The Gamer's Quarter

SuperWes · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:01 am Post subject: The Crying Game

Being TGQ, this topic title could mean one of pretty much damn near anything, but in this case, it's about David Jaffee's failed PSP game, "heartland." Did you know that this was the name? Neither did I! But I just found out, and slowly more and more information has been coming out about it. A few months ago he let slip that it was canceled, a bit after that he let slip the name, and this juicy Entertainment Weekly interview has the goods:

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

I'll just quote Jaffe from in his own words from his own blog:

dhex · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:03 am Post subject:

i dunno i think it sounds cool but whatevs.
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dizzyjosh · . Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 64

every time jaffe opens his mouth (metaphorically, i guess?), i actually get more respect for him. that being said, leading the way in political debate/discussion/rhetoric/polemic isn't usually how you win people over, it's by taking simple points and bashing them over the head with it, so i think it would've been interesting to see a "MUST PLAY" title with such a stance.

alas though too i can see why it would've been a complete and utter fucking trial to actually develop.

SuperWes · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:10 am Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:23 am Post subject:

SuperWes · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:27 am Post subject:

Scratchmonkey · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439

"People who like shooting people in games" != "People who want to shoot people in real life", Jack Thompson.

Seriously, I know a ton of people who buy all the Call of Duty, Rainbow Six, etc. games and none of them are particularly "army dudes".

dhex · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:41 am Post subject:

i just like the perspective. meaning the viewpoint. meaning, like, how you look at stuff in the game. the only real message you get from FPS games - any of them, i look in your direction maoist game critics of all stripe - is that getting shot doesn't hurt that much.

from what i understand, this is a stone-cold lie. then again, we learn that from all games, don't we? nothing really hurts.

though if i moved somewhere with reasonable, non-constitution shredding gun laws, i could see myself getting into that pretty hardcore. i have decent hand-eye coordination still and it hurts less than being choked out.
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

You guys really need to hang out in an EB/GS at peak hours around the check out counter and watch what people buy and say.

While Wes is super-stereo-typing to a bit of an extream, why do you think that those terrible SOCOM games sell so well and have dozens of sequels? That is the main audience for these games, like it or not.

This doesn't mean that they want to shoot people in real life though.

Also, I still don't like the first person perspective.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

dhex · Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:38 pm Post subject:

dude, i have hung out in an eb games. a lot of wii talk and some analysis of how the ps3 totally sucked.

nary a copy of socom in sight.
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Scratchmonkey · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439

Most of the folks I know who are into SOCOM are into God of War as well, which usually translates to "I'm 19 and shooting things/beating the crap out of things in a videogame is fun" and you could talk about all sorts of things like misplaced aggression or the nature of our modern society blah blah blah, I don't think it's really indicative of their political leanings or whether they think that real-life violence is awesome.

I mean, for some of them it is, to paint with a broad brush makes me uneasy.

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

ryan · . Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 999

Having hung out at plenty of EBs in my day, I just can't say that I've really ran across this.

Have you spent time playing SOCOM to even really know the community? Battlefield? For online play, it's more about teamwork and the community than "look how awesome this rocket blows up!" I'm sure those really into the military buy them, of course, but that's like pointing at someone who likes sports and thinking it's a surprising or informative link that they buy the yearly MLB releases. To think that they sale to some large paramilitary subset of the population is a bit much.
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Come to me, Mordel. We shall depart.

SuperWes · Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:36 am Post subject:

ryan · . Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 999

Yeah, I see what you're saying. Jeff had a pretty good point as well, though I think the game could've been pretty interesting. Even if someone does/doesn't like Bush, if he was clever enough, though people making a point about politics are rarely subtle, a much finer point could've been made rather than a broad ranting.

I wonder how many people would understand that an upsidedown American flag means danger/help?
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Come to me, Mordel. We shall depart.

dhex · Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:47 am Post subject:

helicopterp · . Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia

As part of a Patrick Swayze series! Sequels can include Dirty Dancing and Donnie Darko. Somebody put Jeff Minter on the project.
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Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one.

dhex · Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:53 am Post subject:

you mean roadhouse and next of kin, right?

(next of kin is fucking amazing, btw. roadhouse, not so much.)
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helicopterp · . Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia

We'll have to settle for a quintology.
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Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one.

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

Cycle · Mac daddy Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767

I would have liked to see what he came up with, but I agree with the reasons why he dropped it. He seems like a smart guy, I can't stand his games though. Well, I would have loved God of War if it was like three hours long... but yeah. I would have been interested in seeing some of it.
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ryan · . Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 999

FortNinety · Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:50 pm Post subject:

Sorry to bump and old, and seemingly dead, thread. But I just had to add that I really would have liked to see this Hearland game happen, and once again, I don't see the hate that Jaffe gets. And, no offense to some folks around here, but I almost get the sense that if Kojima had said and done the same things, there would be none of the vitrol.

