The Gamer's Quarter Forum Index The Gamer's Quarter
A quarterly publication
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Everything I know about FPS games I learned from John Romero
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 21, 22, 23  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gamer's Quarter Forum Index -> Club for the Study and Appreciation of Interactive Audio Visual Media
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dhex
Breeder
Breeder


Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6319
Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have to say that i don't get the love for the marathon series, but i've also never been able to get it to scale very well on my pc so even marathon infinity or whatever the last one is called looks worse than doom.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Hot Sake!


Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fish wrote:
i bumped into romero once.
he's a tiny man.

If he's so small, did you knock him over?
sediment wrote:
Hexen II would also be ultra-sweet to reacquire, now that I think of it.

Get Steam (free) then buy it! Or go for the whole iD game pack:

Code:
Commander Keen (all episodes)
DOOM 3
DOOM 3 Resurrection of Evil
DOOM II
Final DOOM
Heretic: Shadow of the Serpent Riders
HeXen
HeXen II
HeXen: Deathkings of the Dark Citadel
Master Levels for Doom II
QUAKE
QUAKE II
QUAKE II Mission Pack: Ground Zero
QUAKE II Mission Pack: The Reckoning
Quake III Arena
QUAKE III: Team Arena
QUAKE Mission Pack 1: Scourge of Armagon
QUAKE Mission Pack 2: Dissolution of Eternity
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Spear of Destiny
Ultimate DOOM
Wolfenstein 3D

-----------------------------------------------------------
 
Individual price $213.90 
Package price $69.95 

_________________
“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Harveyjames
the meteor kid
the meteor kid


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's soooooooooooooooooooooooooo friggin' cheap!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Hot Sake!


Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harveyjames wrote:
That's soooooooooooooooooooooooooo friggin' cheap!

Yeah, it's kind of sick how cheap that is. Also all the games run in Windows shells so they work on basically any windows based machine even if they never previously did officially.

Though I'm having some weird key sticking issues in Quake, like if I hold up and the game decides that it wants to grab that key it will keep holding it for like 3 seconds for no reason. I wish I could fix it!
_________________
“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
sediment
.
.


Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 428
Location: SUPERPOWER GEORGIALAND

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just may have to do that! I didn't even know that was going down. I love Steam forever now.
_________________

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
aderack
.
.


Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scratchmonkey wrote:
As a general question, is there an FPS that has level design that's more like the TES than your standard "tunnel" design?

Not that I don't like the tunnel design, I'd just be interested if there was an FPS that used more of an "open" feel.

Not having played it, wasn't this what Far Cry was supposed to be all about?

EDIT:

Quote:
Ah, I completely forgot Farcry. That is a pretty wide open FPS.

Yeah.

Also, I think the adventure game origins are what make Doom so freakin' interesting to me. Especially in episode 1, you can still see a lot of that mentality lingering around. (I'll have to go back and check out the Tom Hall levels in episode 2; I recall the warehouse one being one of the best.) It also explains why Half-Life (which is in some senses kind of like Myst With Guns) feels like more of a successor to Doom than most of the shooting-focused games that followed it.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Harveyjames
the meteor kid
the meteor kid


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's priced so cheaply it actually makes more sense to buy those games than pirate them .

I've been playing Quake through something called EZQuake, which is a super-modern frontend for Quake which even updates some of the textures. Also, you can get a texture pack for it which some Dutch hackers made which makes exery texture super-detailed and hi-res, like a modern game. And my computer runs it really smoothly, WHILE RUNNING AFTER EFFECTS, PHOTOSHOP and at super hi-res. I was like O_O I hadn't considered this computer as a games machine before, I just bought it because it's got a tablet screen, but after that I want to see what this puppy is capable of. I'm thinking I want to see what Source engine stuff runs like, but Valve games aren't easy to pirate, are they?

Anyway, I've been playing through most of Episode 1 of Quake with no saves and restarting each level with no weapons everytime I died. It's actually built in such a way as to accomodate this, so I'd recommend it since it makes the game a lot more exciting and forces you to consider each level as a whole, plus dying becomes a real penalty.

