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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:58 pm    Post subject: Comics Thread. Reply with quote

Since the Dan Dare and Time Magazine thread both ended up being general comics discussion, I guess we're in need of a dedicated comics thread, so here one is.

I just finished Cerebus! I only read the first 30 issues, the bit in the middle when he goes to the moon, and the last 5 where he dies. But I still think I have read enough to be qualified to say: CEREBUS SUCKS

Don't read it.

One little interesting thing that turned up when going through the yahoo cerebus group files that were included with the download: Dave Sim's phone number! Ha!

519-576-0610
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elvis.shrugged
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm considering buying the Bone one-volume edition. I read the first two books last year and sorta liked it.

Good idea?
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daphaknee
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow james you missed like
everything so you arent qualified to say anything
cerebus wooo hahaha god so many people hate cerebus its great

im calling dave sim and im going to try to have phonesex with him
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah Bone is awesome, thoroughly recommend it.

Daph what are the good parts of Cerebus because so far It hasn't really been worth my time. I don't think the funny bits are funny, nor do I give a shit about the characters (OH WOW FOGHORN LEGHORN IS A WIZARD). Also the formal experimentation is wanky and indulgent. I am however impressed by and fascinated by the whole enterprise on some level I don't quite understand. I'm still reading the post-mortem letters, interviews and correspondance that came with the zip file, so it's obviously engaging me on some level. Somehow I've found the letters pages and Sim's editorials far more interesting than the comic, for the most part.

Not to say I think the comic is without merit; I think the backgrounds, pacing, shot composition, mis en scene etc. have real moments of beauty. I'm impressed by Dave Sim's playful expressive use of lettering, even though it kind of falls under the wanky indulgence I mentioned earlier. The grand scale of his ambition is admirable, too in terms of the scope and scale of the story. He's like the anti-Charles Schultz, in that they're both god-fearing men who got to draw the same cartoon strip for over a quarter of a century, but man-oh-man what they came out with doing it sure was different.

Right, so seriously around what issue does this comic get good because I'm not going to wade through any more junk to get to it. Thanks
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two funniest volumes are High Society and Guys. You stopped right before High Society got really good.

Jaka's Story is an amazing self contained tragedy. Minds is one of the most inventive books - kind of like Cerebus' trip to the moon, but NOT BORING.

I actually like the last 10 issues of Cerebus, but I had read the previous 290, so they meant more to me.
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Cerebus' death was pretty moving and beautiful, but yeah. I will read high society.
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daphaknee
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay good ebrey said exactly what i was going to say

im re-reading it again, and im in hte middle of women and man the misogyny is just so fucking hilarious
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to see the bit where Cerebus is lining up a bunch of women to be killed and, unbelievably, Sim has made a lot of those women be caricatures of famous lady cartoonists like Julie Doucet! What an ass!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy Bone! I wish I had. Sad

It's one of the best comics ever.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, I just started reading Cerebus and I'm about halfway through the first book. I like it! Though it is slow at times. Also I should point out that this is pretty much the first real comic I've ever read
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL @ the phone number being included!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of us should ring it (I nominate Daphaknee).
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear Junji Ito's Museum of Terror is pretty good.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really? How's the translation?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I like it pretty well.

So does this guy.
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daphaknee
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

seconding museum of terror, and im not even a big ito fan

oh man i forgot to call dave sim last night okay im calling him when christoher gets home from work today, i just read his wikipedia entry and so i have lots of questions

should i buy the SOLO comics?
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daph if you can record / transcribe your phone call I will totally make it part of my LJ comics club on sunday. This will be awesome.

Also ask him what his favorite Japanese comics are!!
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daphaknee
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if that number was posted on the intenret i doubt it'll work or he'll even answer
but i will keep calling until he answers

its just, being a WOMAN i dont think he'll listen to anything i have to say
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, he's been interviewed by women before. Also, you have an atypical and interesting take on things, so it'll be interesting to see what he makes of you. If you're worried he won't agree to an interview say you're from SF2 Magazine. If pressed, it's a new upstart comics and sci-fi magazine for the bay area. SF2 stands for San Francisco Sci Fi!!!!!1

I want to know what his day consists of now he's reitred, was it difficult to readjust his life now his massive workload is over? Also, who are his friends now? Does he think about death, when does he hope to die? What does he want to achieve before that happens? If he could say one thing to the young Dave Sim, just starting Cerebus, what would it be? Will there be a Cerebus computer game? <--- please ask this with all sincerity.

