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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: why is final fight a good game? |
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this has been troubling me for quite some time now. i find the game incredibly boring and tedious.
all you do is walk around one-two punching enemies until they fall down, waiting for them to get back up, and then one-two punching them again. make sure they don't get on both sides of you, though! then they'll one-two punch you and then you'll fall down! and then they'll wait for you to get up and one-two punch you again.
and i guess you get to pick up a knife sometimes and throw it at someone? and then back to one-two punching.
i mean, in river city ransom i can knock an enemy down, pick it up and chuck it at its comrades. in double dragon advance i can do a triangle kick off a wall to knock an enemy down and then climb on top of it and punch it in the face. in advance guardian heroes, well, i can fly. and play twenty different characters who control completely differently. even the original guardian heroes is more interesting than this game.
so splain me, thread. why do people like final fight so much? haggar and poison are not acceptable reasons - tell me why i should like the game. violent storm has the game beaten in character design anyway. _________________
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chompers po pable .
Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 142
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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dess, please stop bashing the original GH until you put a descent amount of time into multiplayer/vs. modes. great game.
i agree with you on final fight. guy is a cool character, though. boring game, overall.
hope that answers the question in your thread title. |
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player 2 .
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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it's a beat'em up with good graphics and mashy gameplay... that's a good start for me _________________ Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653
"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp |
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Dracko .
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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I prefer the Streets of Rage series anyway.
Yes, even the third one. _________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!" |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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so okay, i was worried i was missing something but this thread has pretty much confirmed my perceptions of final fight.
chomp po pa, will it be alright if i limit my bashing of guardian heroes to its boring, needlessly stat-riddled single-player mode? _________________
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dark steve .
Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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dess go play streets of rage _________________
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chompers po pable .
Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 142
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | chomp po pa, will it be alright if i limit my bashing of guardian heroes to its boring, needlessly stat-riddled single-player mode? |
yes, as long as you explicitly state that your hatred of said game is entirely based on single-player.
and yes Streets of Rage 1 and 2 for the winning. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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i just played some streets of rage! it's pretty much what final fight would be if it were pretty, had a decent sense of place and good music, and had combat that was faster and less cheap? except for the bosses. ugh.
it still seems kind of boring though? i mean, there's a bit more grabbing and throwing, but there still don't seem to be many options in combat. _________________
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Dracko .
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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3 is actually really good once you look past its gaudy cyberpunk exterior and the ridiculous story elements. Perhaps some of its gameplay is unequal and forced, but it has some good ideas. _________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!" |
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chompers po pable .
Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 142
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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some of the moves in the SoR games aren't very intuitive. they're there, though! most of the extra moves are grab variations and DP motion types. good stuff.
just because you can't fly doesn't make SoR a bad game dess ;' ' '( |
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Dracko .
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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I'd kind of suggest playing the second one first as well. _________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!" |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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chompers po pable wrote: | just because you can't fly doesn't make SoR a bad game dess ;' ' '( |
hey all i'm asking is give me more than one button to press! i think that's a fair request. _________________
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chompers po pable .
Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 142
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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well, you've pressed all of mine in this thread >: |
dess, have you played SoR 2? |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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no > : |
but i will! _________________
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chompers po pable .
Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 142
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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okay then! |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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okay! _________________
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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so okay, streets of rage 2 > streets of rage 1 > final fight, though none of them engage me as much as a technos brawler. imho, or whatever qualifier i need to append to keep people from getting angry / de-friending me on livejournal. _________________
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player 2 .
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | so okay, streets of rage 2 > streets of rage 1 > final fight, though none of them engage me as much as a technos brawler. imho, or whatever qualifier i need to append to keep people from getting angry / de-friending me on livejournal. |
Double Dragon II is my favorite game ever. _________________ Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653
"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp |
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simplicio .
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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There is that Final Fight with the big headed characters, which at least has cuteness going for it.
But yeah, pretty lame series in retrospect. |
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chompers po pable .
Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 142
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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i wouldn't mind playing that crazy "rare" Final Fight for the Saturn.
i also wouldn't mind winning the lottery. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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mighty final fight is crazy cute.
mostly because of chibi poison and those little bearded fellows with the wooly caps who dance around on their tiptoes. _________________
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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There's a Final Fight game on the Saturn which is a 3D one-on-one fighting game. It's rubbish, like much of the rest of the series, but it has two redeeming features:
Rolento's special move is to get in a helicopter and machine-gun the other character to death. Pretty funny the first time you see it, especially when the words 'RUN AWAY!' start flashing on the screen and you're treated to an awkward animation of your character running like a little girl.
And there's another character who is a big burly guy, but his special move is to sing, putting the opponent to sleep. Like Jigglypuff. |
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dizzyjosh .
Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 64
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:45 am Post subject: |
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comparing final fight to river city ransom isn't fair, i don't think. river city ransom had the weird roll-kick thing you could do if you had acro circus and the super kick [was it called dragon kick] which might have even been kind of emergent.
final fight really only had ubiquity and a couple of very memorable characters going for it. i mean, i never played it on consoles, just arcades, but i think there's actually a final fight at one of the laudromats by my apt right now; i think that says a lot for its status as a touchstone of brawlers.
streets of rage i completely ignored (i stopped with brawlers and arcades in general until about D&D legend of mystara) but now i'm curious.
shit i should get a river city ransom tattoo. maybe the 'whooped' anim where dude's all panting and his jaw's all low? i need to remember to be more truly lazy in life after all. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:51 am Post subject: |
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dizzyjosh wrote: | shit i should get a river city ransom tattoo. |
"BARF!"
final fight spawned a host of imitators, i know that much. and gave us a trans videogame character, but probably only because of concerns of violence against women. which infuriates me if i think about it, but in the end i do like poison a lot.
(feel free to take that last quote out of context!) _________________
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dizzyjosh .
Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 64
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:08 am Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | which infuriates me if i think about it, but in the end i do like poison a lot.
(feel free to take that last quote out of context!) |
man, i never got into hair metal. i started with slayer and i'll end with slayer.
personal note on the trans thing: in the game we just released, one of the bosses you encountered was a prostitute. once we stopped having 'verbal combat' and went strictly to physical combat, we had to switch, as ESRB rules generally prohibit graphic violence against females. two solutions were proposed: we suggested having you beat up her pimp. an executive from the publisher fought heavily to have it instead revealed that she was a he. in the end, the pimp suggestion won out.
i really don't think the tranny solution would have been all that positive or even appropriate, despite the ignominous alternative of not appearing at all. sigh, invisibility or visibility solely as a subject of abuse, it is not a good dichotomy. i mean, our vocabulary wasn't much more extensive than 'punch', and there certainly wasn't much room to manuever in the license we had. personally those feel like excuses after the fact [they are], but i know it wouldn't have been handled well.
edit: i don't know how to use BBCode. barf is a simple and clever idea, although i think it's too ambiguous for my styles. |
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Isfet .
Joined: 27 Oct 2006 Posts: 107 Location: A New York
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: |
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i think the only way to really enjoy Final Fight is in an arcade, playing with someone else. it's a game that was really designed with that in mind, and when it's ported to a home console its flaws really shine through. i think it was essentially supposed to be a more streamlined Double Dragon. it makes the combat a little faster, but there's something inherently more repetitive about it. 3 is really the only one that attempted to introduce some new moves and elements, but they basically make the game extremely easy.
Streetwise almost got it right. it was so close, it's kind of tragic. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Yep, I've played it with a friend 2-player in an arcade and I had a gay old time. I think your standards are kind of lower in that situation, especially when you don't have time to get bored of it. Plus the game already had kitsch value through sites like Old Man Murray and Seanbaby.com, so that probably contributed to our enjoyment of it somewhat. |
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OtakupunkX .
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 730
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:08 am Post subject: |
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So Nekkestu Kohua Kunio-Kun (probably spelled something in that title wrong, I'm sure) is pretty much my all-time favorite game series.
