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Everything I know about FPS games I learned from John Romero
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Winged Assassins (1984)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strikes me as a bit Into The Shadows. Well,, minus the first-person bit and ignoring that it was in development after Quake.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I would have liked to have seen how that turned out. They could barely get it together to make Quake the way it was. There's no animation on the gun models! Imagine how clunky and rubbish-looking an Id software fighting game would have looked in 1996.

Actually, there's a Mortal Kombat game which has an adventure mode just like that, where you roam the land doing Zelda-y things and when you meet an opponent you fight them in a round of Mortal Kombat. Needless to say it is fucking terrible.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember taking a screenshot of GOTCHA! with the demon and spider facing each other looking like it's on a 2D plane, and adding some life bars, and then posting it on the internet saying it's a leaked screen from a fighter id were working on.

I didn't convince many people.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was you that did that?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wait what i didnt realise it got circulated

seriously?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's so cute.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Romero usually makes for a pretty interesting interview.

Also Harvey, I also saw the Miyamoto influence in Episode 1 and asked Romero about it once, I lost the response though. I mean, he said Miyamoto is a big influence on him, and he named the main character in Daikatana after him.

I'm sure it was meant to be a compliment at the time.

I should dig up another interview where he talks about wanting to make a game about CHOICES. Such as whether or not to cross a bridge.

Seriously, that is the example he uses.

One of his less stellar game ideas, there.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Romero please get back to being a lead designer and not anything else plz.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
wait what i didnt realise it got circulated

seriously?

Yeah, someone showed me an image of a CyberdemonxMastermind battle and tried to make me think it was id's next game but they failed in describing it to me so I saw through that. I totally photocopied it and stuck it around various places at my school because I was totally obsessed with DooM II back then.

It spurned me into ripping sprites from the wad, printing them off, Blu-Tacking them onto sticks and having my own DooM fighting game for real. Yes, that's how sad a boy I was.

I did so make up my own vocal sound effects and 'tough' voices for it.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HAVE AT YOU , MASTERMIND!!

KUNG FU KICK!! YAAA!!

Also that is awesome, I thought it just died in the forum I posted it in (but it was a pretty big forum at the time). Unless someone else did a similar thing!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Rero, do you that issue of Hyper (has MK3 on the cover I think) that had all those fake MK shots? Like a PYTHONALITY where a giant foot crushed the other player?

I totally wanted that in MK 3.

Also how are you doing with those Zone episodes.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the Sim City 2000 Urban Renewal kit which allowed you to edit Sim City's graphics and a Doom WAD ripper, and made DOOM CITY where all the houses were item pickups and the tall buildings were various sizes of monster. It took me a lot of Saturdays.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

COOL. I also had the renewal kit. I didn't know you could do that kind of stuff! I just used it to cheat.

Oh wait, I remember trying to edit some of the sprites into cooler stuff! Can't remember what, though.

I remember editing the first level of DooM 2 a heap, such as putting a mastermind in the back garden area, and placing hanging keens all over the damn place.

Ah, those were the days.

Back before I thought about BALANCE and WELL-CRAFTED SETPIECES

I was just like FUCK YEAH, BFG ON THE FIRST LEVEL AND THREE CYBERDEMONS THIS SHIT IS GONNA BE TIGHT

ALSO, HANGING KEENS ALL OVER THE FUCKING PLACE!!! ROCK ON

AND BARRELS.

LOTS OF BARRELS.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got absolutely nowhere trying to edit levels. It was too hard...

Hey Valve and Turtle Rock Studio's 'Left 4 Dead' looks cool. It's a multiplayer FPS in which you co-operate to make your way through a city full of Zombies. Also CHOICES.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I never really made levels (I think I made a box once and just used it to stick lots of stuff in), I mainly worked with premade ones for HILARIOUS RESULTS.

Left 4 Dead sounds interesting!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So has anyone seen the OUCH face while playing doom?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I have I don't remember it... how do you get that?

I remember my dad hacked apart the Doom wad file in a hex editor (I think) and was really pleased with himself because he managed to find the word 'fuck'.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh harveyjames dad, when will you learn!

Quote:
The status bar graphic "STFOUCH*" displays an anguished face of shock and pain. During normal gameplay it is seen only rarely, and for a long time the face was considered an almost random occurrence.

