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LET'S MAKE SHOOTING GAME (dezaemon thread)

 
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:38 am    Post subject: LET'S MAKE SHOOTING GAME (dezaemon thread) Reply with quote

dezaemon is a software series from athena that lets users create and play shooting games. there are versions, as far as i know, for the famicom, super famicom, saturn, playstation and nintendo 64.

i have been messing with the superfami version. it's pretty neat. the superfami version allows for final soldier-like vertical shooters. it's very limited - you can't change the rules of the game (the weapon system, the order in which power-ups appear) but you can make your own sprites, music, and level design. although there's no real scripting, you can do a surprising amount of things through clever use of the options available, including parallax scrolling and moving background objects. the sample game, "daioh gale" - which you're free to mess around with in the editor - demonstrates how to do a lot of this stuff.

the editing interface, which is almost completely free of text, is remarkably easy to figure out. the icons are all fairly self-explanatory, and there are only two buttons - some tasks might be less tedious if more were used, but only two means it's pretty easy to figure out how to interact with any menu.

you can see my work in progress with this sram file, which should run with a dezaemon rom and emulator. there are three stages in there, which illustrate the development of a single theme. the third is the most polished. you can play a stage by clicking "edit", then the middle button (with the tools). pick a stage (probably 3) and click start. then select the button with the superfami pad on it, and click start again. or you can also play the three stages as a "game" by pressing start at the title screen. (sometimes some objects are missing in the second stage or - less often - the third, because i just tried to put too many objects on the screen. bah.)

some explanation about the weapons: red is the default weapon, a spread "vulcan". green is a homing weapon. blue is a forward shot with homing projectiles. the icon with all three colors will power up your existing weapon. there's also a speed-up, shield and bomb. by default, Y shoots and B bombs, but you can change that on the options screen.

i bought a copy of superfami cartridge today (with instructions!) for a couple bucks, but i'm even more curious about the saturn version. the saturn version seems a lot more robust, allowing for stuff like this single-screen tank game and this horizontal-scrolling reinvention of bomberman. has anyone used it? i wonder if the interface is as straightforward. if it's not rare or expensive i'll try to get my hands on a copy.

also neat is that dezaemon kids! for the playstation comes with one hundred user-created games, and might be worth picking up just for that.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dess, have you played Summer Carnival '92 - Recca? It's based off the Dezaemon engine and really pushes the limits of the Famicom. I'm not sure I'd call it a good game, but it's worth playing (and admiring).
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a translation for the game out there somewhere though I don't know how complete it is. That said, I don't have any experience with SNES Dezaemon. I've done some rooting around with NES Dezaemon but only sprites, no stages or music.

Oh, and Recca is hell of sweet though brutally fast. I just wish it was on a more powerful system, because the flickering really gets to me.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

recca is amazing. i had no idea it was based on famicom dezaemon, but then i havn't really touched famicom dezaemon.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recca and Dezaemon were both developed by KID, but I've never read anything concrete indicating that Recca was "based" on Dezaemon. What would that even entail? How much code reuse would be necessary for a game to be totally new as opposed to "based" on a previous game? etc.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:29 am    Post subject: Re: LET'S MAKE SHOOTING GAME (dezaemon thread) Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
the editing interface, which is almost completely free of text, is remarkably easy to figure out. the icons are all fairly self-explanatory, and there are only two buttons - some tasks might be less tedious if more were used, but only two means it's pretty easy to figure out how to interact with any menu.


you realize that Dezaemon SFC supports the SNES mouse, right? It certainly makes things quite a bit easier.

