The Gamer's Quarter

[parkbench]

Secret of Evermore Is Uh...



SO for whatever reason I started playing this game recently. Kind of strange--despite all that I'd heard, and despite the fact that I've never played Secret of Mana for more than an hour, I just had an urge and I indulged. So what follows are just ruminations on different aspects of the game.

The first thing that struck me was the intro.

In the sequence, you walk out of a movie theater and your dog begins to run away from you. In a scripted sequence, you begin to chase him, and as you chase him, you unwittingly walk into a time machine thing and begin your adventure.



The thing that struck me was that it was scripted--modern post-Half-Life videogame common sense would say that the player should do these things themselves. If it were made recently, you might walk out of the movie theater and then be prompted to chase after your dog yourself--even though the conclusion is linear and determined, it does a lot to make the player feel like they have a hand in doing things.

So it's interesting to just see how the game shows its age in that sense. I was actually presently surprised in later sequences when you are given control where it might have been scripted: for example, in the second world, the main character (parkbench in my version, of course) loses his dog, and begins to wonder about it--at which you are transferred control to your dog which is now in an entirely new form. Though the sequence as the dog is short, it's important in terms of interactivity--the sequence easily could have been scripted, but taking control of the dog gives you this sudden sense of wonder and surprise.

Another sequence I was pleasantly surprised about was the market sequence--the player walks into "Nobilia" and finds a bustling bazaar there, where all sorts of merchants are hocking all sorts of goods. As you talk to them they tell you that "in 15 minutes" there will be a gathering in the city square. So you quickly realise that you have exactly 15 minutes to go on a super-fast, microscopic version of a fetch/trade quest, which is actually kind of fun and nerve-wracking. He'll trade rice for spices, she'll trade tapestries for pottery jars and rice, etc. etc. until you are able to get the items needed to trade with the charm merchants who are selling rare items. I wasn't able to get some of these rare items because I used up much of the 15 minutes trying to figure out precisely what was so great about the market, but regardless--some of the merchants who have what you need to trade up to the good stuff are in secluded areas or hard to reach spots that need a little maneuvering to get into, so it's a quick little puzzle that you have to solve. A nice sequence to throw in there.

Let's see...aesthetically, the music is surprisingly immersive at times, and other times there is simply ambient noise--water, birds--to accompany a screen (in a random review I read this was one of the main complaints, but I don't see a problem with ambiance). The graphics are pretty advanced, I have to say. The environments are pretty lush and the sprites are given a good mount of attention to detail--so there's amusing animations to go along with most actions.



The shortcoming, however, is the bosses. God, the bosses. Besides the fact that they're designed poorly as boss challenges, they are always so goddamned ugly. Definitely made by Square USA and no one else. Let's take a look:







Who the fuck designed these things? It's surprising considering how reasonable and actually quite attractive the rest of the graphics in the game are. But anyway.

That finally brings me to the gameplay--the most important part of course. I have to say that so far I'm able to tolerate it. The alchemy system is an interesting permutation on the whole SoM formula (which, by the way, Square USA denies any connection with, according to this--but even if it's not a sequel, the fucking battle system is exactly the same! how can they claim that they built it from the ground up?).

Battles are alright, except for boss battles. I guess I'm vastly underleveled (according to the GameFAQs suggestions, at least), but whenever I fight the bosses it's a grueling exercise that eventually involves me quick-saving/loading with almost no health to do pathetic amounts of damage to a very large-healthed boss. But I'm not willing to grind to get the levels up--fighting is definitely more tolerable than in a game with random encounters, but I don't want to just hang around swiping at shit all the time.

I like that each world has its own system of money, which forces you to kind of obsolete your current stash or "exchange" it.

The game is also packed with secrets and devious little ways to get new alchemical formulas, which of course, I have gotten almost none of (I just can't bring myself to care).

Otherwise, the humor is silly and earnest enough in most places to keep me coming me back. I know and I've been told I will probably get sick of it after awhile (since it is an entirely mediocre game), but right now I'm willing to humor it. This game is weird and I don't know how good it is. I mean it's Square USA. But I still feel like there's something there. I mean, it's just. It's uh...