However, when Doom's source code was released, it became apparent that the code that displayed the face was in error. The programmers had used a greater than (">") sign instead of a less than ("<") sign. The code should have displayed the face whenever the player underwent a damaging event which left him or her with twenty fewer hit points. As it was, the code only displayed the face when the player gained more than twenty hit points during a damaging event - a rare occurence, most commonly trigged by picking up a large health kit whilst being badly hurt.


It was a very WTF moment when I saw it (I think I've only ever seen it once).
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
It was a very WTF moment when I saw it (I think I've only ever seen it once).


Unsurprisingly, I've never seen it until just now. NEAT!

Paging somebody to bring in screenshots of the first version of DooM to be shown to magazines What with the more sci-fi-y bent to it. Also the description of the plot specified that it was about FOUR player-characters.

Bonus points for screenshots of Marathon's various betas, including the one that was basically running on the Pathways Into Darkness-engine.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played all the marathon betas (they came with the Marathon Trilogy Boxset). I'm glad they changed it from that first version they had!



GRENDEL LIVES

This was the first beta, basically it was Pathways into Darkness in space. People expressed this and the beta was met with a cold reception at trade shows, so they ditched it and started work on a new engine...

Nevermind, can't find pics of the other betas.

As for DooM:



Quote:
Orignal room in E2M7 where the Space Marines were playing cards before all Hell broke loose.


I rememebr seeing the cards on the table when playing the beta, it was neat. There was also a locker room, which can be see in this Alpha video.



The more complex helmet HUD.

More screens here:

http://www.rome.ro/lee_killough/versions/betashots/doom01/index.shtml

On another note, I used to have a magazine featuring a preview of DOOM which featured a SCORE in the hud. Apart from that, it looked identical to the released version.

And here is a video showing you just how little E2M2 was changed from Tom Hall's original design:

Here.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew you'd come through. As for the cold reception at trade shows, I can now admit to being a part of that. My 13-year-old self came up to them at Macworld and said something like "this is supposed to be as good as Doom?". In retrospect, I was totally a dick!

At the next Macworld I was able to totally get schooled in LAN play on Mars Needs Women, so I guess, mission accomplished. The later beta looks somewhat close to the final game so it's not quite as much of a shock.

The Doom screenshots are exactly what I was looking for. In fact, I think somebody linked to a design document for doom a while back that went over what the early version of that game was supposed to be like. It must have been linked from here or IC or SB, or else I found it on some Doom fansite.


Now, if only I had a copy of Super Marathon...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't go to MacWorld expos because I lived in Australia Sad

Super Marathon is just Marathon 1 & 2 ported to the Pippin. I saw a copy once on ebay, but it went over $200 and I decided I didn't need it to complete my collection since I have both games anyway! I have my two Marathon Trilogy boxsets (one sealed).

Also, there were three (publicaly released) Marathon betas, not two!

The design document (written by Tom Hall) is called the DOOM BIBLE. It can be found in PDF form pretty easily. Doomworld probably has it (it has basically everything else DooM related) It's very interesting. DooM was going to be Daikatana!

All the DooM betas are widely available, too. Some are more interesting than others.

How are those Bungie videos coming along, by the way.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
All the DooM betas are widely available, too. Some are more interesting than others.

Search and you will find...

I'm pretty sure that one of those alphas or the beta won't work past a certain date. I'm not sure which one it is though. I found some DOS program that tricks it into thinking so but I can't recall the url of that particular page where you could get it. I think, I think, I think that I once heard that ZDoom at one time supported that jazz but that could have been a fabrication concocted by the devils in my head.

Interesting fact: the Lost Souls used to have either projectile or hitscan attacks, one of those ones.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
Hey Rero, do you that issue of Hyper (has MK3 on the cover I think) that had all those fake MK shots? Like a PYTHONALITY where a giant foot crushed the other player?


I must see that. Though in MK3, a giant foot does crush the other player; it's one of Jax's terrible Fatalities.

Back to Quake: the reason the game has four distinct episodes is because of the whole development fiasco. The communication within id at that time was so bad that everyone was designing completely different levels and working on various types of art. Thus, the Mayan-esque textures, the medieval textures, etc.

