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many more stories are yet to be written (knytt stories)
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:39 am    Post subject: many more stories are yet to be written (knytt stories) Reply with quote

after completing his homage to 16-bit game design, within a deep forest, niklas "nifflas" nygren created a wonderfully solid platforming engine and proceeded to use it to make a totally unchallenging game about exploring a quiet videogame landscape. knytt might be the best game about exploration i've ever played, and distills so much of what's magic about videogames that i consider nifflas one of the most skilled intuitive developers working today.

nifflas has released a level editor for knytt, titled "knytt stories", which will allow anyone to take advantage of his beautiful platforming engine. it comes with an episode by nifflas - "the machine" - and four more are available from his website. guess what? they're all amazing.

"the machine" features a huge world which gradually opens up to the player as she gains abilities in perfect 16-bit style. "a strange dream" reminds me of the dizzy games. "an underwater adventure" is a straightforward adventure with the cunning level design of within a deep forest (and is in fact a retelling of that game). "sky flower" is a marvelous and perfect setpiece, and "this level is unfinished" is a clever exercize.

but probably the most exciting thing about knytt stories is the promise of new episodes from other players. look, i made my own! drag it onto the "install level" screen to install it! it is short and straightforward. i'm pleased with how it came out, and if i can do it, you probably can too!
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just beat it. Neato.

I might mess around with it later! Probably not today, my family is in town, but you know. If I do make something, it is guaranteed to be garish and absurd.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah neato!

I'm just at the beginning stages of doing my own thing, which will have a decrepit industrial ghost town in the middle of an uninhabitable wasteland. Or maybe it will be a spooky-ass forest in the dead of night which invokes a feeling of frostbitten grimness and evil robots.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also really impressed with Knytt Stories. For some reason, I didn't play either WADF or Knytt too extensively. But I found Stories very compelling.

After playing through dessgeega's world last night (with its punishing vertical jumps) and reading over this tutorial, I started work on a world of my own. I can never resist an editor. I'm not sure exactly what I'm going to do yet, though.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, i never much liked nifflas' games very much compared to, say, seiklus, until now. but i had a lot of fun with the machine, and the fact that it's modular impresses me very much.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is a new one.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The intro font reminds me of Taito and the tiles reminds me of Wonderboy 3, so naturally I love it.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, I can't figure out how the level editor works. Whenever I place floors, they entirely disappear when I test the level. Is there some kind of secret to make things solid?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swimmy: be sure to save right before testing levels. Those two yellow/blue bars below the main screen are basically there to tell you if you've changed anything since you last saved.

There's a tutorial here. It's really useful, but some experimentation is necessary to figure out exactly what everything does. There are keyboard shortcuts, too!

I'm working on something kind of aimless. It's coming together fairly nicely, but the progression isn't very controlled yet.

I'd like to see something that utilizes the way that the player character glitches in and out of tiles when they're not placed properly from screen to screen.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are eight layers you can draw to. walls and floors need to be on layer 3 if you want the player to be able to walk on them!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so have any of you found any good levels to download? i wasn't overly impressed with the 3rd party pack that's no the main knytt stories page. dess, both of your levels are far better than any of those!
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's another story by nifflas on the official website! just click on "other stories". it's called "gustav's daughter" and it's short and hard and neat.

i've tried downloading a couple stories from the official forums, but they're not very good. my next story should be out this week, though.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My story will probably never be out due to me adding more and more screens to it. Maybe I should cut some out and refine my design.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've been playing through the stories nifflas lists as favorites. a walk at night is perfect in tone, and it's impressive to see an urban landscape handled in knytt stories. (rain is quite charming too.) it waits is a really effective lovecraftian horror, and the only story i've seen so far to use walking in a compelling way.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is my third story. it's somewhat in the fashion of prince of persia.

also, i updated my first to make waterfalls appear over juni rather than under.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm putting my world aside and started on something new which has an even more minimal visual design. I'm not planning on using colour in this one either.



No doubt it's going to be filled with small platforms and blind falls into black voids of death.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make sure the background you have is black, and not navy.

