The Gamer's Quarter

nICO · . Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 120 Location: WVUSA

Harmony of Dissonance surprised me. I mean, I love it. But most think it is trash...or at least average...for reasons that are very understandable.
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Brauner: Damn you, humans... You selfishly start wars and despoil the earth. Perhaps justice wasn't on my side but I will never admit that it was on yours.

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

I went to sleep and realised that I excluded Silent Hill 2. I think it may be at the top of a "top" for me, near it anyways.

nICO · . Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 120 Location: WVUSA

It's probably my favorite GBA Castlevania.

As similar as the GBA trilogy must appear to most people, each title attempts to do something fundamentally different.

Circle of the Moon, far from the Symphony of the NIght knock-off it was billed as, is an old-school platformer held together by a cohesive castle design.

Harmony of Dissonance is an adventure. Nothing more, nothing less. It's a boy's fantasy.

Aria of Sorrow has stronger story elements than the other two (though that's not saying much) and has the feel of a puzzle that's begging to be cracked. It's not as extreme as, say, Minish Cap, but the castle is tightly designed with little waste and the soul system encourages trying to complete everything in the game. Not a very good description, I know, but hell...

I like all three, but enjoyed Harmony the most.
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Brauner: Damn you, humans... You selfishly start wars and despoil the earth. Perhaps justice wasn't on my side but I will never admit that it was on yours.

SuperWes · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:34 pm Post subject:

I don't know how you guys like Harmony of Dissonance so much. If Castlevania: Symphony of the Night is Metroid Prime, Harmony of Dissonance is Metroid Prime 2: Echos. Harmony of Dissonance seems to disregard all logic and ease of navigation for the sake of having a singular world with different versions of it.

And if you're wondering where Aria of Sorrow fits into this metaphor, its straightforward world design and emphasis on optional but simple exploration that travels just slightly off of the main path would make it a Super Metroid.

-Wes
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Mister Toups · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:30 pm Post subject:

dessgeega · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:37 pm Post subject:

and twelve different times of day depending on what part of the castle(s) you're standing in.
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SuperWes · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject:

Metroid Prime 2 has atompshere too. It's just that the atmosphere it puts you in isn't very appealing.

HoD's world is split up between different castles that might as well be a single castle but aren't because they're trying to do something that harkens back to Symphony of the Night's upside down castle concept. For me this was transparent and highly indicative that they really didn't understand why it was that the upside down castle was so awesome.

That, and I got really lost several times.

-Wes
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dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

I dunno, I kinda preferred the idea of a Universe A/Universe B castle to the upside-down one, although I wish they'd done something more interesting with the concept.

SuperWes · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:01 pm Post subject:

That's kinda my point. What were they even doing with the concept in the first place? Is there any reason to have an A castle and a B castle? And wasn't there a C castle too?

-Wes
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dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

There was an AB, yes. Hurrah for the holographic universe!

SuperWes · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 3:06 pm Post subject:

In my experience the only game that's ever gotten that whole dark and light gameplay concept right was the first Soul Reaver. And that's just because there was a distinct purpose for each of the worlds.

Too bad about all the box pushing.

-Wes
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dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

You know Soul Reaver did have a ton going for it. Especially towards the end where the game opened up all of a sudden without giving you clear objectives. For a game on the psx, the sense of 3D scale was really palatable.

Those boxes, though.

And that ending! Apparently, the first line of some publication's Soul Reaver 2 review read: "Yes, this one has pretty much the same cliffhanger too." Tragic. It's like the first Tomb Raider or GTA, all that potential and they just slaughter it.

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

HoD was not only aware of what the upside down castle was trying to do, but it did it better and was well implemented at that. On top of that it was firmly grounded in the facts of the games that preceded it. It is the ultimate shedding of the old play style of Castlevania that there could have been. Now you have moved completely from what was the NES/SNES/Genny Castlevania and tied it with the attempts to progress the series through Rondo and into Symphony of the night and turned into a true exploration based game over the previous trial-error-repeat game that it was. It is the final evolution of the game and then Aria of Sorrow is just a build on that evolution. Until HoD the series was still fumbling around a little with what it was trying to do (I should mention that this is completely ignoring the 3D games) until HoD, while not the most graceful attempt, it completely removed everything prior in terms of play that attached it to the old style that it use to be, while still keeping the atmosphere and familiarity of the series. While flawed it is truly important and can't be looked at as anything other than great.

Mister Toups · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:48 pm Post subject:

He has a point.