I was actually thinking about making a topic (on SB) about the music editor, maybe make a no-stress competition to compose a few freestyle songs, or a collaborative project to create a fake videogame soundtrack. But at that point it was kind of like "why not just use a regular tracker?", and so on.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so i finished my dezaemon game. it's called, for lack of a better title, pod. terrible graphics by me (except for the explosions), music by jason moses!





download the dezaemon rom (may athena forgive me) and my sram. these should run in any snes emulator, but possibly only if it's snes9x.

it's a six stage game with bullets, power-ups and bosses. i won't guarantee it's glitch-free, and i won't guarantee it's balanced, but it is playable from start to finish. NOTE: sometimes, for me at least, the graphics for player bombs and boss lasers don't appear in the right places. the stage four boss (pictured above) periodically fires a laser. if the boss flashes blue, you want to not be directly in front of it - in that blue area in the screenshot.



playing the game: at the dezaemon title screen, press start (which key or button this is depends on your emulator configuration) to go to the pod title. by default, Y shoots and B bombs, though you can change this on the options menu under "etc."

power-ups are, from left to right, red spread shot, green homing shot, blue straight shot with homing projectiles, power up (increases the power of whichever weapon you're currently using), bomb, speed up, shield.

blast off and strike the homebrew empire! i think i'm going to get a copy of dezaemon 2 for the saturn. there are plenty of restrictions i chafed against working on this game, and i think i'd really like to make a horizontal shooter.

EDITED for SOUNDTRACK!
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is that your copy or just A copy?
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is my very own.
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JasonMoses
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dess, this is great!

I actually made a couple of tunes in the music editor. It's... about as clunky as I expected! I'll upload my copy of the .srm with new music once I decide that I never want to use the Dezaemon music editor ever again. Should be pretty soon.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winged Assassins (1984) wrote:

Oh, and Recca is hell of sweet though brutally fast. I just wish it was on a more powerful system, because the flickering really gets to me.


try running recca on nestopia with the sprite limit turned off.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks deets! for a first effort i'm pretty satisfied with how it came out.

thanks to actually having the instructions now, i found out that what your bomb does is decided by which of the three weapons you're using. i was dimly aware that there were different bombs, but i wasn't sure what caused one effect or the other. so now i know. good for me.

i just ordered a copy of dezaemon 2, the saturn version. i'm probably going to try and make either a horizontal or single-screen shooter. i will document my efforts in this thread. anticipate it!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
single-screen shooter.

Space Bomber-alike?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is really beautiful. The game itself is uninteresting, and actually made me feel kinda spoiled for having all those danmaku games with all their fancy bullet patterns, but those graphics are really great!
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's even more impressive if you're familiar with how dezaemon works. though dezaemon plus has a few more features than the original, stuff like that final boss shouldn't be possible in dezaemon, yet i can see how the author did it, and it's brilliant.

someone else made a kind of horizontal shooter in dezaemon plus, which is pretty clever.

here are a couple videos of horizontal shooters made in dezaemon 2, by the author of the go go tank game i linked above, which should give an impression of the sort of thing the saturn version can do. i am anxiously awaiting the arrival of my copy!
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



there's a polygon editor in this thing. shit is crazy.

game design commences!
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so now that i've played around with dezaemon 2:

the gui is less pretty than the original's - gunmetal windows on one of fifteen-or-so wallpapers. i'm using the one that says "for lovely developers".

it comes with three sample games: biometal gust, a recreation of the snes game biometal and the obligatory horizontal model; an original vertical shooter with butterflies i havn't really poked around in yet; and daioh p, a flat-color polygon version of the sample game from the original dezaemon (with cute stuff like "A HUGE BOSS IS APPROACHING" screens).

the interface and options are similiar to the original, but there are a lot of very neat additions. such as: the user can now edit the weapons and control what power-ups the player receives; there are secondary weapons, including various kinds of options, and r-type-like charged attacks; two player games can be made, and the two players can have different abilities; bosses can now have multiple phases, and can have "parts" which are edited seperately; there are sprite-scaling, rotation, and transparency options; i can now put enough enemies onscreen to create real environmental hazards; stages can be set to play like movies, for use in creating cutscenes and staff roll sequences; enemies can transform into other enemies when destroyed; holding down one of the shoulder buttons will move the cursor faster when sprite editing (this is a big deal to me, okay).

there's also that polygon editor, which is pretty impressive. the idea is that you have a small, poser-like set to position, scale and rotate shapes in, then take a 2d "snapshot" to use in your game. daioh p was made with it, and it seems like a quick way to bang out a bunch of sprites if you're no good with graphics like i am.

you need a saturn back-up cartridge to save a project, though. i can play the sample games, open them up in the editor and tinker with them, but to actually work on a long-term project i'd need a back-up cart stuck in my saturn. are these rare?
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

look at this cool stuff, though. keep the buffalo from reaching the right side of the screen!

and this is technically impressive though not very useful.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:

you need a saturn back-up cartridge to save a project, though. i can play the sample games, open them up in the editor and tinker with them, but to actually work on a long-term project i'd need a back-up cart stuck in my saturn. are these rare?