_________________
ich bin aber eine mensch maschine

[Shapermc]

I've had this game sitting in a pile of game I meant to review in my gsw collumn which ended like... over a year ago now I think. Anyways, I couldn't really get far in. I had a very similar situation happen to me when the intro started and it took me out. I just... well, I couldn't deal with the game. It seemed too different from what I was looking for. Either way, yeah, everything in this game is (artistically) designed terribly, which didn't help it's case. More power too you for keeping up the effort.
_________________
“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

[sediment]

I made it through the first world, and then immediately lost interest.
_________________

[dessgeega]

this game always seemed more interesting that most squaresoft fare. though i also havn't played it.
_________________

[dhex]

does that dog in the above picture have wings?
_________________

[Shapermc]

[parkbench]

They're paws.

I think I agree with dess to some extent--for some reason as of late I've been getting interested in what Square USA was up to in the 90s and so I've been trying to check out stuff they've done.

The de facto standard quip about SoE and Final Fantasy: Mystic Quest (the only other game they seem to have made? anyone else correct me on this?) seems to be that they--tragically--suck. I'm not necessarily going to deny this but I'm looking for something of a reappraisal of their games. As horrible as the execution sometimes came off to be, they clearly had a specific approach to game design that at least so far seems to me like it was in contrast with the approach of their parent company. In many ways SoE seems to be trying to reach out to the player more than some of the more didactic JRPGs out there. Maybe that's just a vague general impression--but Mystic Quest is almost certainly this way, as it was designed to be simple and accessible (for which it is the butt of many jokes, as I said above). And so I'm starting to wonder: is this really a bad thing? Is it possible that an adult (or at least pseudo-adult) can derive enjoyment from a game supposedly so un-hardcore?

So I'll keep trodding through and pseudo-"Let's Play"-ing this to see what comes up.
_________________
ich bin aber eine mensch maschine

[Ethoscapade]

mystic quest was the first RPG i ever played, in the second grade; i consider myself pretty fortunate on that count. really fucking good block puzzles, iirc.

tim rogers always liked to say of SoE that it's just really interesting as a vehicle for ted woolsey (head localization guy from back in the day) to prove he could make sakaguchi's games better than sakaguchi. it certainly looks and acts idealistic enough, i'll give it that..

[daphaknee]

is that first picture like a power-up or something or a special attack or what

[Winged Assassins (1984)]

Is that first picture is like Cho Aniki with pompadours?
_________________

[D-A-I-S]

[B coma]

I dunno, I've always really enjoyed the game's visuals, even the boss sprites - especially that first bug guy with the heart in the rib cage. It's probably appropriate that it and the swamp monster look like it came out of gritty western comic book, as opposed to a slick-looking manga, especially when you consider the main character's background and the 50's sci-fi aspect. Also, this game really does have great, great sound - it's often murky in the same way the visuals are, which lends itself well to the atmosphere.

I recall playing this game as a teenager, becoming deliriously ill with some mild virus (as I often did as a teen) and being unable to make it through to the end before giving it back to a friend. Since then I have played the beginning of this game... three times? So I don't know if I'll ever see the end.

[dessgeega]

SPEAKING OF INTERESTING JRPGS FROM SQUARESOFT.
_________________

[daphaknee]

i heard that since the world ends with you didnt do too welll that squeenix is only allowed to make mainstream rpgs now? what does that mean? that there will only be final fantasies and dragon quests from now on? i want to see another game like this one

[Swimmy]

Strange, I got the urge to play through this again recently too.

The Nobilia trading sequence isn't as special as you think. After the 15 minutes are up, the shop owners do disappear, but they reappear after you've gone through the short storyline sequence afterward. Also, the best way to get through it is to sit in a whirlpool at the edge of town for a long time--twice. It gives you a lot of free rice and spice. It's annoying that you can't check how much you have left.

This is one of those games you should appreciate for its glitches. When you get the bazooka, they kind of forget to make the ammo deplete, so you can become near-invincible by the end. At one point you can collect a huge number of call beads if you hammer the button quickly enough--they didn't program it properly to switch off after you pick it up until the text disappears.

Be sure to read through this 4-page GameFAQs thread (the only GameFAQs thread worth reading ever?) in which one of the game's programmers (posting as "ItsBillsFault") answers a lot of general questions about it. It's great getting this kind of information to begin with, but it's particularly interesting since this game is such a glitchy failure.
_________________

"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin

[parkbench]

Ah, yeah Swimmy. I noticed that about the market sequence once I got past it. That's kind of disappointing. It kind of seems like a lost opportunity there. But then again, I guess they have to be conciliatory. Either way, I hope I can find more sequences like it in the rest of the game.