The dual castle is also a great example of using gameplay to express plot ideas.
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dessgeega · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:34 pm Post subject:

SuperWes · Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject:

That's kind of my point. You guys are right that it has atmosphere, but there's not really a differing atmosphere between the different castles. Metroid Prime 2 at least got that part right. In Castlevania though it may as well have just been one castle. And the way they merge together makes it too easy to lose track of where you have and haven't been. Even with the map.

And how does HoD shed the trial and error gameplay? Isn't it pretty much the same thing as SotN and CotM?

-Wes
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nICO · . Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 120 Location: WVUSA

Mister Toups · Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:05 am Post subject:

SuperWes · Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:30 am Post subject:

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

I tried really hard to like Circle of the Moon, then I sold it and got a used copy of Aria of Sorrow, and I'm kinda half-heartedly trying to like that, but I think something about the collection thing really turns me off. You know, I've been playing some Riviera lately, and I'm enjoying the limited set battles, with more or less guaranteed items. It's then a question of whether or not you want to use said items to gain X effect. Castlevania presents a more traditional model of "kill enemy X 35 times in hopes of getting special item Y", and that just wears on me and makes me not want to continue, whether or not it's entirely optional.

Mister Toups · Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:32 am Post subject:

The "kill x monster in hope of getting y item" thing is entirely optional in AoS, though. You only need to do that for two particular souls to see the real ending. And often you actually find both of them on the way to the end of the game.

You really can't view AoS as a pokemon type game, because that's not what it is really about it. You don't ever have to collect 'em all, and the game never really encourages you to. It's more about how the game plays differently depending on which ones you have found. If you play it like pokemon you are ruining it for yourself.
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SuperWes · Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:39 am Post subject:

I agree with Toups entirely. You're never really encouraged to try to get everything in any of the Castlevania games until you've already beaten the game, and at that point you're either done with it or you like it enough that you're up to the challenge. Ironically, Riviera is proving to be exactly the opposite for me. I always end up getting a random item that isn't the item I wanted and being forced to reset and try again until I get the item I want.

That's certainly not how games should play.

-Wes
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Mister Toups · Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject:

This thread split really should've been called "Harmony of dissagreement"
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Mr. Mechanical · Friendly Stranger Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

Mister Toups · Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:41 pm Post subject:

A compromise which leaves neither side satisfied -- perfect!
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Have I admitted yet that I did not like the game after my first play through of it?

Mr. Mechanical · Friendly Stranger Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

nICO · . Joined: 19 Feb 2005 Posts: 120 Location: WVUSA

How do you guys think the new DS Castlevania will fit in relation to the different mechanics of the series? I haven't read any previews and all I know is that you'll have to circle the bosses on the touch screen to capture their souls.
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Brauner: Damn you, humans... You selfishly start wars and despoil the earth. Perhaps justice wasn't on my side but I will never admit that it was on yours.

dessgeega · Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject:

so we have to grab the stylus in the middle of a fight and draw a pentagram on the screen?

that doesn't sound like one of the more fun gameplay concepts i've heard lately.
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dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

I think it's "end of the fight." The point kinda escapes me too, though. Anyone who played it at E3 have some insight?

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Well I was talking with Wes about this a while back and he seemed to tell me I was wrong, but I thought that it was a good thing that it was going back to the Rondo of Blood style anime with the series. Then Wes told me it was just that anime is more popular than CG in Japan right now.

Makes sense.

Nonetheless I have the game pre-ordered and am guessing that the touch screen will hardly get used and it will not be intrusive.

SuperWes · Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:00 am Post subject:

Mister Toups · Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:34 am Post subject:

IT's pretty neat, I think. Basically you fight a boss and when he is about to die the symbol appears on the screen, and you have a few seconds to grab the stylus, and the trace the symbol -- it's actually kind of tough, you have to remember the order to connect the points and you have to keep your lines relatively straight -- and if you fail (which I did, once) the boss comes back with reduced health, and you have to fight him back a little bit more before you win.

I think it's a good touch, and it isn't too instrusive. It might be a problem if you're keeping the stylus tucked away in the back, though. It was hanging on a string at E3.
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Note to self: Buy String.

dessgeega · Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:52 am Post subject:

Mister Toups · Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:05 am Post subject:

I don't remember, really. It wasn't too hard to wear him back down, but it gave the battle an interesting level of dynamics that it wouldn't otherwise have.

Don't judge till you play.

The seals also open locked doors, apparently. (la dee frickin' da)
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mudokononastick

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279