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Darwinia

 
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disneyland
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:46 am    Post subject: Darwinia Reply with quote

European press has been very understanding and appreciative of the game, its theme and its incomparable aesthetics, but it's a love/hate relationship with gaming subculture and the hate seems to be pouring from this forum. Don't let that deter you; Darwinia is a very cool game. It's strategy for those who normally don't like strategy: streamlined and intuitive, yet with objectives that are clearly defined. The presentation, with amazingly vibrant vector geometry, huge atmospheric *soundscapes, and a crunchy C64-powered electronic score by Trash80, is unlike anything else out there. The entire Darwinian colony remains intact in a persistent state, even if you jack out of a level midway through its completion, lending a surprising sense of organic progression to the proceedings. This is also a great chance to practice your drawing precision before Okami appears, as Darwinia uses an addictive symbol drawing system to summon units on screen; there's no overly complex interface to click through here and no tedious resource blocks to micromanage. There are, however, squads with addictive Robotron-like twitch laser controls and concussive grenades, and all firepower reacts to the world's satisfying and ubiquitous gravity and physics. Every unit can also be leveled-up, enhancing existing abilities or opening up all-new abilities (with new symbol gestures) that will be added to their repertoire. Perhaps most surprising is Darwinia’s storyline, as Dr. Sepulveda struggles to free his little civilization from an unknown virus. Traveling towards the source while discovering the depth of the doctor’s research in the self-fulfilling society of the Darwinians is fascinating.

You can try the demo althought to be fair, this small slice is a pale shade of Darwinia's full breadth and quality, with a limited tutorial and minimal storyline. Although plagued by some unit pathing hiccups, many feel that Darwinia is one of the year's most unique and alluring games. I tend to agree.

Edit: *up to 7.1 surround.


Last edited by disneyland on Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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dark steve
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not quite true. The mac version is slow as all hell, and for no damn reason as far as I can tell.

It's damn hard too, there's little room for error and it seems to me there's a ridiculous amount of micromanagement. I'm not sure I understand why this thing's been hyped so much. It's rather pretty though. Kind of reminds me of Souls in the System. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's pretty overrated.

introversion's first game, uplink, on the other hand...
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While it is neat looking, I am absolutly no good at these kind of games. I did read a few articles about it (I think it was GamesTM that did a pretty good job of writing it up) and was interested in it a while back, but the game is just not my style.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there was a small debate on media bias following diygames posting their review of the game.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dark steve wrote:
It's damn hard too, there's little room for error and it seems to me there's a ridiculous amount of micromanagement. I'm not sure I understand why this thing's been hyped so much. It's rather pretty though. Kind of reminds me of Souls in the System. Maybe someone can explain it to me.


It's not "damn hard", please. The only levels with little room for error are escorts, for obvious reasons (a specific number of Darwinians must survive). Otherwise you can screw up quite a bit and there's ample breathing room to build up and proceed again, by design. Compared to most "RTS" games, and really, you can't say this is a pure RTS -- look at the squad and turret shooter controls, Darwinia is eminently more natural and simplified about its resources. "Ridiculous amount of micromanagement"? Nah. Your Darwinians require a little Lemmings-style pathfinding help, but that's about the extent of it. Set up leader paths and you can flow your Darwinians around several islands automatically. No "mining" for resources, no building structures. Everything is based on solving the level. Hell, even your units "level up" in a really natural way.

I think the hype is well deserved, but I suppose if you don't play beyond the first few levels and already form a conclusion about the game, you won't know where the hype is coming from. Which is, ultimately, in this case, your loss. Or perhaps all the media outlets were completely biased and you can't trust any review of Darwinia, anywhere, because of the mind control-like clout of Introversion. Or maybe the bandwagon of support for a cool low-budget title is too trendy to handle, since obviously everyone is drunk on "Let's stick up for the little guy with the unique nu-retro hybrid title, cuz it's cool to evangelize obscure games" juice.