Well, here's one for sale.

I've almost finished re-scoring Pod, by the way!
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deets, you're my favorite.

ALSO, how clever is this?

ALSO: someone remade bump 'n jump on this thing. and then there's wizardry the shooting, a pretty spartan game with monster sprites from wizardry and amazing bullet patterns.

i am basically going nuts because i can't create without that back-up cart.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so deza2 has some neat easter eggs: if you let the attract mode loop you'll eventually start seeing demos of games that aren't the sample games, and if you press start while one of those demos is playing the game will be saved to your user game so you can play and edit it.

one of them reminds me of gradius and is super hard. it has flying saturns that shoot cds. the other one has cute sprites that look like they're out of a snes game.

in the 3d editor i put bright pink robot legs on a pagoda and felt accomplished.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I'm done fighting with the Dezaemon music editor for now.

Pod (with new music).
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i can't get the music to come up for some reason.

it just loads the game with the original daioh gale music :(
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you extract it into a separate directory and load it from there?
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yup. still doesn't work :(

on the bright side, though, i won that backup cart.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I figured out the problem - I totally misunderstood the way SNES9X handles sram saving.

Should work now! There's no ending theme at the moment but I'll probably go back and make one over the weekend. Enjoy (unless it doesn't work in which case oops).
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it worked! and it is great.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my saturn backup cart arrived today! hooray! i have my first project in mind, so i will probably commence working on it tonight!
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have never had to blow into a memory card to get it to work before. this is a new experience for me.

but yay! my new project is underway. more details when there are more details. i also saved one of the secret games to my cart so i don't have to sit through attract mode every time i want to play it.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so, harmony bot destroys everything is a simple horizontal shooting game about an apathetic robot with lots of firepower who annihilates hordes of defenseless enemies. it's inspired a great deal by dotechin. i am making most of the sprites in the 3d editor, because it's really easy to bang out graphics that look like they have substance pretty quickly. more as it comes!
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stage one of harmony bot destroys everything.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so now there's a utility that lets you distribute dezaemon 2 games across the internet, and over a hundred games are available for play. you (by which i mean i) need a modded saturn, though. how exactly does one go about modding a saturn?
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dezaemon Plus and Dezaemon Kids are now available for purchase on the Japanese PSN store for ~$7 each. They can be played on PS3 or PSP, and it's easy to transfer saves from those systems to a computer.
So I'm trying to get a game sharing community going... I emailed you about it, Dessgeega.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Eastx
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Harvey. Nice to meetcha. ~ ~
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eastx wrote:
So I'm trying to get a game sharing community going... I emailed you about it, Dessgeega.


i did not get this email! try sending me a pm.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
eastx wrote:
So I'm trying to get a game sharing community going... I emailed you about it, Dessgeega.


i did not get this email! try sending me a pm.


why are you sending Emails in private?
open the community to all who want to join
it'll be much more fun Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I PMed her and she never responded. I wanted to get a little Dezaemon community site going but the interest just doesn't seem to be there.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

not a zombie wrote:
Dess, have you played Summer Carnival '92 - Recca? It's based off the Dezaemon engine and really pushes the limits of the Famicom. I'm not sure I'd call it a good game, but it's worth playing (and admiring).


recca is mindblowing... do you have more info about it? i'm curious about the origin of that game.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spambot reminded me of this thread.

I wanted to mention for anyone that was interested in this game that the Japanese Playstation version is available via PSN on the PS3/PSP in America for $6. It seems like an odd offering since it's likely very Japanese heavy, but it's there.

-Wes
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