Also, Cerebus has two mouths, one on either side of his head. Does he genuinely think that looks good? It's fucking hideous.
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I just learned he's got a new comic book coming out in the next few months, so you're probably going to want to ask about that. That can be your pretext for phoning. But it also says (in the official press release) he only does interviews by fax, providing keep your interviews to 5 questions, so that's a bit of a worry... his fax is 519.576.0610.

! Wait, that's the same as the phone number I gave above. Hmm.

Shit, who has a fax, let's fax him our bits
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daphaknee
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

he has that website glamourpussy.com too but it wasnt working last time i checked it

i was just going to ask him things i care about, your questions are boring, but im definitely going to ask hima bout guro, and the cerebus game
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HELLO LADIES

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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WAIT, WHAT THE FUCK

Dave Sim is going to be on the Comics Journal website forum live in 4 hours to promote his new comic

Why the fuck is all this happening now?? Right, I'm getting my best men on this

THAT'S YOU DAPHNY

http://www.tcj.com/messboard/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=14e919df0ccc06d68747755a28aef13b
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, the countdown clock shows up wrong because I'm in a different time zone, there's about 2 more hours to go on this motherfucker.

In other news, what's Daphny doing in the first panel of this Peter Bagge comic?

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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, shit! Stop press! Dave is online right now, the countdown timer was not wrong after all!!

http://tcj.com/messboard/viewtopic.php?p=52450#52450
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude you just had to link him the anal fistula page didn't you Sad
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daphaknee
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah why didnt you link him to fucking the awesome ones like fucking multiplication THANKS FOR SMEARING KAGOS NAME

also i have a shirt that says KEEP ABORTION MANDATORY and my best friend who got an abortion said they feel pretty neat and they give you lots of good feeling drugs so abortion rules okay
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daphaknee
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

god dave sim is so pockmarked but still porking him would be totally worth it because he can go on and on about how much he hates women and how my void is probably going to break off his dick and i will love every moment of it dave sim!
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew it!
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daphaknee
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i really dont understand why they invaded your livejournal like that, you didnt really say anything offensive, i mean if i were in there you would look like a kitten
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really disappointed you weren't there, to be honest

There's still time, Dave is coming back at '10am'.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does it feel to be a void-enabler, Harvey?
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty great!

Rather that than a COCK-BLOCKER
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hate the game, not the player.
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate the PLAYER AND THE GAME

Kinda like scoring goals though
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gnosticism is a hell of a drug.

a friend of mine, who was going to become an eastern orthodox priest but instead got married and stuff, was big into sims for a while. he sent me a bunch of essays the dude had written, which were fascinating in a process church of the final judgment sort of way but otherwise completely baffling. i don't know how genuinely serious he is or if it's a way to get a lot of attention outside of writing a really long ass comic and annoy the easily annoyed and maybe attract women with severe self esteem issues.

if nothing else it cemented my earlier thoughts that gnosticism was probably far more toxic than the christianity that replaced it.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It did lead to Grant Morrison, so there's something to be grateful for.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what? gnosticism or sims?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gnosticism.

I love me some Invisibles. I like how they advertised the final issue as the first one so newcomers felt like they were jumping onto this crazy new series.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't think grant morrison fears the body, so i'm not really seeing the gnostic connection.

now crowley, yes. crowley and burroughs.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harveyjames wrote:
Pretty great!

Rather that than a COCK-BLOCKER

I just used that term not five minutes ago.

me: I just had an experience, sort of.
I was playing Carcassone, and I thought, hey, I've still got two achievements left to fulfill, both of them Live-related.
Let's see if someone's around and let's see if I can beat him by at least fifty point.
s.
So I go into the other mode besides ranked, whatever that is.
I think it's called Player Mode or something.
And I hit "quick game"
And I'm up against someone with a picture of a cat for an avater. Something-or-other-NEKO is his name.
And he sits there for a moment.
And he keeps sitting there.
And keeps sitting.
And he times out, and the piece fall in place. And it's my turn.
Huh, I think. Must have gone to the bathroom or something.
So I put down my piece, and it's his turn. And he times out again.
And I put down my next piece.
And he keeps timing out.
Curiously, the computer does a good lot of random cock-blocking.
Putting things just where they'll stop me from doing anything I wanted to do.
But I press on.
I figure, well. If I get fifty points before he comes back and pulls out, I think I'll be awarded victory anyway.
along the way, he randomly makes several roads and castles.
To no avail, as there are no men in them.
Or on them.
It gets down to around half a dozen pieces left, and there's one of those long, skinny connector castle pieces. Sort of hourglass shape.
His turn.
And after a second, it rotates in place.
...
Then it times out.
I win the game with about 150 points, not a move played.
But... that piece rotated.
Which sort of implies that someone or something touched the controller.
Did he come back halfway into the game and then sit down and watch out of curiosity?
Did he rotate the piece to freak me out, or tell me "I'm watching you"?
Or did he just fall asleep hugging the controller?
Or did the cat wander in and lick the left trigger?
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the new Chris Ware! It's pretty good It's about a girl with one leg who wants to kill herself. What are your favorite Chris Ware strips (don't say 'the whole of Jimmy Corrigan')?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Sim was a pretty nice guy when I met him. And Gerard was a pretty wacky!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harveyjames wrote:
I read the new Chris Ware! It's pretty good It's about a girl with one leg who wants to kill herself. What are your favorite Chris Ware strips (don't say 'the whole of Jimmy Corrigan')?


