The Gamer's Quarter

[Lestrade]

I don't have any games "on the go" right now and was wondering if there was anything I might want to play. This lead me to one of those quick, inevitable mental checklists of types of games that might interest me. One thing I noticed was that I really prefer games with some kind of world — i.e., some kind of persistent map (as in Silent Hill, Zelda, etc.) as opposed to ones that are broken up into levels (2D platformers are good examples).

To digress: I think this is one of the major reasons I don't enjoy Silent Hill 4 that much. My favourite part of the first two games (and to a very lesser extent, the third) was the town itself — or rather, the ability to explore the town. There are places that give you information that further's the game's backstory, but isn't necessary for completion of the game. There are places that just exist ("There was a HOLE here, but now it's gone") almost solely to intrigue. Part of that claustrophobic feeling one gets when first encountering the school in the the first game stems from the fact that you know there's a (somewhat) sater world outside the one you're in, but you can't get to it.

In many games that employ a world area (and I don't really think field maps in RPGs count), you get to see features and paths change as you advance through the game. You can revisit old friends, or the crumbling remains of a previous encounter. There's a greater sense of history, of attachment, I find, when you have context for your actions.

Maybe this is because I like exploring. I enjoy finding remnants of previous visitors or knowing that very few people have seen a particular place. Once, back in the country, shortly after the Blair Witch film was released, a friend took me to this very old, very dilapidated house on his father's property. It was almost a stereotypical horror-movie house: set on a hill, at dusk it left an imposing sillhouette that begged to be explored while at the same time warning you to just keep walking past it.

Entering the house during the day was still a potent moment. The house looked like there had been fires within it. There was nonsensical writing on the walls —  some of it very high, where one would have to really exert some effort to reach. There were collections of animal bones hanging from the ceiling, tied to strings. Dirt and old furniture, and those weird burn marks, were everywhere. The storage shed was in a similar condition, except with more indication of fires being lit.

It was a very, very spooky house. (My friend at one point took his girlfriend to this house, locked her in a room, and then ran around the rest of the place screaming and making noise. They had just watch The Blair Witch a few weeks ago, and I'm pretty sure he scarred her for life. He is the best kind of asshole sometimes. :-) )

The point of all this is simple; I will always remember that house because in a simple kind of way, my friend and I "found" it. Just like how I always remember certain bits in Ocarina of Time, because I took the time to poke around and "discover" them. It's not like finding a hidden mushroom block in Mario; it's the idea of being able to jump into a game and point out "the sights" to a friend. There's where I entered a dungeon. If you go behind those trees there's a little forest you can explore. You get the picture.

Thoughts?

[Shapermc]

Have you played the more recent Castlevanias? Symphony of the Night and all 3 GBA games? The reason I ask is because this is what they all are. Covered with a veil of progress you explore a castle that has "spooky" things in it. Exploration is crutial to these games. After I beat Harmony I went back and got the full 200% (well... ok, almost I got 199.8%). In SotN you cannot beat the game unless your exploation skills are pretty good. In Aria of Sorrow the game is centric of the entrance to the Castle so you will frequently find yourself looping through out it. In Circle of the Moon card locations are area specific. You will also find yourself hunting out and exploring all the local fauna... or just creature spotting to finish your "collections." It still bugs me that I never saw certain creatures in Harmony of Dissonence. I hope in my next play through to find them all.

Also, the NES Rygar allows you to do this. As a kid I never beat the game because I was just going around doing things like an adventurer, not necessarily to complete something.

I say for Symphony of the Night if you have not, followed by Harmony and Aria. Circle of the Moon is ok, but the others are better.

[Lestrade]

I've been through Symphony a couple of times, yes. I haven't played any of the GBA games, though. Somehow I can never muster the interest. They always seem like lesser versions of the Playstation game. The upcoming DS Castlevania doesn't seem that way, though.

Maybe I will pick up the later two GBA titles sometime, though.

For the record, though, I didn't relate that story for the spooky factor, but rather because of the feeling of exploration.