It is really fucking well designed. There are severals way to approach every level, so you're allowed to be very creative in the way you choose to play them. You can pretty much take on most of them back-to-front through shrewd use of quad damage, rocket jumps, secret passages and other tricks. Even though each area's got an obvious linear route through it, you can choose to completely ignore it.

There's one really tough area which you have to walk over a tiny crooked walkway in pitch black to get to. You're supposed to go halfway across the level to find a lightswitch for that area so you can go over the walkway safely. But! What I've been doing is to get a secret quad damage at the start and then simply jump over the walkway using the light provided by the quad to help me, and clear out the secret area using just the shotgun you start the level with- then do the whole area where you find the lightswitch, but with much more health than you would normally have.

Also every level is really short and bitesize! I'd have liked to have seen this game have a goldeneye/halo system of selecting levels and providing incentive to clear each level on all difficulties or under certain times, because they all warrant replaying seperately, out of sequence and many times over. Man, my dam has burst talking about this game. I love it. I haven't even begun to talk about my memories of the online multiplayer, 'Quakeworld'.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
aderack
.
.


Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone played the GBA Doom?

It strikes me that the game would work really damned well on the DS, especially with the map on the upper screen.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Harveyjames
the meteor kid
the meteor kid


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, GBA Doom works a lot better than I thought it would. It's pretty great.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Winged Assassins (1984)
.
.


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 996
Location: Super Magic Drive

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear GBA DooM II is better.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No brightness adjustment was pain in the ass. It was too dark on my original GBA and too bright on the micro!

That reminds, I should check the progress on DooMDS, that was looking good. I hear Descent has also been ported, I shouldgive that a look too...

I was fascinated with FPS games on the GBA for awhile. And the one FPS game for the original GB.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Winged Assassins (1984)
.
.


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 996
Location: Super Magic Drive

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
I hear Descent has also been ported, I shouldgive that a look too...

Touch Motion Sickness?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Slonie
.
.


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy to see OFP love in this thread (Operation Flashpoint).

That game was wicked ahead-of-its time and awesome. Too bad the Xbox port came out four years later instead of quickly after the PC version. It could have had more of an audience if it wasn't so "dated" by the time it shipped.

Can we have a small digression here into the much-avoided history of the ARCADE FPS?
I loved playing War: Final Assault and its tiny maps, murderous 3-minute deathmatches with winner staying on for the next game like it was a damn fighting game. Good times.
_________________
-Slonie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you mean FPS games actually released in arcades?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harveyjames
the meteor kid
the meteor kid


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winged Assassins (1984) wrote:
Cycle wrote:
I hear Descent has also been ported, I shouldgive that a look too...

Touch Motion Sickness?


I had the demo of Descent. I just remember that I found it intensely confusing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Slonie
.
.


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
do you mean FPS games actually released in arcades?


Basically yes. Bonus points for mentioning Wolfenstein VR, and the DooM II arcade machine featured in Grosse Point Blank. And then on to attempts to make FPSs "you know, for Japan!" like the Japanified arcade Counterstrike and Half Life 2 Survivor.

I'm also thinking back to reading about an arcade implementation of Quake that had a timer and gave you time for killing things or picking stuff up. Did I just imagine that? And if not, did it ever actually come out?

To tell you the truth, I just was thinking about War due to the burning competition in a real arcade that I enjoyed with it. This came to mind after reading another (TERRIBLE) thread on another forum that is going on even as we speak. I posted in this thread instead.

Another point: If Halo was the first game to truly nail FPS controls on a console (or Goldeneye for that matter), is War the only game to actually nail FPS controls in the arcade? I haven't played anything newer than it besides Out Trigger (I certainly haven't played the aforementioned Half Life 2 arcade game).


*Ninja-Edited to add descriptive adjective for an arcade-game-related thread.
_________________
-Slonie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never heard of this WAR game. Please explain!

I was goign to bring up the Quake arcade game. It was reviewed in any issue of Next Generation, so I assume it indeed came out! I would love to play that.

I remember having fun with OUTTRIGGER on the Dreamcast, which was an arcade port. It was the first time I saw the Japanese take on the first-person shooter and it was pretty interesting. We played it more than the Quake 3 port.

Also notable for being a FPS created by Sega AM2 of all people.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Slonie
.
.


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
I have never heard of this WAR game. Please explain!


