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Nana Komatsu
weak sauce
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 1293
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 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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If you look at the big titles list for the PS3, it's almost all predominately sequels (and those sequels are usually up to 4 or higher!). It makes me very sad.
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| JasonMoses wrote: | | Quote: | | for sheer breadth of excellent home ports of fantastic arcade games, the pc-engine's library wins. |
Every import PS2 game I own is an arcade port of some kind. I don't know if this is relevant or not. |
my entire ps2 library is arcade ports + rez. (and, now, god hand.)
most of my ps2 arcade ports are of games that were in arcades when the pc-engine was being supported. so are my pce arcade ports.
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Shapermc wrote: | | Also, Microsoft has done a pretty smart thing with grabbing the original creators of FF from Mistwalker (right?) and having them make more original content. Videogames need breaths of fresh air, especially during new consoles. Sony is doing the least of all three consoles for new IPs. On top of that they're the most expensive, and bloated of the consoles. It's going to be tough to do what the PS2 did. |
You kind of don't want to like Microsoft, but I have to admit both the Xbox and 360 made decisions that I would have made, if I was trying to break into the market; despite the oversized original controller, it took the best of the previous generation's ideas, 4 ports in the main unit... even the idea of using commodity PC hardware was kind of good, though the resulting hardware is big and ugly. Plus I'm not into online gaming so much but the whole Xbox live thing is worlds beyond what the other guys are doing...
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| kirkjerk wrote: | | You kind of don't want to like Microsoft, but I have to admit both the Xbox and 360 made decisions that I would have made, if I was trying to break into the market |
Bill Gates loves the Xbox/360 because "for once he gets to be the good guy."
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-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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SuperWes
Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3725
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| kirkjerk wrote: | | Which two? |
They are:
Ico
SotC
Hot Shots Golf 3
Jak and Daxter
Jak 2
Sly Cooper Series
Mojib Ribbon
Mark of Kri
Gran Turismo 3/4
Singstar
Buzz
EyeToy
War of the Monsters
Frequenct
Amplitude
Twisted Metal Black
Socom
God of War 1&2
Rogue Galaxy
Ratchet and Clank series (maybe?)
Killzone (maybe?)
Dark Cloud 1 & 2 (maybe?)
Damn. Seems like a lot more like only one or two? And even then, it seems kind of odd to think that either Ico or SotC matter more to the PS2 than God of War or Hot Shots Golf, doesn't it? Even if you do like them a lot it's hard to deny the appeal of every single other one of these. I kinda feel like the PS2 is where Sony's First Party lineup was defined.
-Wes
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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oh, wes.
i remember having a conversation about the eyetoy being the kernel of the idea that became the wii remote. during gdc, maybe?
i hate twisted metal: black because i get links for it whenever i websearch metal black.
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Frequency and Amplitude are Harmonix, dude.
Also, good job on missing the point.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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SuperWes
Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3725
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| Shapermc wrote: | | Frequency and Amplitude are Harmonix, dude. |
Sony published them, so you have to consider that these games may not have existed without them.
| Shapermc wrote: | | Also, good job on missing the point. |
I think you're missing the point. Having a great lineup is about more than just having a few of the greatest games. If that were the case, the N64 and GameCube could be considered to have some of the greatest lineups of all time, and that's certainly not the case.
A platform needs diversity. It needs to offer something for everybody, and most importantly, a very good something for the people they're offering it to. It's why games like Viva Pinata, Kameo, and Banjo Kazooie aren't a waste of Microsoft's money even if they don't quite make back their investment. Being able to say, "look, now there's a reason for someone other than 20 something men to buy our system."
Sony knows this. It's why Ico and SotC were made despite not really being the biggest sellers. They're made so that small, but important, sects of gamers like us pretentious motherfuckers can point to the system and say, "the PS2 has a great lineup."
A few years ago I went back to Indianapolis to visit my best friend from high school. He was hanging out with his family that weekend, and they were having a lazy barbecue kind of day. The whole time, his father and his father's best friend Lloyd were hanging out in the sun room playing Gran Turismo 3. It was strange because I'd never seen his father play a videogame before in my life.
They were both really, really good at the game. Well-practiced for sure, and I couldn't compete at all, even when I would choose a car that should definately win without question.
I asked him when and why he got into games and he said that he didn't realize that games had gotten so refined - so realistic. He'd tried a few other games and just wasn't interested. He didn't want to live out unrealistic fantasies, he wanted to do real-life things that he could never do because of something like cost, or danger. He liked feeling like he was driving expensive cars.
When someone enjoys your hobby for some reason that you don't understand it's really hard to criticize them for it. You want the hobby to grow, and you want other people to experience the same joy from it that you do, so I didn't say anything, but I'll have to admit that I thought it was a shame that their PS2 hadn't even had a copy of God of War inside.