[Shapermc]

For just mild interest I recommend Harmony over Aria. It is a very slick and fast game. Exploration is an emphasis over Aria too as some of the areas are pretty empty of life. Aria is more about collecting and exploring over just exploring.

You know... Morrowind may just be the perfect game for you. Not only can you return to everywhere, but in many cases you will need to return. You can also walk any and everywhere. Millions of little hidden areas exist. In fact the best part of the game is just wandering the country side.

Is that an island off in the distance? Lets swim over there and find out. OH! Did I see a sunken ship down there while swiming? I should explore that on the way. Why it is a sunke ship, with many treasures. Oh, this island way out here hold the ruins of a temple. Nice.

That was most of my gaming experiences. I never finished the main quest (hell, I barely played the main quest) as most of my time was spent exploring and being distracted.

[ApM]

I have a miserable sense of direction in general; I barely know my way around the city I live in. Exploring in videogames always makes me seriously anxious. I.. get over it, once it's over and done with and I have a vague map in my head of where everything is. It just takes a mental push, every time.

GTA never did this to me, but I think that's only because I don't ever have to find my way back. I never learned the city layouts of any of GTAs.

[Mr. Mechanical]

[dessgeega]

now i want to track down a copy of tomba.
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[Mr. Mechanical]

I also feel the need to mention Shadow of the Colossus in this thread as it seems to be all about exploration. A single grand, majestically huge overworld with sixteen or so giant colossi that need to be found and taken down. Each colossi a stage unto itself that must be traversed like a mountain; a moving, breathing videogame level. I can see myself easily losing a ton of time just moving through the world and seeing the sights.

[Lestrade]

[Shapermc]

[SuperWes]

[Mr. Mechanical]

What the heck is tomba?

[SuperWes]

[aderack]

Sonic Adventure?
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[Mr. Mechanical]

[dessgeega]

tomba has this intricately intertwined world where you might sail across a sea to a house on a cliff, and then leave to find that house was a seemingly-insignificant piece of the background scenery of an earlier area. i'd say more about it, but i havn't played it in years.

which is why i need to track it down.
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[Mister Toups]

Tomba as in "I am Tomba!"?
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

[JasonMoses]

Tomba captured that mysterious feeling of old game overworlds like Rygar while still maintaining a modern narrative of sorts better than any game I've played in years. I still haven't played Tomba 2 though. Is it better or worse than the original?

[dark steve]

I say better. But someone's gonna disagree with me and say it was too easy compared to the first one.

[SuperWes]

[Shapermc]

[Lackey]

This reminds me of the secret places discussion on Insert Credit.

Who maintained the importance of being able to see other areas and how you'd progressed in a game? I thought that was an interesting point.

I enjoy overworlds, they give a better sense of involvement. I have a copy of Mercenaries, and I'm finding it difficult to actually do the missions. I'd much rather just cruise around the countryside. Interesting to note that outposts you destroy stay destroyed though. Sometimes you'll find a fortification way up in the mountains and completely erradicate it because its in your way. Unfortunately this extends only so far. You will pass the same battles multiple times, for example, and if you leave vehicles outside they'll dissappear if you wander off. That was dissapointing.

Still, this game would be absolutely pointless if it had set 'levels' and missions rather than the overworld format. There are these sort of boss battles in specific locations and they're alarmingly like run of the mill third person shooter stages.

[JasonMoses]

[SuperWes]

[dessgeega]

[Mister Toups]

[Lackey]

To be honest I haven't been interested enough in San Andreas to look into it, but the way my friend seemed to talk about it suggested that there were vast amounts of countryside and areas to explore between towns. He could be completely off base though, he usually is.

I should borrow that.
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| Little bird fighting against a bat sect game |

[Mr. Mechanical]

Yeah, there's tons of countryside and such between towns and cities in San Andreas, though not much of it has anything there worth exploring. That sounds negative but it really isn't. Occasionally you'll see the odd "ghost car", a beat up car that not even the Pay N' Spray will fix, or you'll come across someone's vehicle or shack/house. It's never really boring to wander the countryside though because just looking out across the landscape seems to suggest that there is something there worth exploring, and usually if you do decide to explore, you might find something like a plane or a special weapon or something. Sometimes all you'll find is an untold story in the form of someone's car or beat up property. There are even rumors that something lurks in the forest at the base of the mountain at night.