Keep in mind that by asking for information, I'll probably force myself to look up just who was behind this game and what they've done before or since then. But here we go, a quick link to KLOV to get the picture side out of the way.

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=W&game_id=10402

I'm going to write this post totally from my recollections of the game, and not from exhaustive internet research (which I will probably proceed to do immediately after posting...)

The "campaign" was a co-oppable romp through several large stages with various hidden secrets (including one-key-per-level that you needed to find to get to the true final stage) and a ticking timer. You could play as different characters with different weapons and strengths. But that was just justification to having the deathmatches...

Which took place in various small arenas. With hideously overpowered and awesome weapons like a heat-seaking rocket launcher, a laser that reflected off walls, lobbable grenade launcher, and a kind of a SONIC BOOM cannon that you could charge up and unleash for massive damage. The pro-tip for that one is that its blast would actually go through walls, so you could punk people that were hiding in a bunker with it.

Let's see, what else...It ran at a healthy 60fps off of 3Dfx-esque hardware and just generally looked, to me anyway, like a generically modern FPS should look. Except that it was in the arcade. And despite having a 3rd-person over-the-shoulder view available for people that just couldn't get used to FPS's (Japan?), it was pretty damn hardcore in the UI department.

The controls mimicked a mouse/keyboard setup, except that the keyboard was an array of four standard arcade buttons for WASD and a thumb-reachable button for jumping roughly where the space bar would be. The right hand held a nice, springy analog stick that featured a trigger and a thumb button. The thumb button dropped your current weapon so that you could pick up another. Somewhat like in Halo, you had your current powerful weapon and your default as a fallback. It worked as well as in Halo for keeping the campaign honest, as well as being particularly suited to the short, fast, and brutal deathmatches.

The matches were 3 minutes long if I recall correctly, which makes them rather fighting-game-esque. The leader of any given match stayed on the machine for the next round, which I took particular pleasure in when beating up on my arcade's operator.

I believe some of the deathmatch levels were time-release too, or got added in an operator expansion. Also the cabinet had a dollar bill acceptor on it, which was the first time I had seen it outside of NFL Blitz. I used it. A lot.


Also, it was supposed to be ported to the N64 but it got cancelled. I shed a tear for it.


Edit based off of having my memory jogged by the Internet #1: Oh yeah, you could save your character via name/passcode as in other Midway games, and your rank went up, unlocking characters and such.


Edit #2, from the KLOV article: "Later, conversion kits shipped with an 8-way, single button joystick for the left hand to control movement and jumping."

Interesting...Also interesting is how I've seen a WAR cabinet converted into Deer Hunting at a local arcade. Sad.

Edit #3:


And a flyer link: http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=thumbs&db=videodb&id=1346

And a vintage content-free preview from IGN for the N64 version. Clearly they never even laid hands on the port, electing instead to parrot the bullet points of the arcade game: http://ign64.ign.com/articles/130/130590p1.html

And then, the dream was over: http://ign64.ign.com/articles/068/068236p1.html
_________________
-Slonie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Swimmy
.
.


Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 990
Location: Fairfax, VA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something that came up in IRC the other day: remember when Doom 3 was being released, and a whole lot of general sentiment was, "I think Doom 3 is going to kinda suck, but id is an engine-building company, and I can't wait to see what comes out of the gorgeous engine they made"?

Now, what's been made of it? Quake 4 and Prey? Meanwhile, Source is tidying up the PC FPS market nicely thanks to its flexible graphics and entertaining physics. And Unreal Engine 3 is becoming the backbone of this console generation.

Just a thought.
_________________

"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Winged Assassins (1984)
.
.


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 996
Location: Super Magic Drive

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember seeing War: Final Assault either reviewed or previewed in shabby Australian gaming rag Hyper years ago and thought it looked reet swell. I think they ran a bit about Quake Arcade but that might have been not shabby Australian PC gaming rag PC Powerplay. The levels either had a timer or you kept losing health or something and had to run run run to beat the game. Apart from Yellow Marine needs more Health I can't recall anything else from that article. I imagine that Quake would work really well in arcades due to the few amount of buttons you need to play the game.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swimmy wrote:
Something that came up in IRC the other day: remember when Doom 3 was being released, and a whole lot of general sentiment was, "I think Doom 3 is going to kinda suck, but id is an engine-building company, and I can't wait to see what comes out of the gorgeous engine they made"?


