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helicopterp
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Count me interested. Reply with quote

So here's a great video of some WarioWare: Smooth Moves gameplay that makes me want to jump for joy. I might get a Wii before Mario Galaxy comes out after all.

The Pikmin micro-game in particular delights me.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The starfox boss thing gave me a huge boner.
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realize it's more retro-rehash-nintendo bullshit, but goddamn that video got me excited.
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey wait, does this mean we might see the power glove games show up somewhere in WarioWare?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nana Komatsu wrote:
Hey wait, does this mean we might see the power glove games show up somewhere in WarioWare?


I'd be surprised to NOT see that there, honestly.

Seeing this really make me want to see an enhanced port of Starfox to the VC which retains the original game's graphics but runs at 60 FPS and uses wiimote controls.

The first Starfox was the only one to get Slippy's voice right anyway.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3d balloon fight!

count me interested.
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Joe
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is . . . genius.
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B coma
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

probably even better fan service than smash brothers. getting this and two extra remotes when it comes out.
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dmauro
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there anywhere else I can watch this thing? For some reason videos on that site always just show up black on my work computer.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to see Warioware back in good form. Looks like it is once again making interesting investigations of human interaction with a given control set, something that Touched! missed.
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmauro wrote:
Is there anywhere else I can watch this thing? For some reason videos on that site always just show up black on my work computer.

The link on there says wii.com, so it may be on there, but I looked around and didn't see it. The video is for the Japanese version.

Anyways, yes, it's pretty great.
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player 2
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys weren't interested in WarioWareWii before?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

player 2 wrote:
You guys weren't interested in WarioWareWii before?


Well, if it had been made in the same vein as Touched! it would be nothing but 3-second lightgun games.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've yet to play any incarnation of WarioWare... but I definitely think I'll be picking up this one when it comes out.

Looks like it will be a great "party" game. I've been finding that Wii Sports (and Bomberman) is the only title I have that really fulfills those circumstances at the moment - both Red Steel and Zelda are more single player experiences. And, to my astonishment, it is hard to coax a group of friends into watching two people go through Golden Axe - haha.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to do the Animal Crossing fishing part! I might just have to get myself a Wii.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

player 2 wrote:
You guys weren't interested in WarioWareWii before?

Umm, only one person had said they weren't previously. It was one of the better things at E3. It was also the only game that worked extreamly well having never used a wiimote before.
silentmatt wrote:
I've yet to play any incarnation of WarioWare... but I definitely think I'll be picking up this one when it comes out.

I highly recommend getting Twisted! if you have a GBA or DS. If not, then the original. Avoid Touched! though.

Also, you* were on my Baseball team about 10 min ago!

*-Mii only.
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dmauro
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will this one have multiplayer modes? I'm trying not to get my hopes up too high for this one because touched proved that the forumla is not infallible, but multiplayer could be automatic success.

edit: cool pictures I found while looking for the video on wii.com




(She was the coolest thing about Touched, so I'm glad to see she's back)

It looks like maybe everyday they are going to add stuff? Link

And I found this on the page and translated with google:
Quote:
* It can enjoy together with everyone
 It turns with one Wii remote control, to 12 people preparing the mode which can be played. Being everyone with the family and the friend, it can enjoy together.

* Also your own offshoot appear!?
 The being similar face picture character which can be registered to Wii itself, the petite game where “Mii” appears.


Last edited by dmauro on Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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helicopterp
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, four players.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

helicopterp wrote:
Yes, twelve players.

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helicopterp
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile times a bazillion.
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

player 2 wrote:
helicopterp wrote:
Yes, twelve players.


Wario Party?
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dmauro
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nana Komatsu wrote:
player 2 wrote:
helicopterp wrote:
Yes, twelve players.


Wario Party?

Being everyone with the family and the friend, it can enjoy together.

The tagline on wii.com translated with google:

Made in Wario: Which Threatens
Experience age ignoring Instantaneous action
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

player 2 wrote:
You guys weren't interested in WarioWareWii before?

No, and I'm not now.

What exactly am I supposed to find exciting about all of this?
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
player 2 wrote:
You guys weren't interested in WarioWareWii before?

No, and I'm not now.

What exactly am I supposed to find exciting about all of this?


If you aren't excited by it, I doubt anyone can explain it to you.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like the visual style on the baseball game. Nintendo are continually giving me reasons to buy their console.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nana Komatsu wrote:
Dracko wrote:
player 2 wrote:
You guys weren't interested in WarioWareWii before?