I like it. The immensity of it all. Being able to travel to that distant point on the horizon, coming across an unexpected town, just traveling for the sake of traveling. I never played the original 2D games for the missions, so I've enjoyed how they've evolved through the series. Now they have a specific story to tell within a specific context as part of a greater existing universe. I don't always like how rigid the mission structure can be, but overall I enjoy the focus the narrative has gotten as the series has progressed. It's becoming increasingly "Eastern" in that I'm really playing the role of Carl Johnson rather than simply using him as an avatar to act out my own will in the game world. I think that's kind of interesting.

[Lackey]

I guess that's what I'm missing. I'm mildly interested in the game, but this is one of those few instances where the metaphor is a turn-off for me. I just haven't got into the GTA series because I don't have much interest in playing a gangster.
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| Little bird fighting against a bat sect game |

[JasonMoses]

[TOLLMASTER]

Just when I think my PS1 collection is complete, you guys have to make me want another. Le sigh.

Let's talk about Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion. Super Metroid, as you know, had a giant world to explore. If was often necessary to go from one area, through another, and then through yet another to get to new areas as your abilities increased. Now, Metroid Fusion comes along and centralizes and the whole thing. Each sector (or area) is linked to the same hallway. This saves you time that would normally have you doing nothing but backtracking earlier ground, leaving the experience fresher. Or so it would seem.

The fact is, Metroid Fusion lost something that Super Metroid had. You could argue either way that one or the other was the better game, but Metroid Fusion's "improvement" was both a step forward and a step back. You never got the godlike feeling of visiting a once-hard area, or rechecking every nook and crany to see if your new abilities would work anywhere. Metroid Fusion felt "empty" because of this, even though it was a faster, more intense game.

That's my part, anyway.

[dessgeega]

fusion and prime both lack that feeling of "going down" that hip tanaka's soundtrack in the first game illuminated so well: the deeper you went in the planet, the less heroic and more burbling and ominous the music would get.

fusion in particular chose more of a survival horror motif over the dread and isolation of its predeccesors. (metroid 2 in particular is almost oppressively lonely and scary. even if you explore one part of the world at a time.)
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[Shapermc]

I can't even begin to tell everyone how much I don't like Fusion. Also, nothing can capture me like the original Metroid. I am currently playing through Super Metroid... for the first time!

Also, Lestrade, I just thought of this: Survival Kids. GBC.

[Mister Toups]

You're still playing it?
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

[Shapermc]

[Mister Toups]

Well if you never beat it you'll never see the only worthwhile thing the game does.
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

[Shapermc]

[Mister Toups]

I thought that's what you meant by "hurricane".
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

[SuperWes]

[Mister Toups]

Oh shit. How can this thread not make reference to Megaman Legends?
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

[Shapermc]

[Mister Toups]

What's an oppertunity?
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

[player 2]

Toups, why aren't you posting at Insomnia?
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Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

[Mister Toups]

Because it's a forum run by a person who annoys me, populated by people who often annoy me, and with very little substantial discussion going on there. Although it's not as bad as Don't Press Start, it's also not as entertaining.
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

[player 2]

Well, at least you're honest. You can continue to post as if you were on IC again*.

(*that's supposed to be a scathing remark against you and your inability to move on**)

(**that's supposed to be sarcastic***)

(***sort of.)
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Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

[SuperWes]

I gave you guys a link on the front page even though I will never sign up for your forums. Who loves you?

-Wes
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[player 2]

[Mr. Mechanical]

I think he's talking about our frontpage.

[nICO]

[dessgeega]

i assumed he was referring to an ending sequence that you play through. metroid 3's not the only game that's done it, or even the first by far, but it's probably one of the best.
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