I totally predicted that the Source engine would do better business than the Doom 3 engine but for some reason no one believed me.

I mean, you can either have one SUPER HIGH REQUIREMENT DEMANDING engine that looks amazing when maxed but can't handle large amounts of action going on at once or open areas, or you could get a much more versitile engine with much more moderate system requirements, thus allowing your game to reach more people, but doesn't look as super duper but this of course can be fought with an interesting art direction.

I KNOW WHICH I'D CHOOSE.
_________________


Last edited by Cycle on Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:07 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slonie wrote:

And a flyer link: http://www.arcadeflyers.com/?page=thumbs&db=videodb&id=1346


DUDE, CHECK IT OUT.

THE CHICK HAS NIPPLE SPIKES.

Seriously though, this game sounds very interesting! I love seeing different takes on the FPS genre, and wish I saw more of the arcade interpretations... funnily enough, it sounds like it had similar ideas to Outtrigger.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harveyjames
the meteor kid
the meteor kid


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My computer ran Half Life 2 at an ok speed.

Then it switched itself off mid-game :(
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
aderack
.
.


Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1104
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slonie wrote:
And then on to attempts to make FPSs "you know, for Japan!" like the Japanified arcade Counterstrike and Half Life 2 Survivor.

There are some really interesting details regarding that.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Slonie
.
.


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aderack wrote:
Slonie wrote:
And then on to attempts to make FPSs "you know, for Japan!" like the Japanified arcade Counterstrike and Half Life 2 Survivor.

There are some really interesting details regarding that.


There sure are! Thanks for linking/writing that.
_________________
-Slonie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
dhex
Breeder
Breeder


Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6319
Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Another crucial feature – the one this lecture seemed like it might have been about – was the way Counter-Strike looked. Its whole presentation screams "Western PC game", which in turn causes the average Japanese gamer to scream "Eek". The characters are gritty, burly, and not particularly appealing – so Namco got an artist to anime them up a little, replacing sweaty gringos with guys in primary-colored spandex and PVC shoulderpads, and hairy guys in fatigues and ski masks with antigravity-busted women in three square inches of purple nylon.


man i love japan.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Hot Sake!


Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember that War game. It came out right around the end of the time I was still going to arcades somewhat regularly. I never really liked the game because most of the time when I saw it the game was alone, but I could tell it was really intended for Co-Op. When I did see system linked versions no one was playing it. The worst part was that the game always felt like a game that is developed for a movie: Generic FPS With No Textures and Bombastic Audio 2000. Or something.

aderack wrote:
Slonie wrote:
And then on to attempts to make FPSs "you know, for Japan!" like the Japanified arcade Counterstrike and Half Life 2 Survivor.

There are some really interesting details regarding that.

Yes! You know, I completely forgot where the hell I read that. I don't know why, but I never thought to look at Gamasutra. Anyways, yeah, I always liked that article. I'm not sure I knew you were the one who wrote it.



So, Half-Life 2 Survivor is kinda similar to the above linked stuff for Counterstrike, but not quite as offensive. Hell, I kinda wish that some of the stuff that they made got to the 360 port of the game (ala Survivor mode for Marathon:D). The first thing to note about the game is the control scheme.



It reminds me a hell of a lot more like a flight cockpit than anything else. I remember reading that the developers were having problems with the mice, or what they were using for mice, so they came up with that floating disc thing.

Here's a standup cab for better understanding of the control:



Ok, so they controls, who knows, they may work. Honestly, they seem like they could work well enough. But what's different about the game? Well the maps are set up now more like cheap obstacle courses and shooting galleries with the story (for the most part) being ignored. They also did TERRIBLE awful things to the level design. Example A:



I just realised that this post is going to be long even though I didn't intend it to be when I started! Ok, trucking right along. So on top of level design changes they also added different characters (makes sense with system link type games for versus). These characters almost all come in female types, but the ones that stand out to me are the addition:



That should have been in the game.