Also, Captain Commando > Streets of Rage 2 > Streets of Rage > Final Fight. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Captain Commando gives you the opportunity to control a baby controlling a robot controlling a bigger robot, which automatically makes it the best game ever in my book. |
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friedchicken .
Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:57 am Post subject: |
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I can't with good conscience defend Final Fight as a 'good' game. As it is I have more of a nostalgia for it than an appreciation for it.
But it's one hell of a time-waster, you have to admit. I know what happens in it, what enemies are coming, and in what order everything will be, but I can still pick it up and play it just for kicks. |
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OtakupunkX .
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 730
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Harveyjames wrote: | Captain Commando gives you the opportunity to control a baby controlling a robot controlling a bigger robot, which automatically makes it the best game ever in my book. |
Out of all the games in the Capcom "Beat-em-ups that play exactly like Final Fight but have interesting twists" series, Captain Commando is easily the best one. I'd really like to track down the Japan-only PS1 version. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:59 am Post subject: |
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I like how there are pointless constants across all of Capcom's Final Fight-esque games, like the knife-wielding black man.
They redid the graphics from game to game, but didn't mess with the idea, because it doesn't get any better than a black man with tight pants twirling a knife. Also, you can always find a piping hot roast chicken on a plate in the bins, in all these games. Even in Capcom's Aliens Vs. Predator.
Since I'm posting images and all, I may as well dig these suckers out:
What's that Japanese scrolling beat-em-up where you play a Bayou Billy lookalike going through the jungle beating the shit out of hunters and trappers? It's amazing.The game consists of a series of set pieces where you'll come across some people being cruel to animals (say, punching an elephant), and then you have to deal out two-fisted vengeance on behalf of the animals in what some might describe as a disproportionately brutal way. Whoever made this game must have really hated hunters, since you can lift people up off the ground once you've knocked them out and knee them in the face. Also, at one point you get a Bazooka. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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that game is runark aka growl by taito and it is god damned amazing. mainly because of the obscene amount of people you'll find on one screen at any given time. you can be whipping twenty poachers simultaneously and if beating the shit out of poachers isn't your idea of a good time then i don't know what to tell you.
don't we have a thread on capcom's punisher game around here somewhere, also? _________________
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player 2 .
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Am I the only one who thinks that RCR's gameplay is really boring? _________________ Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653
"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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I never got into it either but I still thought there was something really, really neat about the graphics and the way you could go into shops, and the people say Barf. I never found it hard to see the appeal, but no, it's no fun. |
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wourme .
Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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I always liked Final Fight in the arcade, but I think my reasons were mainly Haggar and the fact that there wasn't a lot of variety in good 2-player cooperative games at the time.
Renegade was another one that I liked--making that whole crowd run across the subway platform or whatever and then jump-kicking a bunch of them at once. I've heard a lot of people say that the game was actually terrible, so I'll probably keep my positive memories and never play it again.
Bruce Lee for Commodore 64 is probably my favorite fighting game of all time. |
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xvs07 .
Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 160
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe they don't have a place in this thread, maybe they do, but has anyone else played and loved either Yie Ar Kung Fu or My Hero? I much preferred this era of brawlers, and never connected so strongly to the ones that came after. I think it's because they all stopped being so cute, or maybe because it became all about approaching on a diagonal rather than having good reflexes. Vigilante also fits into the same general category. These games are not technically amazing nor deep, but they have a pure and unforgiving sort of play that appeals to the eight-year-old perfectionist in me. |
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wourme .
Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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xvs07 wrote: | Yie Ar Kung Fu |
This is the only 1 vs. 1 fighting game I've ever enjoyed playing. I was just thinking about it again a couple days ago when I found this arrangement of the game's music. |
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Dracko .
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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What's that other series of sideway brawlers which features on a group of martial artists involved in a tournament? _________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!" |
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Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought Final Fight was rather over-rated but never bothered to bring it up anywhere. I'm happy to know I'm not the only one who thinks so! I mean, I still ove the game and have a good time with it, but there's better out there.