No. It's just a cool little game worth playing. Hence the warm reception.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

disneyland wrote:
I think the hype is well deserved, but I suppose if you don't play beyond the first few levels and already form a conclusion about the game, you won't know where the hype is coming from. Which is, ultimately, in this case, your loss. Or perhaps all the media outlets were completely biased and you can't trust any review of Darwinia, anywhere, because of the mind control-like clout of Introversion. Or maybe the bandwagon of support for a cool low-budget title is too trendy to handle, since obviously everyone is drunk on "Let's stick up for the little guy with the unique nu-retro hybrid title, cuz it's cool to evangelize obscure games" juice.


your snippiness will not make the game a more memorable experience.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
disneyland wrote:
I think the hype is well deserved, but I suppose if you don't play beyond the first few levels and already form a conclusion about the game, you won't know where the hype is coming from. Which is, ultimately, in this case, your loss. Or perhaps all the media outlets were completely biased and you can't trust any review of Darwinia, anywhere, because of the mind control-like clout of Introversion. Or maybe the bandwagon of support for a cool low-budget title is too trendy to handle, since obviously everyone is drunk on "Let's stick up for the little guy with the unique nu-retro hybrid title, cuz it's cool to evangelize obscure games" juice.


your snippiness will not make the game a more memorable experience.


But it does make your negativity rather forgetful.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

disneyland wrote:
dessgeega wrote:
disneyland wrote:
I think the hype is well deserved, but I suppose if you don't play beyond the first few levels and already form a conclusion about the game, you won't know where the hype is coming from. Which is, ultimately, in this case, your loss. Or perhaps all the media outlets were completely biased and you can't trust any review of Darwinia, anywhere, because of the mind control-like clout of Introversion. Or maybe the bandwagon of support for a cool low-budget title is too trendy to handle, since obviously everyone is drunk on "Let's stick up for the little guy with the unique nu-retro hybrid title, cuz it's cool to evangelize obscure games" juice.


your snippiness will not make the game a more memorable experience.


But it does make your negativity rather forgetful.


your comeback doesn't make me impressed.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved Uplink.

And I played Darwinia for three minutes and got bored.
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dark steve
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I only played the demo which the developer lovingly provided for me, and I hate the damn game. There's little to no player feedback, it's extremely vague as to how to go about what you have to accomplish, and the mouse control is less than optimal for targeting to the point where combat feels kind of random. This is not acceptable when you can spend 30 minutes playing a mission only to discover you screwed it up beyond repair halfway through. We should have been done with crap like that years ago when sierra stopped making adventure games. HEY! Let's release a game that combines the mousework of lemmings with the precision of cannon fodder!
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disneyland
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, you hate the game. That's awesome.

What other games did you hate in the last year?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You started it, chuckles.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It evoked discussion, at least. I suppose that's ok.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not from me.

Outside of these two lines.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We knew that before you said it, though.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, outside of those two lines.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I guess the question to ask ourselves is whether it's more important to envoke discussion or meaningful discussion. BURN!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
[is] more important to envoke discussion or meaningful discussion.

Bah, either is good. Not everythread needs to be worthy of the scientific journal.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i concur, with 64.7% certainty.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2005 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to remember to buy this one.

I played the demo for hours straight, it had me in a kind of drunken trance-state which a game hasn't done for me in many months.

Its very absorbing, I find.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add to this...

I find it notable that both Uplink and Darwina cast the players themselves as the protagonists.

I mean its kind of eerie when you think about it, the simulation you're playing involves you as the main actor, not projection on another character. Of course there's a very strong element of fantasy, like I may play Uplink but I'm not a world class hacker, and Darwinia rests on the existance of its fictional world. Still, it nicely does away with the usual absurdity of usual strategy game interfaces by making your role clear: you're a person in front of a computer with a mouse in your hand ordering these units around.

Its an interesting concept anyway, I can't think of that many games that use it. Plus, it provides a tidy excuse for why the player is a detatched omniscient force who can instantly communicate with all his underlings.

Plus, the engineers look like recognizers.

POSTSCRIPT: I've only played the demo, but I found it very very easy compared to other strategy games. I mean you pretty much just click at enemies to kill them, there's very little maneuvering involved.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's one of the nifty things about uplink. i've heard that some people, on first playing the game, were compelled to check if they were really online. i like this, though i think disbelief is far easier for the player to suspend in uplink (than darwinia), given the way the game is framed.

i havn't played the full darwinia, so i don't know if the "emails from the creator" in the demo/tutorial keep up at all throughout the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How positively WESTERN of it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was WAITING for that!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't.