Next we'll take a look at the way they changed the HUD:


Man, they totally ruined a fairly minimalist HUD. Anyways, as you can see they made the reticule enormous. They added things like score, time and position. They increased the shield/health thing and made it a giant rainbow circle in the lower left. They keep the weapons onscreen at all times. They put huge floating identifiers on everything (not especially the gem icon over the GEM. A gem in HL2?). The Zombie House in this is part of the mission which is basically: survive while killing more zombies than anyone else.

Example b:



As you can also see, in this different mode, not only are the weapons shown at all times (actually, shown twice: once in the semi circle showing the current weapon and ammo, while also showing all your weapons below that) they're also showing you where your secondary button is and how much secondary ammo you have. At all times.

This is another example of arbitrary floating identifiers with the crates, but also now you can see in the "story mode" (which is, i've been informed, a more light-gun style story mode with short runs through levels and cutscenes tying cut-down levels together) that they constantly point you forwards with both a random floating arrow, and highlighting the door. It's kind of like what the developers did originally with play testing, but now just highlighted with crazy-markers for Jaypan.

One last image to highlight how far they went with the floating identifiers and just to make you groan:



So, yeah, there's a few game modes: Battle Mode (vs types) , Mission Mode (Zombie Hunter, Gem collecting, and Escape), and Story Mode. You can also buy these cards and save your progress in story mode and your kill counts and scores for other modes.

I kind of wish that the Mission Modes (sans floating identifiers) were put into one of these ports, but oh well. The game was chopped up and beaten into submission just so it could be released in Japan and it shows.

Last but not least: a Gameplay Video!
_________________
“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
loves your favorite videogame


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:


i am hereby co-opting this amazing image for an as-yet unspecified purpose.

also i'd be interested in hearing about the controls from someone who's played the game. they seem more elegant than those of gunbuster, an earlier attempt at bringing first-person shooter gameplay to the arcade.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Hot Sake!


Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
i am hereby co-opting this amazing image for an as-yet unspecified purpose.

Here's some more in different colors and shit:
Black!
Shiny Black-Green!
Camo Black-Blue
RED!

Small Gallery:









(also here's some posters and weird shit for the game)

EDIT: I highly approve of the new avatar!
_________________
“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
dhex
Breeder
Breeder


Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6319
Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aw man i just notice she has high heels on.

man japan why you gotta be like that?
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Hot Sake!


Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhex wrote:
aw man i just notice she has high heels on.

man japan why you gotta be like that?

Wow! I would have never noticed that. That's pretty amazing. It's like slashfic, but official.
_________________
“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
Harveyjames
the meteor kid
the meteor kid


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're such great designs, otherwise :(

I still haven't played Half-Life 2 properly. The only person I know with a HDTV and an Xbox 360 is my dad, and it is no fucking fun playing games anywhere near him. The only scenario I can see where I get to play it and enjoy it involves his death :|
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Slonie
.
.


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding my request for arcade-ified and Japan-ified FPSs..Now we're talking!

Shapermc wrote:
The worst part was that the game always felt like a game that is developed for a movie: Generic FPS With No Textures and Bombastic Audio 2000. Or something.


Yeah, art direction wasn't exactly the strong suit for the game. But it played great!*

*provided you had 3 or 4 people.

Also I blame Outtrigger for vomiting up all of the "You know, Japan!" HUD all over what is otherwise a simple game. Halflife 2 Survivor cranks it up to parody-like levels.



Also the SEXY COUNTERSTRIKE characters are one thing, but I never thought I'd see SEXY COMBINE SOLDIER.

(as in, the proliferation of halloween costumes that fall into the category of "SEXY" and then some normal profession)
_________________
-Slonie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Slonie
.
.


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
gunbuster, an earlier attempt at bringing first-person shooter gameplay to the arcade.


Gunbuster was awesome. And I really did play it on the arcade in like 1993. However nowadays, it works pretty well as a mouse+keyboard game in MAME. Imagine that!
_________________
-Slonie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
dhex
Breeder
Breeder


Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6319
Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also the SEXY COUNTERSTRIKE characters are one thing, but I never thought I'd see SEXY COMBINE SOLDIER.


just because you've had most of your vital organs, your free will and any sense of self mechanically stripped from you is no reason to give up your femininity!

i mean really people c'mon let's be serious.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
extrabastardformula
.
.