That looks pretty neat. I like jumps that seem blind but actually have all you need to get through without having extra (I remember a couple moments of that sort in An Underwater Adventure).

I haven't booted into windows in more than a week, so I haven't progressed on my level yet Sad
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this might be my favorite knytt story so far.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holy shit, it's like there's no reason to keep making any more.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

station 07 is a well-planned, brooding little adventure.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

also leaves a pretty good opening for a sequel. I'm hoping the author gets cracking on that.

PS dess, I really enjoyed under the crack, and torchlight was very cute.

Haven't finished the oubliette yet. (Something about being slammed into by spiky walls...)

I spent about forty-five minutes roaming around in Trek last night. Very simple, visually, but the widgets have sometimes cute things to say. The secret areas were super easy to find though.

I'm working on Return to Luminous City at the moment. It has a lot of space to explore and is, thus far, quite good.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

return to luminous city isn't perfect (and hard mode is unplayable), but i like how the world seems very linear at first and then opens as you collect power-ups and begin reexploring.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe I reached an impasse`... and I'm on hard mode.

FUCK YOU, UMBRELLA!

I'll give it another five minutes' worth of re-exploration, but I imagine it's back to the Oubliette for me afters.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hm, just beat it on hard.

got both endings too. i liked it, though there's a stretch at the very end that can be very, very frustrating.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



EDIT: HA, GOT YOU YOU SPIKY BASTARD
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dark sky of wish mountain has many frustrating design decisions, but manages some very nice atmosphere in places.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, I downloaded this thing but I don't think it installed. The installer would launch and then nothing would happen. Am I missing something?? ? ? ? ?

(??)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just crashed the editor by choosing "Erase screen" while I was on a screen that didn't yet have anything in it.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if station 07 channels metroid (an obvious influence on knytt), then temple of the sun channels ico. it's a simple exploration of an expansive structure.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

david, try this.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
if station 07 channels metroid (an obvious influence on knytt), then temple of the sun channels ico. it's a simple exploration of an expansive structure.

That was sweet.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's a new version of knytt stories, and a new level to demonstrate the added features.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

all of my levels have been updated with descriptions and minor changes (including one shaper has been waiting for). download links in this thread and on my website.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yay!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You go, girl!
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, it was inevitable. cute but the joke wears thin pretty quickly. it is illuminating to see how much knytt owes to metroid, though. i'd say knytt and knytt stories are the natural outcome of metroid's design philosophy.

a new world is an unbounded map to explore, similiar to trek (which has been around for a while). these games have no goals other than the discovery of the many neat little easter eggs the author has planted. while trek is fairly gridlike, a new world is much more organic, and some people might enjoy it.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nifflas is no longer updating knytt stories.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

His reasoning is sound. A bit of a shame though, to see a project devised for long-term supplementation go down relatively so soon. I was hoping he'd knock up a few more maps himself.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

though save points are spread a little too thin and it's often impossible to see where the ground is, i like the phantom apparatus a lot. i'm fond of the way the map is arranged, and how it gradually opens in surprising ways, as well as the overall tone.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just played a whole ton of Knytt Levels, and liked a couple of them. 'This game is unfinished', 'The Machine', some others. Don't Eat the Mushroom was some kind of genius. But I grew to realise there was a lot of stuff in these levels that I thought was unnecessary: namely, I decided I was tired of games that relied so much on lock-and-key level design. That shit was fun like the first couple of times I saw it in a Zelda game, but even when you're playing stuff like Wind Waker you start to just wish they'd let you do things in any order you liked. Otherwise, what's the point of letting you explore in the first place? Knytt represents an opportunity to break free of cliches like these. but most of these level designers haven't taken it.

Second I decided it's no fun having to put up with a bunch of stupid creatures that fire dumb crap you at all the time. If I was playing through this game as Duke Nukem, fine, but when you're just a poor little thing that can only jump and climb and dies in one hit it doesn't really make much sense to have them in there, especially since they break up the flow of the game, making you repeat areas when you'd really much rather get on with the task of running, jumping, climbing and figuring shit out.

Third- a minor point, but I decided that there's little point in not giving you at least the long jump, the climb and the run from the beginning, as it's inevitable you're going to get them early on anyway since the game's no fun without them.

