I mean seriously, their ships are stacked.

The tie interceptor is a beautiful thing though, and you feel way more badass taking down an x-wing when you don't have shields. That's real piloting.
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[Shapermc]

Well, let me see what I can put together here:

Pokemon: I would not start with Emerald. I would go with Fire Red or Leaf Green. Emerald is like Hard Type Ruby and Saphire as I understand it. Fire/Leaf are remakes of the original games with some really nice touches added. They were really built to be played after you have Ruby/Saphire if you played the originals because of the nostalga value. I would not recommend them if you played the GB games, just jump straight to which ever of the new ones for the GBA. I personally don't like the 3D ones.

Sonic: Well, just get the Mega Collection. 1, 2 and 3 are all fantastic games for their own reasons and I suggest playing them in order. They are not too hard or too long. You don't want to ask me about the 3D ones because I like Heroes which most people (rightfully) don't.

Megaman: Well this is hard. I would say get the Anniversary collection and start on 2. From there just pick and choose what you like. Some are really bad. Megamand and Bass is one of my personal favorites but is pretty hard. I also really enjoyed X 1-4.

Dragon Quest: Jump straight to 8. I am playing it now and it is fantastic. Don't start with 7 whatever you do.

[Lackey]

I really loved the SNES Harvest Moon, but I never got into the GC one to the same degree. Still, the scheduling and task planning in the GC Harvest Moon can be a lively mental exercise. It seems like you always have more going on at once than the other ones.
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[SuperWes]

I've been out of this thread for a while, but here's my catch up:

Harvest Moon - Harvest Moon PS1
I didn't play any of them until the N64 version, but my favorite is easily the PS1 version. It's more gameplay-oriented than the current-gen versions and the tension of trying to get everything done in a day is balanced so that you'll have to sacrifice something every day and you're left make that tough decision daily.

Pokemon - Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald
I would recommend only playing Pokemon if you know someone else locally who is playing it. The game is all about building your Pokemon up and trading them. Even if you never do trade them, the possibility that you just might makes the game compelling enough to continue on.

Sonic 2D - Sonic Jam
It's a cop-out, but this is the best collection of Sonic games in existance.

Sonic 3D - Sonic Adventure
Not essential, but Sonic Adventure when playing as Sonic is a great balance of playing fun stages and exploring the possibilities of 3D. This stuff doesn't matter as much as it did when the game came out, but because of what the game did and when it did it there are parts of Sonic Adventure that stand out in my mind as some of my favorite gaming moments of all time.

Mega Man - Mega Man Legends
It's not really a Mega Man game, but if you haven't played any other ones your expectations won't turn this into a let-down.

Dragon Quest - Dragon Quest 8
Just like Shaper I'm really enjoying this one. Despite its length it's just a joy to play that I can actually see myself possibly finishing it some day. A must-play.

Kirby - Kirby's Dreamland 2
I'm not sure why nobody has suggested this one yet, but this is Kirby at his best and most complicated. Kirby's Dreamland 2 required you to have certain abilities while riding certain animals to reach certain secrets which made it the most replayable in the series and one that's maybe too complicated for its target audience. It's so good that I've been let down by every Kirby since (with the exception of the DS version).

-Wes
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[sawtooth]

I have Kirby 2. While I like it, it doesn't feel as open and expansive as all of the other games. It is very good, though. I played Kirby 3 before 2, though, so it sort of spoiled the animals for me, and it has a lot of similar puzzles. 3 also has my favorite graphics. It really helps enhance the dreamlike feeling the series has.

[GSL]

On the topic of Harvest Moon, I'm a big fan of the Nintendo 64 version. It's a bit more simplistic in its execution than any of the newer ones on GBA, Gamecube, or PS2, and plus I just LOVE the psuedo-3D sprites in the game. I also enjoy the static top-down view - the 3D camera gets a little annoying in the console versions. I dislike the GBA games mainly on account of what I find to be a rather screwy control scheme.

I can't authoratatively say this is THE best Harvest Moon game, however, as I haven't played the second and third GBC outing, nor (gasp!) the ridiculously-priced SNES installment. On its own, though, Harvest Moon 64 is still pretty darned good.

[nICO]

Haven't really posted much anywhere the past few months (busy reading, writing, and all), but I guess this thread is as good a place as any to slowly start up again.