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lestrade wrote:
Yeah, but his hair is huuuuuge. Well, it was, then it wasn't, now thankfully it is again.
I like how after he broke up with Stevie Case he editted all of his old blog entries to that they were just dating instead of being married or nearly so. It was weird but it gave me insight into the man.
_________________
Signature:
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit

HTML is ON
BBCode is ON
Smilies are ON
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
extrabastardformula
.
.


Joined: 08 Feb 2007
Posts: 295

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Commander Keen (all episodes)
DOOM 3
DOOM 3 Resurrection of Evil
DOOM II
Final DOOM
Heretic: Shadow of the Serpent Riders
HeXen
HeXen II
HeXen: Deathkings of the Dark Citadel
Master Levels for Doom II
QUAKE
QUAKE II
QUAKE II Mission Pack: Ground Zero
QUAKE II Mission Pack: The Reckoning
Quake III Arena
QUAKE III: Team Arena
QUAKE Mission Pack 1: Scourge of Armagon
QUAKE Mission Pack 2: Dissolution of Eternity
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Spear of Destiny
Ultimate DOOM
Wolfenstein 3D

-----------------------------------------------------------

Individual price $213.90
Package price $69.95
Pouting for lack of Dangerous Dave. I cannot be satisfied.
_________________
Signature:
This is a block of text that can be added to posts you make. There is a 255 character limit

HTML is ON
BBCode is ON
Smilies are ON
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We do crazy things when a relationship ends, bastard.

There also isn't Catacombs (2D or 3D) or Hovertank 3D (their first FPS), that's because all their really early titles were owned by Softdisk who are infamous for not sharing their properties in any way. I wonder if KEEN DREAMS is in this pack, since they owned that episode. Also yeah, the Dave games were pretty pimp! Context sensitive death animations FTW.

Also, Outtrigger wasn't that bad with the HUD, alright! It was a fun game and had some good ideas!

Please tell me more about Gunbuster.

In fact, I'm going to start a list of ARCADE FPS games

War: Final Assault
Half Life 2: Survivor
Outtrigger
Gunbuster
Quake: The Arcade Game

EDIT: Oh, it's a Taito game, of course Dess has played it! Why isn't it on any of the collections.

Also, a banner also needs to be made of the female carbine!
_________________


Last edited by Cycle on Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Slonie
.
.


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gunbuster screenshot:



I gotta find a cabinet shot to show how it went, but basically it had a typical Operation Wolf-style fixed lightgun and a separate joystick. The gun handled aiming up and down and all over the screen, causing your character to turn when the cursor got near the edge. The joystick handled strafing movement. Four-player gameplay was supported.

Think of Steel Gunner with a more sophisticated engine (it could display walls!) and freedom of movement, then place it in small environments and you're on the right track.

If nobody can find a cabinet photo, the tutorial at the start gives a pretty good impression. Boot it up in MAME and find out! I should have posted more screenshots. Maybe Dess can take up the call.


Oh, and I don't hate outtrigger or think its HUD is really that bad, but the giant outlines appearing around all the enemies is so hugely JapanFPS. The Dreamcast version was sweet due to allowing you to mouse+keyboard your way to success.


Okay, here's a buncha screenshots!

http://www.vazcomics.org/mamend/G/gunbustr.htm

It definitely slots in next to Space Gun for Taito awesomeness in the lightgun genre, while at the same time actually creating a damn-decent user interface for an arcade FPS.

And additionally, it just reminded me of some game that was in my local arcade briefly in the Dreamcast era that had a full-on lightgun while allowing full movement with 3D graphics. It also almost totally didn't work. God, what was it called! I just remember people spinning around in place constantly.
_________________
-Slonie


Last edited by Slonie on Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a cab shot at KLOV. It soudns pretty interesting, especially how it was mostly boss battles plus four player deathmatch.

Man I would have liked to play this game in the arcades, but I don't think I'll ever see it Sad MAME ain't the same, especially for games with novel set-ups.

Oh man, Space Gun was awesome (if you had two-players, it's LUDICROUSLY hard on your own), but we can't talk about that since it was a light gun game, not a FPS.