Oh fuck, now I want to skip work and play Saturn Quake all day.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, there were actually quite a few NON-BROWN textures in Quake. Wish they used some of them more, I loved the blue one. It's amazing how well the game turned out considering everything...

Damnit, now I gotta go play it again, too.

Thanks, JERKS.

Rero why aren't you talking more about doom, isn't it YOUR GAME like marathon is MY GAME?

Before we get off DooM and (back) on Quake, what are peoples thoughts on each doom episode? I love the miyamoto design of the first episode (it feels like Zelda sometimes) and the large maps with epic battles and even exploration in episode 3 are awesome, but episode 2 was a bit bland... I think because it was mostly Tom Halls stuff, before the nature of the game changed radically.

Also... DOUBLE KILL (forgot about the cyderdemon):



From Hyper, June 1995.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you say Miyamoto design, do you mean the 'if you see it you can get to it' approach that Eric-Jon was talking about?

I always thought Episode 1 was the best episode. I do like 2, though. I haven't played 3 but it's mostly based around subverting your expectations of the first two episodes, right? Like, collapsing bridges, doors that close forever, etc. I

Episode 4 as far as I can tell is retarded. The fact that the level names read like the tracklisting of a Cradle of Filth album doesn't help.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh sorry, I thought you were the one who said that earlier... the IF YOU CAN SEE IT approach is one of the things that made me ask him about it, yes. I should really dig up that interview I did with him, but I have no idea which issue it's in.

Actually, all the levels in episode 4 are named after passages in the King James version of the bible!

I don't think Episode 3 was really there to subvert your expectations, Episode 4 did that more, and DooM ][ even more so. Maybe I'll talk about it more tomorrow, I'm busy right now and also about to go to bed.

playing quake itt
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought there was something Nintendo-y about the way Quake rewards players who have an intimate knowledge of where all the items are and how best to use them. But I haven't properly played Doom recently.

Apparently the characters in Doom were based on 3D models made by the guy who did the special effects for the Robocop movies. Has anyone ever seen photographs of these models?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'm probably at about the same point in the game as you. I'm trying to just go through each level w/o saving, but most of the time I end up getting to one point and saving at about the 2/3 mark. Anyway, yeah, Door to Chthon was the first level to really make me feel like it was brilliantly laid out from start to finish.
Harveyjames wrote:
(Shaper that is a really useful list at the top of the thread there).

No problem, that was kind of my guilty reason for making this thread.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle, I was able to get the archive of movies, but QuickTime in OS X complains that it is not a valid movie file either. I'll try and get it open on a machine that can run classic to see what happens there. The odd thing is that it's not complaining about the codec not being found, but instead just saying "The file is not a movie file." Doh.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

late to the party a bit in this thread.
Harveyjames wrote:
Actually, there's a Mortal Kombat game which has an adventure mode just like that, where you roam the land doing Zelda-y things and when you meet an opponent you fight them in a round of Mortal Kombat. Needless to say it is fucking terrible.

This description reminds me a bit of "Gargoyle's Quest" on GB, which is actually quite decent.

I loved when i first found the page w/ all the DOOM alphas and betas. There was a similar page for Duke Nuke'em 3D. That one was interesting because it was more obvious how they started with 3D versions of the elements of the 2D games, like cans of soda.

Also, the mention of Tokyo Wars -- only played a few rounds of that but I'm unhappy that "Tank games" are such an under-represented genre. BattleTanx: Global Assault was probably the last great one, and that was the N64/PSX generation. Clone Wars had some elements of it, as did Mercenaries, and Star Fox: Assault, and Alien Front Online for DC woulda been a contender if it had a split screen mode.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So E2M3, 'The Crypt of Decay', is kind of a bitch to play. I've come within a whisker of the end a few times, but there are a few Romero cheap tricks which are really fucking with me- specifically, the 'corridor 'o' nail shooters' (which I seem to lose about half my health on each time through) right before the last battle.

I've pretty much mastered it, though. As seems to be customary, there's a nice little quad damage just tucked away in a corner right before you get to the two shamblers at the end, so it shouldn't be too hard to beat once I get round to playing it again. I found the Well of Wishes, too, but still can't seem to get into the portal to the secret level.