The PS2 as a system has a much, much better lineup because games like Frequency, Mark of Kri, Gran Turismo, NBA 2007, Jak and Daxter, and Killzone mean that it's able to appeal to a broader audience. It's a great system because there's something good for everybody.
Hot Shots Golf is far more important to the PS2 than Ico/SotC was. Same with Singstar. Hot Shots Golf sold the PS2 to the entire country of Japan and Singstar became a national craze in Europe (If the internet is to be believed).
You can suggest a PS2 to pretty much anybody and be guaranteed they'll be happy with it. The same can't be said about any other system. That's why it's got such a good lineup, and Sony's First Party games definitely play a part in that distinction.
-Wes
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helicopterp
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Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 1435
Location: Philadelphia
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:02 am Post subject: |
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No, you missed the point, Wes.
I can't really disagree with your analysis of the system's popularity, but I think Shaper's point was about what made the PS2's library great for him, which happens to be Ico/SotC and the third-party stuff (if I can be allowed to step up and speak for him here). And this is in a thread about the peoples' personal favorite current-gen game. A list of 20+ entries that may include games that enthuse a lot of different people on different continents is missing a couple of points in this discussion.
Also, within your argument: I am under the impression that Shadow of the Colossus actually sold pretty well. It isn't nearly as niche as Ico in terms of how much of the market it managed to reach.
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| helicopterp wrote: | | I am under the impression that Shadow of the Colossus actually sold pretty well. It isn't nearly as niche as Ico in terms of how much of the market it managed to reach. |
If you just look at the installed base of systems at the time of release for both games, you'll find that it's a similar percentage of games sold. ICO came out when the console was still pretty new where SotC came out after the console was practically toaster of the entertainment center. So, while one sold better than the other it's most likely related to installed base rather than anything else.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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So, I just read that Devil May Cry 4 is going to be on the 360 and PC as well.
I think this is important to the conversation at hand.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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simplicio
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Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 1091
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| dessgeega wrote: | oh, wes.
i remember having a conversation about the eyetoy being the kernel of the idea that became the wii remote. during gdc, maybe? |
tell me about this conversation? I always thought it was Wario Ware Twisted.
| SuperWes wrote: | | You can suggest a PS2 to pretty much anybody and be guaranteed they'll be happy with it. |
I would change that to "any gamer," I think. The DS is the closest to an "anybody" system as we've come, and I wouldn't even be able to sell my parents on that. (To date, the only game my father's ever played is Myst, and as that was a cooperative effort with myself and my sister, so I think he was striving for something "educational." My parents are the sticks by which I shall always measure gaming's total acceptance by society.)
Last edited by simplicio on Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan
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| Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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it was the idea of a game that you play with your body, by making naturalistic motions. the eyetoy's webcam wasn't a successful implementation of that idea. but, i suggested, perhaps the wii is?
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| simplicio wrote: |
I would change that to "any gamer," I think. The DS is the closest to an "anybody" system as we've come, and I wouldn't even be able to sell my parents on that. (To date, the only game my father's ever played is Myst, and as that was a cooperative effort with myself and my sister, so I think he was striving for something "educational." My parents are the sticks by which I shall always measure gaming's total acceptance by society.) |
I dunno, I thought Wes made a pretty good case about the "one game PS2" -- Gran Turismo, or I've seen the same thing for a lot of Sports games, like Madden, or whatever the hell soccer game Europeans like, or you hear about the weird popularity of fishing games, etc. Activity based, sometimes wish-fufillment, "simulations" of one breed or another.
Sometimes this is supplemented w/ kids movie tie-in games, so they'll have Gran Turismo and "Shrek" or "Chicken Little". Which is a bit closer to "gamer" gaming, but not all that much.
I don't know what sells a DS to a non-gamer, except maybe Brain Age for old people.
Maybe that'll be one of the biggest curses of the PS3 pricepoint; it's well out of the "well I'll just by it for this one thing" range. (Different than the Killer App that will sell a system to a gamer) The Wii Sports bundle capitalizes on this sweet spot.
Another outgrowth of this is the "10 in ones", like all the Pac-Man games, or sometimes semi-original tie-in content, like Sponge Bob or Star Wars. I've heard those sell like hot cakes too.
And those are getting more sophisticated... I think I saw a Sky Mall catalog w/ say an inflatable Jet Ski a kid could sit on w/ the corresponding game, kind of like 'Hang On" in the arcade during days of yore. Kind of pushing into the virtual space the Wii is looking to grab.
Anyway, that big list of PS2 games really gives me more respect for Sony than I had prior - especially the lack of sequels. But it's a little tempered by their not being much consistency of soul between the various lines, Sony is obviously (I think) just a kind of umbrella publisher.
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