The Gamer's Quarter

[Ketch]

Is it me, or do many (GC) games feel patronising, partly due to the sound effects... ie. Luigi's grunts and groans in L.M and the character noises in Wind Waker. But even Metroid Prime feels patronising (okay, I've only got 7 p/c in). Metroid feels patronising because it relies far too much on a formula of exploration. Which is also the problem with Luigi's Mansion. These games have a very structured progression which makes things feel predictable- even STALE?. The same happens in Zelda: Wind Waker.

Maybe this is just me though?

[Harveyjames]

Nintendo have this whole language of how you 'do' games, from the sound effects up, which they've not really deviated from since the NES days. Things like the way Wind Waker's ocean is so regimented and tile-based ( one island, one fish and one treasure chest per map square) are exemplary of this. You can see this as charming and stylish or ass-backwards and standing in the way of progress depending on your perspective.

I think Metroid is the only Nintendo game where sort of thing really holds it back. I'd like to see a Metroid game that doesn't revolve around 5 different types of blow-uppable blocks. Seiklus springs to mind.

[Nana Komatsu]

I agree, but I think newer franchises aren't so bad. I only played a little Pikmin, and I've played a lot of Animal Crossing and definitely do not think it is patronizing in the least.

[Harveyjames]

Yeah, elements of Animal Crossing are positively arcane. Like who would know you're supposed to bury furniture on the island, leave a spade lying around, download the island to the Gameboy Advance, watch your islander dig up the treasure and replace it, then go back to the island and dig up what he buried?

[Ketch]

And then there is the much remarked upon "You found a Red Rupee! It is worth 20 Rupees. Joy!" or "This small key can only be used in this dungeon".

(It probably all comes down to Miyamoto's idea that you need to delight the child.)

[dessgeega]

yeah, the unfortunate trend in most - but not all - contemporary nitendo games is to explain to the player everything she's expected to do in great detail. see the beginning-of-level movies in mario vs. donkey kong for a particularly unfortunate example.* what i find especially uncessary are the "tutorial chapters" which open many games, obvious or not. there are games which ought to have tutorials, certainly - strategy games, elaborate puzzlers - but nothing as simple and straightforward as a mario game. those are incredibly patronising, and there's no room for discovery when your capabilities are explained in arduous detail.

* note that these are fine in umihara, where they probably originated. umihara only shows you a couple, at the beginning of the game, and they illustrate nuances of the game system that beginning players are probably not aware of.
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[Nana Komatsu]

Are Mario games open and obvious to people who have never played a game before? I don't believe I could give my mother a copy of New Super Mario Bros. and have her pick it up and play because years and years ago she once played the original SMB.

Is this an issue between tutorial stages, or whether or not they should be optional?

[dessgeega]

well, the thing is, you should be able to teach me how to jump and then let me figure the rest out on my own. i don't need a movie explaining how to jump to a moving platform when i know how to jump to a stationary platform: expect that i'm smart enough to wait until the platform's within reach.

also, my mother bought new super mario bros. a few weeks ago and is having no problems with it. and i think any questions that might arise from the game should be answerable by looking at the instruction booklet. it's the interruption of gameplay to explain what should be apparent/figure outable that i find annoying and patronizing.
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[helicopterp]

[Harveyjames]