No, and I'm not now.

What exactly am I supposed to find exciting about all of this?


If you aren't excited by it, I doubt anyone can explain it to you.

Well, how is this any different from any other collection of disposable mini-games? I see no real depth and adding icons of questionnable success in the medium is hardly an incentive.
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player 2
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
Nana Komatsu wrote:
Dracko wrote:
player 2 wrote:
You guys weren't interested in WarioWareWii before?

No, and I'm not now.

What exactly am I supposed to find exciting about all of this?


If you aren't excited by it, I doubt anyone can explain it to you.

Well, how is this any different from any other collection of disposable mini-games? I see no real depth and adding icons of questionnable success in the medium is hardly an incentive.


Well, I'm not that interested in the new WarioWare, but that's bc my whole interest in the Wii is gesture control w/n a context, but... I mean, shit, it's totally removing the whole videogameness of WarioWare. That's like Wario Ware's only problem.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
Well, how is this any different from any other collection of disposable mini-games? I see no real depth and adding icons of questionnable success in the medium is hardly an incentive.


The minigames here are also of questionable depth, and I have trouble playing WarioWare games more than once or twice through, but it's interesting seeing how they map actions to controls in highly intuitive ways.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

player 2 wrote:
Well, I'm not that interested in the new WarioWare, but that's bc my whole interest in the Wii is gesture control w/n a context, but... I mean, shit, it's totally removing the whole videogameness of WarioWare. That's like Wario Ware's only problem.


Well, the excitement over the Wii is the new input paradigm, and a WarioWare title means like 100 little input experiments.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

player 2 wrote:
the whole videogameness of WarioWare. That's like Wario Ware's only problem.


i would like to hear you articulate this.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That gave me a Nintenboner.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also you will be happy to know that when you boot the game up he says 'It's-a Wii, Wario!'
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Gamer's Quarter
Being everyone with the family and the friend, it can enjoy together.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
I highly recommend getting Twisted! if you have a GBA or DS. If not, then the original. Avoid Touched! though.

Also, you* were on my Baseball team about 10 min ago!

*-Mii only.


I have a GBA - I'll give it a look if I can find a copy. I've seen articles written about the experience but I always chalked it up to be something that would be better for groups of people as opposed to a single player experience.


As far as baseball is concerned: I can only hope we won! (I love the Mii Parade experience - David sent me an awesome David Bowie the other day... who totally sucks at bowling.)
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helicopterp
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
Well, how is this any different from any other collection of disposable mini-games? I see no real depth and adding icons of questionnable success in the medium is hardly an incentive.


Dracko, here's what I think makes it different, aside from the fanservice. I haven't every played a WarioWare title before, but the impression that I get (someone correct me if I am wrong here) from watching this video is that the extent of the instructions given to the player is just to describe in what basic position to hold the Wii controller. Then, the particular microgame comes onto the screen and it's up to you in a matter of seconds to a) ascertain based on nothing but context the objective of the microgame; and b) figure out then what exactly you need to do with the controller in order to accomplish that objective. It's an extremely abstract and focused way to design a game, and plays very directly into the idea of intuition. That's what has me really excited for this game, and why I think you should be, too. I hope I made it sound interesting!

Aside from that, I'm pretty sure that the multiplayer will be the perfect antidote for your curmudgeonly disposition Smile
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

helicopterp wrote:
it's up to you in a matter of seconds to a) ascertain based on nothing but context the objective of the microgame; and b) figure out then what exactly you need to do with the controller in order to accomplish that objective. It's an extremely abstract and focused way to design a game, and plays very directly into the idea of intuition.

Well, that's great, for a very, very basic system to a more developed game. I don't see what's exciting about a variant to the Press A Button Now formula when it's not implemented into something deeper.
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helicopterp
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a plenty good point. It's something I'll have to think about when I actually play the game. As of right now, I still like the idea, though.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko, have you played a Wario Ware game before? I recommend Twisted.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

honestly i would sooner recommend the original.

not DRAMATICALLY sooner, mind.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it look like it's gonna be Wiimote only, or nunchuck?

I'm lucky enough to land 4 remotes, still need 2 more nunchucks, but maybe by the time it comes out...

FWIW, Monkey Ball seems to be one of the best collections of minigames right now (loved how they use the upright controller as both a lunar lander and a flight stick) but I've heard some good things about that Rayman game too...
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update: just watched. WOW.

