The Gamer's Quarter

[Harveyjames]

So it looks like everyone has their own idea for what 3D platform games should be and it's evident that Mario 64 has become something of an evolutionary misstep- no-one is making the games in this genre we want them to. Most people who played Super Mario Sunshine came out of it wanting to play a game which was just 120 of the 'bonus' levels, and 5 years later this game still doesn't exist. What we need is an open-source, easily customizable engine for 3D platform games in the vein of Knytt Stories, so we can define what the genre should be for ourselves. Needs to happen. Necessity is the mother of invention. Starting with the assumption that none of us has the ability to make it ourselves, let's discuss a plan of action to get this project off the ground!

[ee_emm_ecks]

What? Why?

[Harveyjames]

Since Super Mario Galaxy failed to be the 3D platform game that justified the existence of 3D platform games, revolution needs to come from us

Also, read the first post more carefully.

Jeez videogames fans are hard to motivate, OH WE'RE SO COUNTERCULTURAL but all the developments in our culture have to happen at corporate level, give me a break

[ee_emm_ecks]

let me be more specific:

why would knytt profit from 3D gameplay? It seems like you're shoehorning this idea in pretty violently, or you know something I don't, so I'm pretty interested!

[Harveyjames]

It doesn't have to be like Knytt in gameplay terms. The important aspect is that, like Knytt, it is open to customization and user-made downloadable content, so the players are encouraged to all have their own take on what the game (and the genre) should be.

Writing this is giving me genuine deja vu! My theory on deja vu is that it is caused by dreaming an event which then happens, coincidentally. The spooky feeling of recognition is caused by the recollection of the previously forgotten dream. That means I must have had a dream about making this thread at some point, so I obviously really want this to happen.

[ee_emm_ecks]

[Harveyjames]

I'd this to be pretty democratic and all-inclusive, though, so ideally it should be on an engine anyone can download and run (e.g. you don't have to own Half-Life 2 to get it to work).

Besides that, there's no reason it couldn't be something like the Source Engine, but someone has to program the mod to get the Source Engine to play like a 3D platformer- that is, the controls are relative to the camera's position. And someone needs to program the camera for that matter. The Source engine would be fine to use, so long as we made a mod with all that shit in place already, so people can build their games on top of that. A bit like Garry's Mod, it'd be a mod to allow ease of user customisation focused in a direction dictated by the original mod developer.

[ee_emm_ecks]

[Harveyjames]

Ok, I guess those engines would do fine then :|

See above for the Garry's Mod analogy.

[ee_emm_ecks]

I don't know much about programming, but what you're proposing doesn't seem too difficult. I'll step out of the conversation now and let more knowledgeable people weigh in.

[Harveyjames]

Ideally, the end result should be something that even people with no knowledge of programming whatsoever (like me) should be able to edit!

I think this is probably going to be the end of the thread, though :(

[sediment]

james harvey: deja vu is caused by a particular breach in memory protocol. Basically what happens is an image or other stimulus bypasses your short-term memory and goes straight to long term, so while you're interacting with something you get this "memory of the past" feeling about it - since it's basically on your hard drive, and not in your brain's RAM.

silly, isn't it!
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[Harveyjames]

Wow! Why does this happen? For bonus points try to tie your answer into the theme of the thread.

[sediment]

it happens because 3D modular adventure games.

No, seriously, it's basically just a glitch in the translation of audio/visual input to short-term memory. Memory works in three phases: there's initial perception, which has a really super-brief time spent in memory since it's constantly being refreshed, and that gets translated into short-term memory, which can be written to long-term if you put the effort into remembering it or just remember everything like some freaks I know.

Sometimes for reasons yet unknown to me (and I suspect most neuropsychologists) it just skips the short-term and goes directly to long term. Deja vu!
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[Cycle]

I found the previous post interesting!

Who is this ecks person! They are very mysterious!

Anyway, I don't know how well Quake would be suited to 3D platforming! There have been a few platform games made with them, but Mario 3Ds are all about the movement of mario, and the Quake engines would need a shit-tonne of work to match that!

If there WAS some kind of awesome editor that already had the movements of Mario present (like Knytt) and you could just place and shape blocks and stuff, ala the space levels, that would be pretty damn awesome, yeah.
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[Harveyjames]

Yeah!

Maybe there are some boards we could take this idea to which are frequented by people who have the ability to make it? We should start planting the seed of the idea in the right places.

