The Gamer's Quarter

TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

All this talk makes me want to get Ratchet and Clank, now. When I first saw it, I immediately thought "Jet Force Gemini."

. . . . .

In ^TOLLMASTER^'s twisted world, this is a Very Good Thing.

SuperWes · Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 8:22 am Post subject:

Skip the first one if you don't see yourself playing through all three games.

-Wes
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

To continue an old vein from this thread I found this: 'Making a Case for Short Games'.

I have not read it yet, but it seems to state some good points about game length in the synopsis.

TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Lestrade · Posted: Thu May 26, 2005 9:59 am Post subject:

wourme · . Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia

Topic 1: SRPGs

I've been looking for a new one of these since Final Fantasy Tactics. I had thought Disgaea would be the one, but I tried it and was put off by its attempts at humor. Perhaps I judged it too quickly. I never reached a battle, unless those penguins count. Anyway, I liked how FFT took itself seriously, even if some aspects were unintentionally funny.

Last weekend, I was on the verge of starting FFT again, but I thought that there must be some other SPRG out there that I'd like. After some research, I narrowed it down to Phantom Brave and Growlanser: Generations. In the end, I went with Growlanser and I'm really enjoying it. After reading this thread, I'll probably get Phantom Brave as well. It's cheap enough to risk it.

Topic 2: Game Length

How long a game lasts isn't really a consideration for me when judging its quality. Some games leave me wanting more, for sure, but that's just because they are excellent, not because they are too short. Rez is a great example of this.

One thing I really can't stand is when a game is "artificially" (for lack of a better word) extended. I've never played a game with random dungeons, but the very idea that they exist annoys me. I'm not sure why it is seen as a positive thing when a game tries to force you to play through again to get a better/"real" ending or some sort of bonus. I have played some games through more than once, but none of them were the the type that offers anything extra for doing so. The game itself is the reward.

I have to mention one exception to this: Shadow of Destiny. This game really deserves to be played through a few times. But that's the very nature of the game, not something that feels tacked on.

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

You should watch Disgaea's attract mode.

dessgeega · Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 6:23 pm Post subject:

JasonMoses · . Joined: 15 Oct 2004 Posts: 407

wourme · . Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia

dessgeega · Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2005 2:49 am Post subject:

if you've never played a fire emblem game, the first gba title (the seventh in the series) is a good place to start. since it was the first game released in north america (the first most western gamers would play) it features an extensive introduction to the game's mechanics. once you've played through that, you can pick up any game in the series and understand it.
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TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

I've been playing Final Fantasy X lately, and the short version of the story goes like this: I hate airships.

The long version is thus: after a certain point in the game, your "pilgrimage" ends, and you get free rein over where you go next. The problem with this is that the game loses its "legendary quest" feel. The entire game, you feel like you're a part of something, but you lose it at the end when the game expects you to find chocobos and race them, or spend time leveling up in the Omega Ruins, or find the "super" summons, or get the legendary weapons. Beowulf was just given his sword, he didn't have to ride a fucking bird around for hours to get it. The problem is, if I just keep going with the plot, I'll be a) losing a part of the gameplay "experience" and b) probably be underleveled for the final bosses.

Why I bring this up is because I think it's interesting that, in contrast, games that don't have this "legendary quest" feeling, and instead are freeform, are ones that I typically enjoy. To use an example from this thread, I enjoy Dark Cloud 2 primarily because of the freedom it offers. You can go fishing if you don't feel like leveling up your weapons, or work on your town if you're not in the mood for dungeons. In fact, I hope Dark Cloud 3 will have even more stuff to do, even if it means that less time is spent on the combat system. WIth this in mind, I'm willing to put out a theory on games:

1. A game can be either freeform, giving the player the opportunity to decide from choices on what to do, or it can "drive" the player along one course or one set of possiblities.

2. A good game knows well which choice it makes, and continues with that choice, in order to not disturb the "feel" of the game.

I'd like some counterexamples. In other words, prove me wrong! Give me a good game where there is a sudden shift from being on a set path to having absolute freedom. The reason I put this in this thread is because I believe many peoples' problems with game length may be because there is a change such as this one, while shorter games have no time for such a change. A lot of people love FF6, but love either the WoB or the WoR, for instance, and that was a "longer" game.

2.

Mister Toups · Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:28 pm Post subject:

TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

wourme · . Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia

I think that Dragon Warrior 3 and 4 did a good job of alternating between linear and freeform structure. Of course, that's just one of the countless things those games did well.