Streets Of Rage 2 impressed me as a child because it was the first game I played where the chicks breasts animate. It was also a fab game!
Bruce Lee was rad, there is a fantastic (very faithful) remake for XP here:
http://www.planetflibble.com/blitz/
I spent lots of time on Kung Fu on my cousins Atari. You can jump, kick and punch and guys run up to you and touch you and slowly decrease your health, so you just kick them off and send them flying back to russia. I managed to finish it when I was younger, but now I can't even get past the first level.
Has anyone played the International Karate remake for GBA? I keep meaning tp ick that up.
How about Ninja Turtles Arcade! Or Simpsons for that matter. I've noticed most of these games a pretty useless with only one player.
Hey, how about Ninja Golf! |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Cycle wrote: | Has anyone played the International Karate remake for GBA? I keep meaning tp ick that up. |
i've had a few good hours with it.
you all know ninja kids is as good as arcade brawlers get anyway. _________________
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Dracko .
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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Ah yes, International Karate was the one I was thinking of. Only had a vague recollection, though. _________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!" |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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When I was a kid I played a side scrolling brawler called International Ninja Rabbits on the Commodore Amiga 500, where you played a rabbit in a karate suit who fought Panda foot soldiers. It was the first game I ever saw which had blood in it, which I thought was just amazing. It was slightly unsettling at the same time, though.
Shadow Warriors (an Amiga port of Ninja Gaiden arcade) got a lot of play, too. It's amazing how your imagination builds these games up to be way better than they are when you're a kid. The first boss is a big fat Yakuza guy, and I remember him reacting accordingly depending on where we hit him, so I would excitedly tell my dad how I kicked the fat man in the nuts so he doubled up and then my friend kicked him in the arse so he fell over. You play these games now, and they're really not like that at all. |
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Swimmy .
Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 990 Location: Fairfax, VA
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Cycle wrote: | Hey, how about Ninja Golf! |
I made the ninja black.
Walk right and press a single button to punch people occasionally isn't what makes Final Fight boring, it just doesn't have the absurd set pieces or concept to make that format awesomer'n hayell. As Ninja Golf proves. _________________
"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin |
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TheRumblefish .
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 258 Location: Florida
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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Man, I feel out of place posting this here, but I adore Final Fight. I don't know, I just love it to death. I am still trying to write an article about the evoloution of the Beat Em Up genre, and it's still wishy-washy. Well I love Streets of Rage to here, don't get me wrong but Final Fight rocks my socks.
Go Cody, for not being afraid to show his mad knife skills off. _________________
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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why does final fight rock your socks? _________________
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TheRumblefish .
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 258 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | why does final fight rock your socks? |
It's brutal simplicity. I feel as if that brutality comes across during the game play with great fervor. I mean, it is nothing more then move forward punch, kick, maim. Repeat. It's simple in that aspect of fighting and seems like they cut out a lot of the more stylish methods of other games such as The Ninja Warriors Again, which I love to death. Final Fight couldn't even hope to match up to that game's style and fighting engine, but something about Final Fight is just great. It's just brutal and simple, nothing else. I like that. _________________
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Neal .
Joined: 13 Nov 2006 Posts: 36 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Sadly, my experience with the Beat em Up genre is pretty limited, just something I never got into. My friends are way into Final Fight and have forced me to play the GBA versions and I could never truly get into them. They even bought the new 3d Final Fight and enjoyed it. _________________ ........ |
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TheRumblefish .
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 258 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Neal wrote: | They even bought the new 3d Final Fight and enjoyed it. |
O.K. Now that's pushing it. That's an insult to Final Fight, seriously even in all of it's hilarity, it's still terrible. _________________
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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shit, why did no one tell me there's a natsume-developed sequel to ninja warriors on the super famicom?
i'm really starting to think natsume is my favorite developer for the console. _________________
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