I also love how his games gets all this love and adoration from the intellectual set when, basically, its just a war game. Yeah, it pushes the fourth wall and all that jazz, but... its a war game. I just don't get how a war game that tries to be arty gets acclaim and a action game that just tries to be an action game gets all this venom.

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Threads never die at TGQ!

SuperWes · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:36 am Post subject:

dhex · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:15 am Post subject:

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Wow, ok.

I don't have the time or energy to argue this long enough. But I would say that the only thing that the cut scenes in MGS games are worse is because they can get excessive. If anything it's not the cut scenes that are the problems as much as the codec conversations.

ANYWAYS, to compare getting a rocket launcher to Icarus wings is stupid. If you’re going to do this kind of comparison you should compare getting a sniper rifle to the Sniper Wolf (shit did I remember the right name) fight. Or the sniper rifle to the scene at the bottom of the Big Oil Rig (whatever its called in MGS2). Or the Sniper Rifle to The End fight. Hell, it’s like getting the rocket launcher for the fight against the FUCKING HARRIER JET.

I’m not trying to say that MGS is better at these (even though if you were to ask my opinion I would say that it was), what I’m trying to say is that MGS only loses on the fact that the story can get a little drawn out at times and perhaps a little lost in it’s own pretensions. Implementing gameplay into story has been done well in every MGS title: integration, mic-gun use, and hell even cigarette use.

The only real examples of story combined with gameplay in God of War are boss fights. To say that MGS does boss fights any worse is another silly statement. To say that GoW feels way more epic in its battles, well I would agree with you on most instances (Shagohod!).

The point isn’t that I’m trying to argue toe for toe on you with comparisons, I’m just trying to say that you’re letting the occasionally overly-verbose sections of MGS cloud your memory of the really awesome way that MGS does exactly what you say it’s doing poorly.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

dhex · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:34 am Post subject:

yeah, but is any of it really above 10th grade fanfic, as you mentioned above?

again, i haven't played all of his stuff (i quit about halfway through MGS, it was getting too corny and just wasn't working for me) but at least from what i've read on wikipedia (father of lies), it's all pretty standard fare.

which isn't bad for a game, i mean. it's probably a strength, since gameplay tells better stories than what's actually written anyway.
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ryan · . Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 999

Come on, guys: Linda Hunt.

I mean, Linda freaking Hunt. Her narration makes me melt.
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Come to me, Mordel. We shall depart.

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

dhex · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:54 am Post subject:

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

dhex · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:02 am Post subject:

yeah but if i already know what's going to happen, you know? and ultimately, console games kinda piss me off at this point for reasons i've already explained or that actually can't be explained. it's a frisson thing i guess, like, why i like subarachnoid space but can't fucking stand acid mothers temple? (actually i think i can blame japan on that one too) stalker's broken-assness is too compelling to drop for some foreign country's dirty mental laundry, you know?

ultimately though there's a problem as i'm running out of people i could just give a ps2 to which is a bit worrisome. also a friend of mine gave me rule of rose the other day and i'm afraid to start it after watching you guys beat up on it. she said she was having some fun but is too busy with law school/playing final fantasy 1 to finish it.

that has nothing to do with anything.
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

For what it's worth, Toups thinks Rule Of Rose is one of the best survival horror games.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

SuperWes · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:13 am Post subject:

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Wow, you really need to take those blinders off Wes. Those are a bunch of rediculous statments.

How is traveling through Hades and more imporatant to the story than going through Outer Heaven? What difference does it make if the Patriots have anything to do with Snake's history anyways? Why does emerging from a hole at the end of a pretty straight forward section of levels mean that it's implemented well into the story?

Sorry, I'm calling bullshit here. Most of God of War's story is completly irrelevent to it's gameplay. Also:

Mr Mustache · . Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 167 Location: Queens

Jaffe and Kojima are just the videogame equivalent of directors. I would guess that they hire others to do the "writing".

Also, the prospect of 30 minute cutscenes in a medium based on interactivity is a horribly off-putting notion.
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Straight up

SuperWes · Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject:

Tablesaw · . Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 303 Location: LACAUSA

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

Anti-war people are idiots.

Warfare fetishists are idiots.

Idiot game designers making idiot games with idiot sub-text are not doing the medium any favours.

Generally, all of you can fuck right off.

Don't like it? Cry some more.

Christ, living in a Western world where the apotheosis of emotionality is crying and hugging. Jesus bloody wept.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:22 am Post subject:

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

dhex · Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:38 am Post subject:

FortNinety · Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject:

Well, this thread has become all sorts of exciting, hasn't it?!

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Tablesaw · . Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 303 Location: LACAUSA

dmauro · . Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 303 Location: Brooklyn