I agree with Shaper that Sonic 1, 2, and 3 should all be played for different reasons. I especially suggest playing them in order, then -immediately- starting over again. As soon as you beat 3, play 1 for a while and the differences between the two games become strikingly apparent.

Star Light Zone of Sonic 1 is my favorite Sonic level. I like to think it's not just because of the music, but I don't know...

Oddly enough, I went to list my favorite Sonic games in order, and (today at least) each major entry in the series got lower than the last. From the top I like:

Sonic 1
Sonic 2
Sonic 3
Sonic and Knuckles
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Heroes

With the last two thrown on to continue the pattern, despite the fact they both really suck.


I'd also like to throw out a question I would really appreciate a good answer to (Superwes maybe?). Which Mario Party, 1-6, is the best if you only want to own one and ignoring price?
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Brauner: Damn you, humans... You selfishly start wars and despoil the earth. Perhaps justice wasn't on my side but I will never admit that it was on yours.

[dessgeega]

mario party 2 is the peak of the mario party series.
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[simplicio]

I've only played Mario Party 4-6, and I like 6 the best; the night/day cycle adds a little gameplay, and NPCs move faster, which is of utmost importance. I've never once used the microphone though. I thought the N64 versions included thumb/controller-destroying analog rotation games? I haven't heard anything good about those.

Shaper, I got Megaman & Bass a while back when I sprang for a whole stack of cheap used stuff. After I completed the prologue, it's been sitting around unplayed. It's really disconcerting to me to see Megaman that cartoony (and tall!); what got you into the game? I really liked MM X back on the SNES but I think I might have been fooled into a notion of progress through the armor collection.

And could somebody just list me off the Pokemon titles and how they relate to each other? I'm so confused.

While we're on it, did you know the only Zelda title I ever finished was Wind Waker? I even own practically all of them (Missing one of the Oracles, the GBC Awakening DX and GC Four Swords) and I try really hard to be absorbed by them now and again but it's surprisingly difficult for me. There's a great TGQ story in me somewhere about my childhood friends and how we each latched onto a particular RPG; mine was Secret of Mana and for some reason I could never get into other Action RPGs afterward.

[sawtooth]

[player 2]

The Megaman debate has always been between Megaman 2 and 3. Always. What the fuck is this Rockman & Forte shit? It's good, but it's no Megaman 3.
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Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

[dessgeega]

[Shapermc]

[dessgeega]

[SuperWes]

[Shapermc]

[SuperWes]

The control in the Gamecube version sucks because it's in 3D but requires the precision of the 2D games. And level grinding in Harvest Moon rocks. If you haven't played the game yourself you don't really have a frame of reference as watching anyone level grind doesn't quite have the same effect as actually level grinding yourself.

-Wes
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[Shapermc]

I was stating impressions as they were told to me. Also, the precision of watering (which I belive you are refering to) was balanced out by having more water in your watering can. Yes, it is a little more difficult, but it is much easier to navigate the towns in general. The PS2 version is less precise than the GC version.

[SuperWes]

The PS2 version blows.

The PS1 version! That's where it's at!

My biggest gripe with the Gamecube version is that you have to constantly eat to keep your strength up or else you can't be effective at all.

-Wes
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[Tablesaw]

[SuperWes]

[Shapermc]

Ok, to make it more simple than Wes did:

Symphony of the Night is the one to play. If you like that move on to Harmony of Dissonance or Aria of Sorrow (more people like the later). If you don't like the style and want more of a throw back go with Castlevania Chronicles (fantastic game here) and Rondo of Blood (unless you have gobs of money I say emulate it).

There are others, but those are the branches I would take.

[dessgeega]

rondo of blood owns all castlevania.
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[player 2]

Castlevania 3 is the peak of the series.
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Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

[Swimmy]

I like Simon's Quest much better than the other classic ones. 3 kind of bored me, after that.
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"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin

[dhex]

i will praise c2 in a single line of text.
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[GSL]

[dessgeega]

[nICO]

[dessgeega]

[Lackey]

Times infinity!
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| Little bird fighting against a bat sect game |

[GSL]

[dessgeega]

i happen to think soul collecting is the worst thing that ever happened to the castlevania series.
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