EDIT: Holy shit Gunbuster looks awesome:


_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Apparently only twenty prototypes were made. More info here:

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9188

It looks like there was just a computer inside, so you could probably take the software off it and just play it on a normal computer.
_________________


Last edited by Cycle on Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Slonie, it was probably one of these two (TWO MORE FOR THE LIST):

GUNMEN WARS, Namco, 1998.

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=8050





Looks like this one had a third person option too. It also had a camera, hence all the pictures above each player!

THE GRID, Midway, 2001

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=13662

This one was made by Ed Boon and other memebers of the MK team! Shit tonne of information here:

http://www.trmk.org/games/thegrid/



Ok, all of these are in third-person too, so maybe I was misinformed?

Either way, they both sound like they PLAY like FPS games.

EDIT: Ah, found the REAL klov page for it:

http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=8010

So as I guessed, it plays like Quake and Outtrigger, but is third-person.

EDIT 2: I found the MANUAL for the Gunmen Wars arcade cabinent, and it's also third person Sad

GUESS I DON'T HAVE TWO MORE TO ADD.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Slonie
.
.


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's okay, because it gives me an opportunity to state that Gunmen Wars is the descendant of Tokyo Wars. Incidentally, would anybody like a live-playable version of Tokyo Wars on XBLA?

This game I'm thinking of is...Hopefully I'm not hallucinating, but I had totally forgot about it till now. It had a full rifle-sized lightgun (ala Konami's Terraburst) that may have also had movement buttons on it. I'm never going to figure this one out and it's going to piss me off mightily. I also feel like it was Korean for some reason but that doesn't make much sense. Hopefully I didn't dream it back in 2001 or something, or hopefully it wasn't just on test and never actually came out. Either one would be just as verifiable without remembering the name.

Semi-Related Story: It was 15 years before I discovered that BMX Heat never actually came out, and the time I saw it at Malibu Castle was because it was on test. It was by Atari and had the graphics of Hard Drivin' + combined with the input device of Namco's Prop Cycle and Downhill Bikers. I'll make a "Games where you ride a bicycle" thread at some point too, probably.
_________________
-Slonie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
helicopterp
.
.


Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 1435
Location: Philadelphia

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Grid's level design was straight-up, few-frills arena. The controls were floaty, and so was the way the characters moved.

That said, it had a cabinet that sucked me in like a vortex when I was thirteen or fourteen. I may have just been happy to see anything new at a dying arcade, though. The place shut down less than a year after that.
_________________
Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gun Survivor 2 Biohazard Code: Veronica was apparently a FPS game!

Quote:
A 3D arcade shooter (also released for PlayStation 2, making use of the GunCon controller) set in the Biohazard: CODE Veronica continuity. Players see the game from the first-person perspective and battle alongside Claire Redfield against an army of the undead. The game allowed full roaming control (the gun in the game cabinet also is anchored in as a joystick controller for moving the character) and the arcade game was also built as a 2-cabinet system for two players to go into the monster melee together.


Quote:
Players have the option of choosing between either Claire Redfield or Steve Burnside and two-player cooperative play is possible. Gameplay is closer to that of a standard first person shooter than the original Gun Survivor game, as instead of a manual crosshair the game uses a fixed crosshair that remains at the center of the screen.

The Arcade version of the game has a somewhat unusual layout. Instead of a wieldable lightgun like those used in House of the Dead or Time Crisis, the game uses a fixed mounted machine gun that serves as a joystick to move the player and rotate his or her view, as well as to fire the player's onscreen weapons. The game runs on a timer that counts down when an area is entered, and if time runs out, the Nemesis from Resident Evil 3: Nemesis will start pursuing the player and make quick work of the characters if they don't hurry to the exit. This version also has a 2-player multiplayer option.

Originally planned for release under the title of Biohazard: Fire Zone, the game was renamed in order to tie it with the similarly-playing (but otherwise unrelated) Resident Evil: Survivor.





_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Slonie
.
.


Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never played The Grid, but it looked like kind of a throwback with its DooM-style single-plane aiming. Or perhaps a successor to Smash TV!
_________________
-Slonie
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Harveyjames
the meteor kid
the meteor kid


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Continuing my playthrough of Quake; difficulty: hard, saves: only when I want to stop playing, death means restarting the enitre level with no weapons.

