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Okami, anyone playing it?
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Ketch
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:55 pm    Post subject: Okami, anyone playing it? Reply with quote

Okami, why isn't anyone talking about Okami? It isn't out here in Britain yet, but Lestrade has been playing it, so any thoughts on it?
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squidlarkin
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm more than halfway through it. It's the best Zelda game I've played in a while!

Despite the linearity of the tasks you have to perform, it feels curiously unstructured. Dungeons are few and largely combat-free. You can level up by feeding chickens. The brushwork stuff could have been a pain in the ass, but it's well-implemented and unobtrusive. I could do without Navi^H^H^H^HNissun giving me hints about obvious puzzles. It's probably the only family-friendly game in which you can be rewarded for urinating on your enemies.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finished the game a few days ago. My overall impression was that some people who worked on it took it a lot more seriously than others. I think the presentation is amazing and I really like a lot of the mechanics, but some big annoyances (mostly related to the script) will keep it out of my list of favorites.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm liking it a lot. There are the few little annoyances that people have mentioned, but overall it's so amazing to look at that it doesn't matter so much. My girlfriend wants to watch me play through the whole thing and she's not always around, so making progress has been slow. That probably says something about the overall look of the game though. It's seriously one of the most beautiful games ever.

-Wes
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GSL
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been playing it recently--not as much as I'd like to, with school starting and whatnot--and you know what really irks me about the game?

All the fucking Zelda comparisons.

I get most of my game reviews from places like IGN and Gamespot, as I would rather be playing games than reading lengthly, numerically-scored reviews about them, and I think I've developed enough of a bullshit detector to cut through their sloppy journalism and establish whether or not a game is worth my time. These two outlets, as well as various indie punditry across the intarwebs, are very guilty of the Zelda transgression. It's like a game isn't allowed to be some sort of expansive action/adventure title without drawing thoroughly unimaginative comparisons to the Zelda series. Not only that, but Okami uses an unconventional animation style, furthering the easy connection between the title and the abysmal Wind Waker. Seriously, what the hell? Everyone looked like some sort of goddamned cat in Wind Waker, which is something definitely not present in Okami. Hell, if we're making comparisons, why not say the game is like Jet Grind Radio? Or XII even?
Of course, no game is allowed to have any sort of NPC sidekick (however annoying) without references to that infernal Navi creeping in. I don't think I need to mention that Issun only pops up at certain scripted events rather than molest your ears with a constant stream of "Hey! Listen!" I wonder though--is the game REALLY that much like Zelda, or is it just that the people reviewing it, for whatever reason or omission on their part, just weren't imaginative enough to think of any better way to describe the game? As neat as Okami is, it would be nice if people actually showed the title and developers a little respect and attempted to let it stand on its own rather than propping it up with something it only superficially resembles.

So on to the game. As I said, I'm not too far along, but I've had enough time to form some initial impressions. First, as if it needed saying, the game is beautiful. Everything is soft in emulation of painted brush lines, and the use of color is just breathtaking, especially in the little things like the swirl of maple leaves after an air dash, or the lily pads that follow you after jumping in a stream.
There's a lack of control to the game too that I actually enjoy. It has no qualms about telling you that certain areas are off limits, either through blocking your way with an invisible wall (for example, forcing you to climb down a spiralling mountain path rather than leap to the bottom) or through the more subtle means of making the environment impenitrable--i.e. the rope bridge over the empty watery chasm of certain death being too high to jump over. The developers had a specific way to play and experience the title in mind, and while they want to give the player their vision, they also keep it open enough so it doesn't feel like one of the first Crash Bandicoot titles.
Beyond that though, there's not much I can comment on, yet. I'm still in the process of reviving Guardian Saplings and collecting brush techniques (which, speak of, is a damn clever interface which I'd love to see implemented on the Wii one day). But I'm liking what I've played so far.