On secret whirlpools and such: normally I don't care much, but looking over the FAQ here and there (mostly to check boss HPs--shit, sometimes I'm wailing away at them so long I can't tell if I'm in for a long haul or not), it seems like it really is stuffed with little things to find. Which is great in one sense and annoying in another. Maybe I just don't like console RPGs as much anymore, but I just don't want to have to bother to talk to the guy in the hidden cave in the secret building to get the ancient chicken egg or whatever the fuck.

I'm happy when I stumble upon secrets sometimes, to be sure--in Nobilia, I was dicking around a warehouse, and the kind of obvious hint of a bug crawling behind some boxes (a bug which normally would have been an enemy but which I couldn't attack) revealed a surly man who gave me the Atlas spell (which is what you see in the first shot in this thread). All well and good. But like I said, reading the FAQ I realise how many spells I'm missing out on and it's kind of lame. Oh well. Maybe it's me and not the game.

And, Swimmy, I actually linked to that same thread in my first post.
_________________
ich bin aber eine mensch maschine

[Swimmy]

Oh, whoops, didn't bother to follow through your link there.

At the end of the day, it's a pretty bad game. There are plenty of neat secrets, but there are also plenty of bugs. It's possible to ruin your game by landing on the wrong island near the end. It's far too fine a line between poking at the edges of the game for rewards and avoiding the edges of the game for fear of messing something up.

Thankfully, most of the spells are useless. (And some of them can be pretty harmful. Don't you dare use the acid rain spell the second time you fight the ant boss. It knocks you to the back of the room every time it registers a hit on the heart, and each HP depletion will count. Instant doom.) So you shouldn't worry about missing them. On the other hand, the reason you're having to hack at bosses forever is because you're not leveling your spells. Pull up an ingredients guide to find the cheapest place to buy, then max out the ingredients for those spells. Then start spell grinding. Yes, you're really meant to do this, and yes, it makes you pretty much invincible. You only need 2-3 attack spells and your healing spell, in the end, but if they're up in level 7-9 you'll be very powerful. At least until you get the bazooka, which moots everything.

Don't be too tempted to use every new weapon the game gives you. A charged spear is way more useful than a normal sword slash. It's pointless to level them all up since the game throws them at you so quickly, so just go with what works.
_________________

"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin

[bleak]

It shows whatever you've gotten from the trade chain in the marketplace in your bag of key items. I used it extensively to check when I could buy pots five times or just four.
_________________

[bleak]

also god this game is sweet. I absolutely adore it.
_________________

[Ryan - SuperWes' Bane]

I absolutely loved this game. It really grew on me back in the day after I had played SoM to death, and I've played through this game countless times. The Alchemy system rocked, the different worlds were well designed (though the last world felt rushed), and I liked how you could sniff out ingredients with the dog as well.

[Cossix]

It wasn't until I found the internet that I learned that people hated this game and Mystic Quest. When I was a kid I thought they were both pretty great! Secret of Evermore, especially, because it was written so much better than like 99% of the games released around the time.

[Access]

Yeah me too. I really loved this game, and still do. I think people just didnt like it because they thought it was going to be Secret of Evermore 2.

This was Square USA's one and only game they made, quite good for a first attempt if you ask me. I loved the themes in the game quite good.

I found the music brilliant I have one of the rare soundtracks for it. Was Jeremy Soule first game he ever worked on.
_________________

[parkbench]

relevant
_________________
ich bin aber eine mensch maschine

[KinokoFry]

I played this game a few times, a long time ago. I really loved it! It had a very unique feeling to it. It wasn't flawless, and there were for sure some bits that were rather irritating to play through, but those flaws haven't stuck with me.

I remember predominantly just enjoying the atmosphere of the game. It was always kind of stark and lonely, but also very fun to explore. Especially with the addition of being able to find ingredients (?) about the place. It made even areas with no real interaction interesting because there could be something to find -anywhere-.

Anyway, I liked it.

[parkbench]

For most of the game (I'm still nowhere near done with it--I will get back to it sometime) I did not realise that the dog did anything other than attack. I was kicking myself when I found out about the hidden ingredients thing.
_________________
ich bin aber eine mensch maschine