The later Quimby the Mouse strips (in the Quimby collection) are wonderful. Some great experimental layouts without all of the depressing baggage of his more recent work (though what I've seen of the one-legged lady strips is a big improvement). It's frustrating that his next big project, Rusty Brown, is virtually unreadable. The character is one of the hardest reads I've ever experienced, mainly because he is this projection of the worst in outcasts. It's somewhat honest work (although no one is that despicable), but it feels too much of a retread of Jimmy Corrigan, only amplified.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:55 pm    Post subject: I'm so sorry Reply with quote

Are you absolutely certain that Rusty Brown isn't based on Rya from IC/SB?

...

I've grown to be a bigger fan of the covers/other assorted trappings of Ware's collections than his actual comic stories. But that's probably just my spate of horrific impatience and laziness.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like Rusty Brown! I don't know why some people think it's depressing. Maybe it's a bit hard to stomach for a lot of comics fans, since Rusty is the embodiment of the lonely nerd archetype so many comics fans can relate to, and yet he's difficult to see as a sympathetic character.

Personally I think he's hilarious in the old one page gag strips, and I think the long format Rusty Brown story is beautiful. I didn't understand what Ware meant when he said no other medium can represent time as beautifully as comics can until I read that episode where we watch Rusty's classroom fill up with children, page by page; meanwhile, at the bottom of the page we see Chalky White getting ready for his first day of school, which is happening concurrently to the main action. I'm a fan. I like Alice, she's a great character. She's the anchor of the story. I love her relationship with Chalky.

It's interesting that Ware has started focusing on these warm and beautiful women after spending so long showing us emotionally stunted and ugly men.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see very little that is singularly funny in Rusty Brown. Most of the humor is very dry and very ironic. It all seems to just be a means of pointing out how horrible Rusty is. Over and over. It gets to the point where you still have the rhythm of a humor strip, but there punchline is simply Rusty wallowing in self-repressed misery. It's a situation where Ware is too good at making these pathetic outcasts (it all goes back to Quimby), with Rusty being the ultimate representative of the archetype.

Chalky is better though, mostly because he breaks away from the typical Ware characterizations. While Rusty is this archetypal monster, Chalky is human.

Still, I can't seem to shake the fact that Ware covered most of these relationships in the Quimby/Sparky strips. He's been revisiting and expanding upon them too much.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hadn't considered that Rusty and Chalky are a lot like Quimby and Sparky, but you're probably right. It's like he's finally getting to explore those characters on a larger canvas.

I don't think Rusty Brown is just a one-note character. What about that strip where he and Chalky watch the moon landings and Rusty notices Chalky's foot is touching his leg though Chalky doesn't realise it, and he thinks 'I could stay like this forever'! It's (sorry for the overuse of this word) beautiful.

I think there is something likeable about Rusty. I don't think he's a monster. His childhood- spent in a world of fantasy, shutting out all the other people around him- is mine exactly. 'There but for the grace of god go I' is what I think when I read his strips.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Quimby and Sparky strips encapsulate all of the major themes Ware uses, from codependency to the God-Man relationship to bitter nostalgia. It's far from his most complex work, but I think it is his most eloquent.

One of the (few) parts of Rusty Brown I like is his reluctant dependency on Chalky, although again, Quimby displayed this years before with Sparly. The hinted homosexuality was a nice touch and appropriate for their younger relationship, but it was a short piece that didn't carry through(Rusty isn't gay, he just needs Chalky). There are still a lot of parts of his childhood that are terrible and I, at least, couldn't identify with (namely, his uncompromising and malevolent selfishness).
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daphaknee wrote:
seconding museum of terror, and im not even a big ito fan

So, uh... which volumes did you read?
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