I just hadn't thought through what a "true console" port of WarioWare would look like.

The GameCube version, which is just a regrouping of the original's, plus a few enjoyable select-who-goes-first-games, really didn't do anything with the fact that it's on a powerful console. Somehow, I never even really thought of Nintendo Nostalgia later than the SNES (w/o the custom chips for StarFox, to be specific) but now that it's shown to me... I am filed with vast quantities of want. I hope the non-Fanboy versions are just as cool.

Actually... the big problem is going to be avoiding mastering this game in single player mode and saving it for friends time.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
helicopterp wrote:
it's up to you in a matter of seconds to a) ascertain based on nothing but context the objective of the microgame; and b) figure out then what exactly you need to do with the controller in order to accomplish that objective. It's an extremely abstract and focused way to design a game, and plays very directly into the idea of intuition.

Well, that's great, for a very, very basic system to a more developed game. I don't see what's exciting about a variant to the Press A Button Now formula when it's not implemented into something deeper.


There is depth - if you think about how many unique kinds of actions most games require you to pull off and take that as a measure of depth, Wario Ware has more depth than most jRPGs. There are between 150-250 different minigames in each Wario Ware, all with three levels of skill. You need to do what the game demands of you quickly or lose; minigames are shot at you in random order, so you never have time to be bored by one individual kind of game. It's not repetitive or laborious at all.

This is aside from the perfectly judged tone, sense of humour and utterly peerless art direction. It's pure and wonderful.

I'm puzzled by the Touched! hate in this thread. It was perhaps too short, but still a great launch title. I'm going to play it now and silently resent you all. Also, I am asking for Twisted! for Christmas, because they still haven't launched it here yet.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JamesE wrote:
Dracko wrote:
helicopterp wrote:
it's up to you in a matter of seconds to a) ascertain based on nothing but context the objective of the microgame; and b) figure out then what exactly you need to do with the controller in order to accomplish that objective. It's an extremely abstract and focused way to design a game, and plays very directly into the idea of intuition.

Well, that's great, for a very, very basic system to a more developed game. I don't see what's exciting about a variant to the Press A Button Now formula when it's not implemented into something deeper.


There is depth

"quantity is its own quality" - lenin

Quote:
if you think about how many unique kinds of actions most games require you to pull off and take that as a measure of depth, Wario Ware has more depth than most jRPGs. There are between 150-250 different minigames in each Wario Ware, all with three levels of skill. You need to do what the game demands of you quickly or lose; minigames are shot at you in random order, so you never have time to be bored by one individual kind of game. It's not repetitive or laborious at all.

This is aside from the perfectly judged tone, sense of humour and utterly peerless art direction. It's pure and wonderful.

I'm puzzled by the Touched! hate in this thread. It was perhaps too short, but still a great launch title. I'm going to play it now and silently resent you all. Also, I am asking for Touched! for Christmas, because they still haven't launched it here yet.

I think Touched just lacked a certain something something in comparision to twisted.
Fortunately, the Wii-mote is pretty much a superset of both the rotate-y sensor and the touch screen.

Getting back to the delight of WarioWare:
in my perspective, one of the most worthwhile things I get from videogames as a medium, the *one thing* other media *can't* provide, is finding "novel interactions"... and personally, I get a lot more enjoyment out of "physical" interactions -- and not neccesarily on the scale the Wii and its controllers provide, the abstraction a "traditional" controller provides still has a lot of room for interesting stuff if the virtual world has enough interaction points. (I say "'physical' interactions" s opposed to, say, an RPG, where there's a richly storied world, but the interaction is just simple movement plus picking things from a menu... in short, I enjoy novel interactions that were mostly designed by a programmer, not just scripted by a writer and an artist.)

Anyway, the WarioWare series, and the Mario Party games, speak very deeply to this pursuit. "Press A Button Now" is a brutal oversimplification, and the interactions can end up being very rich. There's an absolute purity there.

Now, I think every semi-serious pseudo-(or actually)intellectual gamer can usefully try to pin down what drives them in their pursuit... and I find my reasons very satisfying, esepcially because it's immune from arguments like "well don't books and movies do that better?", or "Isn't chess or some other game a more worthy puzzle-ish pursuit", or "couldn't you get better socializing from non-electronic games" etc.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
player 2 wrote:
the whole videogameness of WarioWare. That's like Wario Ware's only problem.


i would like to hear you articulate this.