Speaking of Final Fantasy, I had a strange experience with FInal Fantasy 9. It took me three years to beat it. I was always very impressed while playing, but it just never held my interest in the long term. I have never figured out exactly why. I played through all the other FF games pretty much non-stop. (Well, except for X2 and 11. Not going near those ones.)

Also, I bought Phantom Brave the other day because of this thread. Well, and because it was only USD20 new. I'll try it as soon as I'm done with Growlanser 3. I'm still working on tracking down a cheap copy of Fire Emblem.

TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

Okay Tollmaster, I hope you got off your ass and got a copy of Makai Kingdom today. I'll be really disappointed if you didn't. There's even a little art book, but my EB guy couldn't find them so he says he's putting one aside for me to get later.

Shit. Now I'll never get my work done if I spend as many hours on this one as I did on Phantom Brave and Disgaea.

DonMarco · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903

My younger brother just started Phantom Brave three times. Is that normal, TOLLDADDY?

friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

I can only assume TOLLMASTER is holed up in a room that's empty except for him, a small tv, and his PS2 with Makai Kingdom.

Wow, I seriously considered calling in to work today. MK is excellent, and changes many of the things I didn't care for in Phantom Brave (ie: the equipment system). I'll write more later on.

wourme · . Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia

Okay, I've been playing Phantom Brave the past few days. One thing that I think the game really needs is better documentation. The tutorials only explain things that are common sense and the paper manual is even worse. Maybe they expect you to have played another of their games in the past.

But I'm far enough into the game now that I understand basically what's going on. It was a change to go back to such deliberate battles after the almost RTS battles of Growlanser, but it didn't take long to get used to. Anyway, I like how they designed the battle system, and I'm having fun with the game. Well, aside from a few tries at those random dungeons that resulted in a lot of wasted time.

TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

wourme · . Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia

TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

SuperWes · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 7:55 am Post subject:

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

You guys do realise what is getting the Mature rating tacked on to it right? Hell I was supprised that Batman Begins was PG-13. I mean... one man bites another mans head! That was not a spoiler either, it just kind of happens in the background. I mean, the first Batman was rated R and deserved it less than this one.

SuperWes · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:43 am Post subject:

Well yeah, we know the kind of stuff that does get an M rating, but I assumed that it was just a really broad category. Does Ninja Turtles deserve a T?

-Wes
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TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Yeah, being HOMOS-E-XUAL will typically get your rating bumped up quicker than anything, in any American media.

Does the ERSB actually play through every minute of any given game, or do they just have the developer highlight the most scandalous bits for them and work from that?

dhex · Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:14 am Post subject:

they rate off a footage tape provided by the maker.

that's something which will no doubt get changed soon.
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SuperWes · Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:24 am Post subject:

It might be, but really how in the world could actually having the disc have helped the ESRB find hot coffee? The FBI spent days looking for that stuff before some kid finally happened across the game shark code.

-Wes
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dhex · Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:33 am Post subject:

it wouldn't; it's just indicative of how shitty the ersb is. the whole thing is a fucking joke, but this is, after all, the age of farce.

- someone bothered to make computerized fucking
- someone bothered to leave it on the disc
- someone bothered to find it
- someone bothered to publicize it
- two people have bothered to file lawsuits over it
- hundreds of media outlets have bothered to cover it

and so on. no wonder i get drunk and weep for the fate of the constitution; it's all pearls before swine, anyway.

regardless i'm a far more combative person than those in the industry are, though i understand their strategy. i think they know that in 10 years they can start doing whatever the fuck they want, once another half cohort passes. and that people will lose interest.
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wourme · . Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia

TOLLMASTER · nippon ichi PR man Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 187

wourme · . Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia

Mister Toups · Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject:

The only thing I know about Growlanser is that the characters are all outrageously gay.

Even the straight ones.
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Is that an endorsement then?

Mister Toups · Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:57 pm Post subject:

Depends on how you feel about outrageously gay characters.
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where were you when nana komatsu got a wii?

Lockeownzj00 · . Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 214

As a side note, I've always wanted to make a game, I guess an RPG, where the main character happened to be gay to see what the response would be from gamers and the media. Sort of a challenging stereotypes thing.

I think "outrageously gay" here is a misnomer--gay != flamboyant. Flamboyant = attention whore. Last I checked, there are gay and straight attention whores, and they each garner it in their own ways.

As another side note, I'm completely addicted to Disgaea and am saddened by the fact that I'll only ever scratch the surface. I am proud that I got a, like, 2500 tile combo, though Very Happy