I saved Dessgeega's levels until last, because I had a feeling they were going to be the best. Which they were! Her levels don't do any of the annoying things I listed above. Not only this, but they're all based around unique and clever concepts. I loved all of them.

Only changes I'd suggest is to have a different piano theme at the start of the oubliette- it's perfect at the end when the player realises they now have the means to escape, but it's way too uplifting for the beginning. So I would take it out or replace it if possible.

Also I think the colours at the start of Torchlight are too saturated- usually rain tends to wash everything out and makes things look grey and sad. If you did that, it'd provide more of a contrast with the warm tones of the torches, too. This level was really clever, by the way. While I'm talking about colour I thought the blue of the waterfalls seemed out of place in Under The Crack. I think you should make them greyer/greener, as they don't fit in with the rest of the colour scheme.

The Oubliette is awesome. I loved the ending, Dess, I think your prose is a perfect match for your level design. All in all I'm seriously impressed by these levels. I think you should make a lot more.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I crazy? I can't find either delete or undo on this level editor. How do I get rid of a tile I've put down?

P.S. Dess, I did some example colour schemes so you can see what I mean.


I wonder if it would be better if the rain was more torrential, too.

I was messing around with the ambience on that level and I gained a new appreciation for the cleverness of the sound design. I like the way the sound cuts out when you get to the third screen which is completely black except for the torchlight. It makes sense in the context of the environment, plus it furthers 'narrative' in making the player feel like they've found shelter, but more importantly it establishes the torchlight, the only visible thing on the screen, as some kind of visual leitmotif. Is that what you intended or am I talking pretentious drivel?


Last edited by Harveyjames on Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harveyjames wrote:
While I'm talking about colour I thought the blue of the waterfalls seemed out of place in Under The Crack. I think you should make them greyer/greener, as they don't fit in with the rest of the colour scheme.


well the thing is i have no control over the color of the water. there are like three different colors of water available, and i picked the one that looks silverish on my screen. but yeah, i would pick a more gameboyish color if i had the choice.

there's no undo. ridiculous, huh? to get rid of tiles you have to select the empty tile and draw over the ones you want to get rid of. you can right click a tile to pick it up, so just right click an empty space and then drag it over the tiles you want gone.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding Torchlight, I tried the dark water which has no glow on it on the opening screen, and it seemed to fit the look of the level ok. While you posted that reply, I was busy editing my previous post (see above).

Hmm. Is there no way to replace the waterfall graphics?
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
nifflas is no longer updating knytt stories.

While at first it seemed like a cop out, when he really got down to the reasons he was stopping it made sense. A bit disappointing considering that Knytt Stories is probably his best work, but I'd rather not see it get worse.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, from his last post:

"I decided to release KE as it is, rather than throwing it in the trash can. Version 1.0 is out."
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harveyjames wrote:
I was messing around with the ambience on that level and I gained a new appreciation for the cleverness of the sound design. I like the way the sound cuts out when you get to the third screen which is completely black except for the torchlight. It makes sense in the context of the environment, plus it furthers 'narrative' in making the player feel like they've found shelter, but more importantly it establishes the torchlight, the only visible thing on the screen, as some kind of visual leitmotif. Is that what you intended or am I talking pretentious drivel?


that was the intention, yep.

the outside world is actually built using the same graphics and effects of the tutorial world, so that going inside should be like going from the familiar to being plunged into darkness.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's clever shit. I think level design is really your true calling.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

riku island is a very pretty little adventure that asks you to do little more than explore a few little environments, each with its own little rewards. there's some needless soliloquy and a lot of getting stuck on the environment, but all in all it's an experience that asks nothing more of you than to enjoy it, which is something i'd like to see more of from user-created stories.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man Knytt Stories is kind of what I wish all videogames were like. I love the idea that I can load it up, jump about and go WHEEE and have the whole thing finished in the time it takes to read a comic book.

HEY WAIT

WHAT ARE YOU DOING PLAYING COMPUTER GAMES, YOU HAVE SCHOOLWORK TO BE DOING, YOUNG MADAM
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreeing so hard ITT
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