While there's nothing particularly clever going on in this level, it's pretty tight and always gives you a few alternative options to get to where you want to go, and seems to be themed around letting you get as many monster-on-monster fights going on as possible, since it's populated pretty densely by Hell Knights and Ogres. It's as ugly as the last Romero level, though. I've noticed his stuff tends to be laid out quite horizontally, too, as opposed to American McGee's map which was full of trapdoors and multiple levels.

My computer keeps resetting itself while I'm playing, which is a worry. It doesn't do that for anything else, like After Effects, so I wonder what's so special about EZQuake.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slonie wrote:
Cycle, I was able to get the archive of movies, but QuickTime in OS X complains that it is not a valid movie file either. I'll try and get it open on a machine that can run classic to see what happens there. The odd thing is that it's not complaining about the codec not being found, but instead just saying "The file is not a movie file." Doh.


I was just gonna record the screen, but then I remembered camstudio doesn't record my audio for some reason Sad

gate to cthon did the whole BAM A MONSTER BEHIND THE DOOR/SPAWNED BEHIND YOU trick too much for my tastes, by the by :/
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It didn't seem anywhere near as cheap as it does in Romero's levels, though. Romero's levels make Doom 3 look unpredictable.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm playing through his levels now, I haven't really found anything cheap. It's been pretty breezy so far, actually. I'm up to... uhhh the level after wizards manse.

I'm dissapointed that the first episode is the only one with a cool secret levels.

the other levels aren't really anything special and it's like why are they secret!

i like cool secret levels.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:

I'm dissapointed that the first episode is the only one with a cool secret levels.

the other levels aren't really anything special and it's like why are they secret!

i like cool secret levels.


You just reminded me (yes, this far into the thread) how cool even the difficulty/episode select map was. Damn, we used to even deathmatch on that map for some reason!

My first Quake I experience is with the UNAUTHORIZED Mac Port that some people made out of the (leaked?) linux source. This was quite a while before the official Mac port came out...Which I then played the snot out of. In both cases, the game was played with software renderer with pixel-doubling and scanlines. I think the first time I saw GLQuake was on a SGI Octane when a schoolmate took me on a tour of his dad's work (at SGI). Yeah, my Quake experience isn't totally normal. But I'll always see it as a software-rendered game in my memory!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I deathmatched in the difficulty/level select area too. I loved how you selected it all in-game!

It's also awesome how it changes once you get all the runes.

I played the game on a very weak system, so also had scanlines and everything. Still played the snot out of it, still loved it.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
gate to cthon did the whole BAM A MONSTER BEHIND THE DOOR/SPAWNED BEHIND YOU trick too much for my tastes, by the by :/

I never said anything about enemy placement, just about level layout. It's like two corkscrews on top of each other.

Also, EP2 is exceptionally frustrating. Every time I finish a level I don't feel like I have the energy to go to the next. I think it was The Ebon Fortress that really did me in for a while. The one where there's a death knight right below your spawn point basically. I got tired of wasting ammo trying to blow him up so when I finally beat the level my tactic was just to run down and grab the box of nails and go straight into the water.

A lot of the Episode 2 levels I have beaten just by sheer brute force and very instinctive planning (as in pop into a room, pop out, create plan, execute it in less than two seconds). They feel panicked any mildly confusing. The level layout makes it so that I would frequently happen upon where I needed to go next, but I don't know if this is a good thing or bad. I don't know what level I'm on right now, but I haven't touched the game much since Sunday.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
I was just like FUCK YEAH, BFG ON THE FIRST LEVEL AND THREE CYBERDEMONS THIS SHIT IS GONNA BE TIGHT

ALSO, HANGING KEENS ALL OVER THE FUCKING PLACE!!! ROCK ON

AND BARRELS.

LOTS OF BARRELS.


I made a bunch of Doom WADs back in the day, and I used a fucking shitty, shitty editor too. I can probably post some screengrabs of at least one of 'em, if anyone's interested.

Years and years before Columbine, I actually made a Doom WAD about infiltrating my school and feeding buckshot to my teachers. Stable!