I just picked it up again today and finshed 'Door to Chthon', the penultimate level of episode 1. It's basically two areas based around a central hub room , which also has the locked exit leading off it and the key to that exit tantalisingly out of reach, right from the start. There's a Quad Damage hidden at the beginning of the first area, which I'd been taking and then using to clear out the second area before I'm supposed to get to it.

However, I found that once you've completed areas one and two and activated the bridge to get to the exit key and crossed it, an enormous woolly DIMENSIONAL SHAMBLER appears behind you, blocking your path to the way out! Even when I managed to run past him and kill him by sniping from a safe vantage point, there was another shambler waiting for me inside the exit! Needless to say I died quickly.

Having discovered this I changed my strategy accordingly. On my next attempt, I left the quad damage until the very end, grabbing it just before picking up the key and then dispatching the two Shamblers in seconds with a total of 4 rockets. Victory!

Playing this years ago with the constant safety net of the quicksave button, I'd missed out on this 'resource management' aspect of the game. I'd always thought FPS games were pretty much straight ahead 'plow through this content so you don't have to do it again' type affairs, but playing like this you realise that Quake's almost Nintendoean in it's design sensibilty, almost a 'oh dude you gotta go to 3-1 to get the shoe otherwise you can't fight Bowser' sort of thing. It actually rewards you for having a knowledge and mastery over the item locations, nuances and idiosyncrasies of each level.

That level was designed by American McGee. McGee did most of episode 3, so I'll look forward to that. (Shaper that is a really useful list at the top of the thread there).

Right now I'm on episode 2, which is Romero's episode. It looks a lot like how I imagined Daikatana to look, as in 'here's the castle, here's the moat, this is what this is with little ambiguity or abstraction'. I've played level one, 'The Ogre Citadel'. He has a lot of fun with placing Ogres at the top of twisty, turny narrow staircases so their grenades will bounce down on you, and pulls cheap shocks like having a devil face at the start of a corridor which spits nails at you when your back is turned, but it's a blast to play in a spooky-ooky fun house sort of way. It doesn't have the aesthetics and atmosphere of Tim Willits' levels or the cleverness of that one McGee level- it almost feels cheap, in fact. like a user map, but I enjoyed it a lot. I'm on the Crypt of Decay now, which is the level with the Dopefish in it, so I'll have fun trying to find that.


Last edited by Harveyjames on Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Harvey, I hoped you remembered to hit the switch in the episode hub so you can get to the secret level!
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harveyjames
the meteor kid
the meteor kid


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'The Well Of Wishes awaits in the Crypt of Decay'

You mean that? Yep. I think I did, anyway...

I found a recent interview with Romero regarding Quake over at http://www.quakeexpo.com/interview_romero.php. It's pretty illuminating and the interviewer asks some good questions even though he does come off as a complete dong. Check this out:

Romero wrote:
Quake was one original idea that got changed 7 months before shipping to something totally different and the name remained because the world already knew what the game was called. Originally the game was going to be much more like an adventure or experience - you traveled through a full 3D world with your massive hammer which increased in power as you defeated enemies, much like Link's sword in the Zelda series. That was the idea but there was never any game code to prove out the idea. So we reached a boiling point where some of the dev team was very worried that we wouldn't be able to release the game within a year after our first year of development and they started to freak out. We held a vote and the vote was to just slap in DOOM-style weapons and polish it off and get it out the door.


I had no idea. It's amazing how well the game hangs together, considering. I thought this was quite telling, too, given what I'd already observed about Romero's level design style:

:
Romero wrote:
I really did enjoy designing the E2 maps in Quake - so fun to do with the lights out and Queensryche playing.


Queensryche. Figures. After playing E1M6 I'd really like to see an interview on Quake with American McGee, more than anything.


Last edited by Harveyjames on Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember not being a big fan of his levels (especially in Ultimate DooM, he did some cool ones for DooM 2 though) and he hasn't done anything decent since.

In an interview with Romero I have, he describes another idea he had for Quake. When exploring, the game would be first-person, but if you encountered an enemy, ithe camera would shift into a side view and the game would then turn into Virtua Fighter.

Interesting.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Gamer's Quarter Forum Index -> Club for the Study and Appreciation of Interactive Audio Visual Media All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, ... 21, 22, 23  Next
Page 2 of 23

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group