The Gamer's Quarter

Ketch · . Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420

I'd like to see a good game that referenced lots of pop culture (not just games) in a clever way. Sure Fallout 2 often did this but in a detrimental way to the cohesion of its own mythic world. Pheonix Wright was fun with the (made up) Pink Princess and the name of the hotel opposite. Maybe I should dig out a Moonwalker rom?

Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

Here's postmodernity for you: In Dead Rising, a game set entirely in a shopping mall, you have a Wild West-style shootout in a Wild West-themed food court. How's that?

My sister say the Zelda games she's seen me play are very postmodern in the way they mix and match tropes of various cultures. Look at the Boss fight in the Tower of the Gods: You fight a large Mayan-style head which seems to reference games like Starfox in its design- it even It shoots lasers at you. The lighting fixtures running through the walls look like they're from Tron. Link himself looks like he's a character from 60's/70's anime. Meanwhile, the music in the boss fight sounds like Walter/Wendy Carlos or Switched On Bach- 30-year-old electronic covers of European classical music. And this all coalesces to create a greco-roman sort of setting! It's like, what.

Oh wait, you said pop culture. Um. Mother 2 includes samples of Beatles songs in the music and has a features a band who look like the Blues Brothers. Actually there's quite a few things like that in Mother 2.

Here's one: When you look at the TV in your house at the start of Pokemon Red/Blue, you find they're watching Stand By Me. I guess this is because they deal with similar themes- all those JRPGS are a coming-of-age story in some form or another. Only, in Pokemon you're setting out to find some Pokemon and in Stand By Me they go out to find a dead body.

dhex · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:51 pm Post subject:

Mister Toups · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject:

Contact?
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Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

Contact is not postmodern. Contact thinks it's postmodern but it's just an excuse to have half a story and shitty gameplay.
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Mister Toups · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:51 pm Post subject:

GSL · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:09 pm Post subject:

I stand by the 'postmodern' designation of Contact.

The really strange thing is, the particular gaming demographic that Contact was designed for is the very same group that seems intent on crucifying it. Pearls before swine? It's a tough call to make, but I do know this: the whole "Professor looks like Andonuts LOL" aside, there's really very little difference between the core of Contact and Earthbound, when you get down to it, and it's near-universal rejection by those same hip, edgy cats who all, like, totally get Earthbound's postmodern genius is a very confusing thing for me indeed.

Also, I like/d it quite a bit as well, though I'm pretty sure I know why.

dessgeega · Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject:

contact is a waste of time.
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Lasa · . Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 128

Would not all Working Designs translations qualify as post-modern?

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

The Marathon series, Metal Gear Solid 2 (and less so, but still relevant, one and three), Earthbound and killer7, possibly MDK, are obviously post-modern games I can think of at the moment.

I guess I'm talking about a different, more evidently self-referential, form of post-modernism than just culture jamming, but these games are all well worth the investment and will play games with your head, typically for the better.
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Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

What's postmodern about MDK?

Swimmy · . Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 990 Location: Fairfax, VA

seryogin · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:23 am Post subject:

Ketch · . Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420

yEAH, I'll admit I'm not so much looking for postmodern games [whatever they are], as games which reference other pop culture. However, this intertextual pastiche is a feature of things which pretend to be postmodern, so modern / postmodern games can all be lumped together in my book.
-I don't like 'extistentialism' and 'postmodernity'!

Cycle · Mac daddy Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767

Dracko, I and an anonymous friend (who visits this forum) wish to know why you find Marathon to be postmodern.
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GSL · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:02 am Post subject:

Cycle · Mac daddy Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

Most literate? I'd disagree quite heavily. It's certainly clever, however.
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Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

Ok, then what is the most literate game I've ever played?

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:21 am Post subject:

Hey guys, the OC is postmodern ok.

-Wes
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Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

Karaoke Revolution and Britney's Dance Beat feature pop music songs, does that count?
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Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

But it's pop-culture!