Actually, it wasn't like that, yo. I just really wanted to recreate my school, because I was just learning the editor then. I forget what it was called, come to think of it. It had NO preview mode, though. Every time I wanted to see a change, I had to compile and save the WAD, then load it up on my blazing 486/33 with 4 ass-kicking megs of RAM. Nothing beats loading up your level for the 12th time only to see that you didn't draw a wall right, and the axis was off, and it was Hall of Mirrors hell time again.

Christ, I was so much more patient back then.
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lestrade, I'm totally fucking with you here. About three years prior to Columbine I made an RPG on the TI-86 and it was Zombie Teacher Killer. All the weapons were guns/knives. The location was School. The bosses were Teachers and the random enemies were Zombie Janitorial Staff. I used my school as a location because I was familiar with it, I used the teachers because it was easier than making up new names. I mean, I realized that this could be a problem so I solved it by adding the word Zombie to a lot of things. It was widely distributed at the school and one of my teachers even played it and enjoyed it! I was patient and somewhat creative, but the effort to make a new enviroment and name a bunch of things was more effort than I could muster at the time. I mean, that stuff was so familiar to me then.
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Lestrade
Bug Fister
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a great story. I like the subversion to avoid being suspected as a psychopath. Do you have screenshots of this?

I just realized: I made an entire, accurate map of the first house I lived in as a Doom WAD, years ago. Does that count as art?
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
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Joined: 14 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lestrade wrote:
Do you have screenshots of this?

Unfortuatly I have nothing related to it anymore. It's just one of those things I did because I wanted to see if I could. I made a few games for the TI-86 and made a lot of films in High School that are lost in the abyss and only stories at this point. I wish I had more of them honestly!
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"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"
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Pink Teddy Bear
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Joined: 24 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember modeling my house as a level in Duke Nukem 3D. That game had a pretty neat level editor.
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Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Cycle wrote:
gate to cthon did the whole BAM A MONSTER BEHIND THE DOOR/SPAWNED BEHIND YOU trick too much for my tastes, by the by :/

I never said anything about enemy placement, just about level layout. It's like two corkscrews on top of each other.

Also, EP2 is exceptionally frustrating. Every time I finish a level I don't feel like I have the energy to go to the next. I think it was The Ebon Fortress that really did me in for a while. The one where there's a death knight right below your spawn point basically. I got tired of wasting ammo trying to blow him up so when I finally beat the level my tactic was just to run down and grab the box of nails and go straight into the water.

A lot of the Episode 2 levels I have beaten just by sheer brute force and very instinctive planning (as in pop into a room, pop out, create plan, execute it in less than two seconds). They feel panicked any mildly confusing. The level layout makes it so that I would frequently happen upon where I needed to go next, but I don't know if this is a good thing or bad. I don't know what level I'm on right now, but I haven't touched the game much since Sunday.


I just played through the episode and I think I agree with you. I wonder if three and four will be much different.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, I made a massive design document for a Doom Level based on my school, too! The first level would recreate my walk to school, and all the people I would walk past were going to be there in exactly the places I normally saw them as I walked there, so Dean and Mark Blake were going to be by the bus stop.

The rocket launcher became a baseball bat gun, and the shotgun was a pellet gun. The troops and sargeants just became generic schookids of various ages, which would be scattered liberally through the levels, which were all the same map but with different item and monster placements to represent different periods of the school day. Doors would lock and unlock, too, so you'd only be able to get into the janitor's closet during third period, which of course had a super baseball bat gun in it.
Higher-tier enemies became specific hard kids from my school, like Leroy Spence and Luke Holburn. So yeah, basic revenge fantasy stuff.
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Cycle
Mac daddy
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Joined: 08 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was too ambitious... I wanted to create WADs that mapped my entire city, and you could go into stors and by guns and you had to clear buildings of zombies for money to buy more weapons and ammo and yeah.

Instead I managed to make a box full of hanging keens!
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Winged Assassins (1984)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The greatest ever WAD that I made ever I dubbed "Son of Nuts". It regularly crashed the game but what else would you expect of a level inspired by nuts.wad.
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Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you will have to explain what nuts.wad was all about!
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Winged Assassins (1984)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



10,000 enemies!

EDIT: That's just the first room. The second one is entirely Arch Viles, Masterminds and Cyberdemons.
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Cycle
Mac daddy
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OH SNAP.

it was possible to finish the first level?!
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