[Winged Assassins (1984)]

[aderack]

I was pretty sure you typed "Vaginaquake" there.
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[Winged Assassins (1984)]

Now I wish I had.
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[D-A-I-S]

harvey just go play with the mario 64 level editor circulating the web

[Cycle]

Oh hey, I forgot about that! Good idea. I've been meaning to check it out myself... anyone had a look?
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[aderack]

[parkbench]

emx, I think you're being pretty uh...disingenuous

It's fairly obvious what Harveyjames is alluding to...if something like, say, a Super Mario 64 level editor existed, except on a non-copyrighted, totally open but interesting world/theme/charactersambiance/etc., and was designed to be an independent program that is free, intuitive and easy to use (which I'm assuming Knytt Stories is--because I am a tool, I haven't gotten around to Knytt, Knytt Stories, or even Within A Deep Forst yet), then...then we would have something on our hands, wouldn't we?

sure, it's we're pining, but. pine away, huh? i mean that's why we're chewing the fat about videogames, isn't it.
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ich bin aber eine mensch maschine

[Harveyjames]

No way, pining and pining away and chewing the fat is what every fucker does on other limp-dick forums! We all have the power to affect social change ourselves! It bugs me that so many people haven't realised this yet! RISE UP, CLODS

Right now I'm in the middle of getting an international cast of remixers to remix this crappy rap single I did a music video for, and they're doing it for free! I managed to get some guy who's done remixes for the Neptunes on board! And I'm no-one special, I'm just some guy sending nice emails!

[parkbench]

Hey, Harvyejames, I just wanted to let you know that you had me at "I love you."

Or, I mean, I'm IN FOR THE LONG HAUL MAN. Seriously, I think it's a great idea, and I'm all for anti-complacency (what do you kids call it these days...oh yes, action). I'll try to help in whatever way I can. If you'll let me be by your side (I'm flapping my eyelashes right now).

I don't know if saying "make it better" is a good idea; I would ask him some questions about the platform and potentials for expanding it, and what he thinks of the idea of an independent one. It's definitely something you could pull together with some effort. I smell an Ask Mefi thread in the works...or maybe Mefi Projects?
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ich bin aber eine mensch maschine

[Cycle]

I'd honestly first like to see a mod that ports all of the VOID levels from sunshine to mario 64. So like, you can just play them in any order and what not. YOU KNOW?
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[Harveyjames]

YES

ACE

I have to do real work now, but while I'm doing that let's discuss what we're going to say to Mr. Toad's Tool

Also, what's Mefi Projects?

[parkbench]

Hey, Harvyejames, I just wanted to let you know that you had me at "I love you."

Or, I mean, I'm IN FOR THE LONG HAUL MAN. Seriously, I think it's a great idea, and I'm all for anti-complacency (what do you kids call it these days...oh yes, action). I'll try to help in whatever way I can. If you'll let me be by your side (I'm flapping my eyelashes right now).

I don't know if saying "make it better" is a good idea; I would ask him some questions about the platform and potentials for expanding it, and what he thinks of the idea of an independent one. It's definitely something you could pull together with some effort. I smell an Ask Mefi thread in the works...or maybe Mefi Projects?
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ich bin aber eine mensch maschine

[Harveyjames]

You can type that post out as many times as you want, sugarbeet

[parkbench]

Oops. I guess I was just so intense in my fervor. Or the intarnet keeps telling me a page didnt load. and i reload. and then, this happens! and then it won't let me delete it because someone replied and i got SO MAD and then i found out it was you...

sugarbeet.

So Mefi Projects is just something for the long run, not applicable now really. It's just a site where you...well, in the vein of metafilter and Ask metafilter, people post projects--sites theyve started as basically small community advertisements and get criticisms/comments back. It's a bit smaller, actually a lot smaller than the main Mefi sites, so. I donno.

But ask mefi, definitely. Once you/we've refined the concept, people would definitely be responsive and point you/us in the right direction, I feel.
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ich bin aber eine mensch maschine

[ee_emm_ecks]

[squidlarkin]

The biggest problem with doing this on PC has to do with control. There's a reason consoles started doing 3D and having analog sticks at the same time. More and more people are getting console-style controllers for their PCs these days, but it's still a pretty small install base and they're not standardized at all, so you have to do extra work to support them all or alienate some people.

Actually, no, that's the second biggest problem. The biggest problem is that making an easy, intuitive 3D level editor is a nontrivial task.

[Harveyjames]

Yeah. I'm assuming an installed user base who owns console-style controllers for their PC, it's true. I got mine for £2 from a charity shop, but I'm aware that not everyone should be so lucky. Still, you can even use Xbox360 controllers with PCs these days, so I'm not sure it's too big a problem. Maybe.

I emailed the guy who makes Toad's Tool. Waiting on a reply. Toad's tool is actually constrained by the rom checksum blahdeblah of the orginal game Mario 64, so you can't actually add 3D terrain or take it away, or even create new levels. You can move objects around, though. I'm going to ask if this will be changed for a different version, and sort of put my idea to him. It could be that this is the guy to help us build the engine? I looked at his website, he's made a lot of crazy shit, including a 3D voxel remake of Metroid. His Metroid level editor is seriously impressive, too.

[dessgeega]

[simplicio]

[Intentionally Wrong]

[Harveyjames]

[fish]

this thread gave me a killer idea.
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you cant spell selfish without fish

[Harveyjames]

What is it?

I spoke to the Toad's Tool guy a couple of times, I'm just waiting for him to reply to my killer theory now.

[ee_emm_ecks]

Where are the screenshots?
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Only a philistine believes in having fun. Rite guys?