WarioWare is about seeing a situation and quickly interpretting a correct response. Ignoring the inherent videogameness of the necessary immediacy and correctness of our response, we've still a problem. The response is ultimately going to be limited by what we can say. If we see a building flying at a superhero we decide that he has to fly out of the way.

For us, that's as simple as picking a direction.

For grandma, it's not as simple. She's going to be confused.

And while, yeah, it does kind of seem dumb that people can't get over the hurdle between a cross pad and direction commands - it happens. It happens to our mothers and fathers and siblings and cousins and sometimes even our friends. Those friends soon get kicked to the curb, I suppose. *Real world example alert* - an art TA of mine who wanted to understand videogames as art asked me for an example. I sent her a link to flyguy. When I talked with her about it, she said she couldn't get him to move because clicking on stuff didn't work.

The Wii is now here to destroy that barrier. It's so literal. Juke it left or right and, well, the Nintendo knows. Reimagine the superhero scenario. Ignoring identity issues, it's going to be pretty simple to figure out the correct response. In fact, it's almost possible to work with our innate inner programming (whoa!). Problem to the right, answer=move to the left.

And this is what _really_ interests me about the Wii. Fuck all the barriers that digital controls give us. I am interested in how images and sounds can interact with someone that's just... there.

I bet you could get your dog to play Smooth Moves with you.
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JasonMoses
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JamesE wrote:
Also, I am asking for Twisted! for Christmas, because they still haven't launched it here yet.

James I never even realized. That's pretty terrible!
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helicopterp
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Joined: 13 May 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't see anything wrong with what you wrote, Player 2, but that barrier in most videogames really doesn't bother me as much.

I guess a better way to say this would be: That people who don't play videogames don't immediately understand how to work a lot of the interactions is not a problem. There's a degree of vocabulary to understand in terms of how input works within the playing-the-game interface, and I think it's natural that there is a period during which a new player or someone new to the medium in general is still trying to figure things out. I'm okay with videogames--individually--only being accessible to those willing to put in the effort to understand how to work them. In fact, I think that the process of learning how a certain videogame works with our input is essential to the medium.

Hey, I want to talk this out, because I'm just putting together for the first time some of the thoughts I just typed.
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silentmatt
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see both sides to that argument - the complexity of the controls (and the satisfaction gained from mastering them) versus their degree of user-friendliness.

The difference, at least to me, lies in the games' purpose. Is it an utterly immersive experience designed for single-player use? I am thinking along the lines of Twilight Princess or Red Steel here.... which, to watch someone else play, is near dreadfully boring but to actually play is vastly more interesting.

Or is the game meant for a party atmosphere? Multiple people, many of whom probably have never played the game/the genre/the console before, trying to have fun?

In the second scenario, the idea behind the controller must be more intuitive than in the first scenario. For the single player games, the player has the ability to sit down, at her or his leisure, open up the manual... take it in page-by-page, garner hints and take the game at their own pace. In the second scenario, it is do-or-die.

As awkward as it is, even something designed to be the epitome of the second scenario (Wii Sports) can be too complicated for some people. Especially for games like bowling or golf, where multiple buttons need to be pressed, it takes a few minutes extra of instructions to get friends to understand how to play. That being said, Wii Sports is infinitely times easier than explaining Red Steel - which most people just roll their eyes at.
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DaleNixon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.truedoogie.com/ETFinalreally.mov

Watching this there's no way I can't feel the froth.
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Tim
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. I'm nowhere near that good at Excite Truck.

And also, about Starfox on Wario Ware! That made the video for me. The rest was already great, but when I saw Starfox with Wiimote control I lost it. I've been daydreaming about it all day. I mean, that would be so wonderful, even if they just stuck a port of the game as an unlockable in the next crappy(?) Starfox game they make.
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kirkjerk
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
Wow. I'm nowhere near that good at Excite Truck.

And also, about Starfox on Wario Ware! That made the video for me. The rest was already great, but when I saw Starfox with Wiimote control I lost it. I've been daydreaming about it all day. I mean, that would be so wonderful, even if they just stuck a port of the game as an unlockable in the next crappy(?) Starfox game they make.

Yeah, from the tutorials, I cannot figure out how to get the Air Spin...

I don't know if they did this for the WarioWare starfox, but I *really* hope they use the Wii-mote upright as a flightstick if/when they do StarFoxWii... Monkey Ball has a submarine game that did that, and it felt *perfect*.
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