What?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't stand the tension.

Quick version is Eastern Design - You play a role, Western Design - You play yourself.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes sense.

It means there's an awful lot of games that use 'Eastern' design elements though.

I mean, I wouldn't even say that the majority of Western games have you playing yourself. I guess you could say the Westernest ones do.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's what the pongism grid says, and on this I agree with it. Think about the glut of FPS games and empire-style strategy titles western studios make. Which is not to say that there hasn't always been a lot of cross pollination.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but strategy war-games are pretty much a PC/niche genre now, and FPS almost always have you playing a specific character in a specific plotline.

Besides which, the main gaming model which originated in the West (ie: the arcade tradition) began with, and continued to use, an avatar for the player character.

The "Western" ideal you speak of evolved mostly seperately, coming from table-top strategy and role-playing games when computers were completely in the domain of nerds.

The only place this dialectic really holds up is in regards to RPGs.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the explicitly-stated protagonist thing in FPSs isn't as prevalent as you think. Did you character even have a name in Wolfenstien? Doom? System Shock? Even being Gordon Freeman in Half Life, he's completely without his own persona. I mean, you know your occupation and what you're doing there, but your character's soul is empty, so to speak.

And both "4E" and RTS games have always been quite strong, it's been more a question of interface that keeps them on a computer screen, I think. Those Sim games count too, and they sure aren't hurting for sales.

I'm not saying these things are hard and fast, but that there's a definite, noticeable slant.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dark steve wrote:
Did you character even have a name in Wolfenstien? Doom? System Shock?


B.J. Blasckowitz. Flynn Taggert. No idea. I never played System Shock. I regret that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHY DO YOU KNOW THAT?

You're killing me, smalls.

My point was, unless you read COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT FLAVOR TEXT IN THE MANUAL JUST TO HURT ME BECAUSE AS A CHILD YOU HAD NO FRIENDS these characters all embody a 'blank slate.'
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are an American POW, escape prison, shoot nazis! I think its rather the action-oriented element of these games that preempts the character's role rather than a particular design philosophy. I'd speak further if I could think of any examples of Japanese FPSs at all.

And its not like the other Western action games, platformers, and what-not tried for a no-character setting. Many of them were bland, but that's another story alltogether.

A more valid thing to say I think, would be that the West has been more interested in simulation games. I like to think its a left-over from the rational and objective push of the enlightenment, but that's far-fetched and overly theoretical.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dark steve wrote:
WHY DO YOU KNOW THAT?


Because it's what I do.

dark steve wrote:
My point was, unless you read COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT FLAVOR TEXT IN THE MANUAL JUST TO HURT ME BECAUSE AS A CHILD YOU HAD NO FRIENDS these characters all embody a 'blank slate.'


I'm not trying to disprove your point, because I agree with you in a way, I'm just sayin'. Is all. Besides, back in those days games on floppy discs didn't even come with manuals, unless you were rich or something. Though I do recall buying a copy of Doom II that came with a full book manual complete maps and everything. It was nice.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

which is part of the point. you're experiening their little version of life in real time.

it's actually the biggest problem in HL2 - it comes so close to truly imparting the flavor of a totalitarian alien megastate in the last throes of digestion, but how do you make a player feel horror and terror without tossing things through the window?

i'm playing doom 3 and far cry now. they're even less useful in this regard. HL2 comes close enough to feel badly about.

best game to never be made: an FPS that puts you in the role of an interrogator in a generic prison camp type environment. a selection of atrocities from some elizabethan gaol to gitmo, so as to keep the political side fresh. how would you simulate depravity then, the necessary harshness and horror that's your entire reason for being in the game in the first place? there's no "i'm going to be the good guy" ending because there's no good guy here to play. there's no way out except to turn the box off.

then, we'd have a game worth hating. jack thompson would have himself a field day, if someone ever made it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the last constructive thing I'm going to be able to muster on this

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it.

You just, wouldn't buy it if you wanted to play a good guy though.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2005 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

b.j. blasckowitz : wolfenstein :: shinra : ikaruga
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