What about those "Who Wants To Be a MIllionare" PC games?
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Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

Yeah, so, are we looking for games that make pop culture references or games that are in fact postmodern?
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Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

We're looking for games that make clever pop-culture references.

For Ketch.

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

kirkjerk · . Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227

Does self- and genre-referentiality = postmodern?

It reminds me about what Ralph Koster had to say about (relatively) recent art styles mapped onto gaming

Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:36 am Post subject:

Warioware's pretty postmodern actually. Far more than Metal Gear Solid 2 when you even slightly think about it.

-Wes
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Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

All I'm saying is Singstar Rocks has a shitton more pop culture references than any other game on this list because it's based on popular culture, but the TGQ hivemind (that maybe the first time I've used this term) won't adknowledge it because it isn't gamey enough for them or something.
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dessgeega · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:40 am Post subject:

what's singstar rocks?
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Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

I think he's talking more about when games break the diagesis of their stories to make references to other media.

A kareoke game having songs in it isn't really what he's after, because songs are an intrinisic part of the game. It has to have songs in it. It's not the same as having Earthworm Jim say 'Schwing! Alrighty then! Rosebud's a sled, NOT!' which is what Ketch is looking for, I think.

Don't shoot the messenger! Personally I think this kind of throwaway pop culture referencing is dumb at best.

Also I don't think there is a TGQ hivemind. There's so few of us here and we're all pretty different. I don't think anyone's ever tailoring their opinions just to fit in.

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:52 am Post subject:

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

kirkjerk · . Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:00 am Post subject:

Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

MAN THIS IS BORING.

Surely we should all have a grounding in what postmodernism is already.

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

dessgeega: [Nana's new signature] makes the postmodern thread a whole lot more postmodern.
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Super Robot Taisen: Original Generation has two main character plots to follow. The one I played is about a kid who wins a videogame contest which is a mech-simulator, but it is actually a trining tool for which new mech pilots are picked.

In a similar vein, No More Heroes for the Wii has the main character winning the weapon (which is the central point of the game) from, essentially, eBay.

The best learning tool in Live A Live (Squaresoft RPG, SNES) for the combat system in the game is to play Captain Square inside the game: an arcade game which is basically the combat engine of the game you're playing.

God Hand has a "giant enemy crane"

Rocket Slime has a tank called "DQ: Swords -- It's a Revolution! Whee!"

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

I dunno, breaking the third wall (directly addressing people backstage, not the audience) in a videogame sounds pretty postmodern to me.

dessgeega · Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:06 pm Post subject:

Swimmy · . Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 990 Location: Fairfax, VA

dmauro · . Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 303 Location: Brooklyn

How about Paper Mario 2?

Mr Mustache · . Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 167 Location: Queens

This thread, and others like it, could really benefit from a recommended reading section.
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Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

Man, that's a good idea. A recommended reading resource for the whole forum.

It should have links to online reading material only, so there's more chance of people actually reading them.

SuperWes · Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:08 pm Post subject:

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

Wikipedia has a pretty good list of postmodern authors.

Of this list, I've read Stephenson's Snow Crash (which I didn't like), Mark Z. Danieliewski's House of Leaves (which I do), and pretty much all of the translated Haruki Murakami (who is my favorite author). You can find a lot of Murakami's short fiction online if you look, I can post links if people are interested. Here's one story, Tony Takitani.

Edit: looking over the list again, I've also read a few things by Neil Gaiman that I liked and would recommend (the book about gods whose name escapes me, and Good Omens which is awesome), and of course Phillip K. Dick.

More Edit: And two of Arthur Miller's plays, although he never struck me as being postmodern in the way I understand the concept.

Even more edit: Oh and of course Vonnegut's Slaughterhouse Five which is genius. That was the first time I read a book that I realized could both be scholarly/canon and enjoyable!
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Ok, I obviously don't understand post modern. Something which I thought I did, then didn't, then did again, and now don't.

Please help the layman.
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