P.S. Initially, when Okami was announced and before I knew what it was about, I used to confuse it with Odama.
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squidlarkin
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't speak for anyone else (in fact, I'd avoided coverage on this game, so as far as I'd known I was the first to make the connection (ha!)), but I didn't compare it to Zelda because it looks like Wind Waker. Because it doesn't. I compared it to Zelda because it plays very much like a Zelda game, despite being superior in many ways.
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GSL
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But what does that mean, 'to play like a Zelda game'? Does that mean a top-down scrolling adventure title like The Legend of Zelda, A Link to The Past, and all the Gameboy installments? A side-scroller with overhead maps like Zelda 2? Or a 3D adventure like Ocarina, the oft-forgotten Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker? Obviously, people are talking about the latter, but in that case why even make the Zelda comparison when the series is comprised of so many different types of games, and the 3D adventure titles don't even represent the majority of the series' style? Why are Ocarina and Wind Waker--highly overrated games, in my opinion, and the worst ones in the series--the yardstick by which 3D adventure titles are to be compared? Why not call Okami a Soul Reaver-esque game? That's the same style of play too! Give me some time and I could think up a few other games in the same vein.

(Incidentally, I wasn't specifically attacking your Zelda comment or anything like that, I just happened to have that resentment brewing in me prior to this thread and found a good outlet.)
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Lockeownzj00
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But what does that mean, 'to play like a Zelda game'? Does that mean a top-down scrolling adventure title like The Legend of Zelda, A Link to The Past, and all the Gameboy installments? A side-scroller with overhead maps like Zelda 2? Or a 3D adventure like Ocarina, the oft-forgotten Majora's Mask, and Wind Waker?


Oh, come on. There's no need to be disingenuous. I think all of us, including you, what is meant by "like a Zelda game." I don't think you're so obtuse as to think it might even theoretically represent Zelda 2, one of the few radically different versions in the series. Zelda, as a brand, has come to represent a certain style of gameplay.

Now, I do sympathise with a lot of what you're saying--at the same time, it'd be like ridiculing an FPS review for referencing Half-Life. It's not wrong, Half-Life was immensely influential to the 'story-driven' FPS genre and set many standards. Or criticizing a movie critic for comparing a modern mafioso flick to The Godfather. So I don't think all Zelda analogies are out of place.

Also, even though the phrase, in describing modern 3D games, is referring to the latter half of the Zelda series, even the 3D installments retain the essence that makes it what it is--I don't think anyone will deny that the thrill of exploration and adventure, and the style of puzzles (while constantly morphed) was completely different all throughout the series.

Quote:
Why not call Okami a Soul Reaver-esque game?


Because Soul Reaver didn't have as great an impact on gaming culture?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greatsaintlouis wrote:
and the worst ones in the series

Please go play the terrible GBC Oracle games now.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do the CD-I games count?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lockeownzj00 wrote:
Oh, come on. There's no need to be disingenuous. I think all of us, including you, what is meant by "like a Zelda game." I don't think you're so obtuse as to think it might even theoretically represent Zelda 2, one of the few radically different versions in the series. Zelda, as a brand, has come to represent a certain style of gameplay.

Is this the part where I get to go all recursive and harp on you for thinking that I was possibly serious in suggesting the title played anything like Zelda 2? Of course I know Okami plays nothing like Zelda 2, and that's my entire point: why call a game a Zelda-type game, when not all Zelda-type games play like Zelda-type games?

Quote:
Now, I do sympathise with a lot of what you're saying--at the same time, it'd be like ridiculing an FPS review for referencing Half-Life. It's not wrong, Half-Life was immensely influential to the 'story-driven' FPS genre and set many standards. Or criticizing a movie critic for comparing a modern mafioso flick to The Godfather. So I don't think all Zelda analogies are out of place.

This is, essentially, my whole issue: I do not, for one moment, believe that Ocarina of Time (I'm disregarding Wind Waker for the sake of this argument as it isn't as universally fawned over) is to adventure games what Half-Life was to FPS' or what the Godfather was to gangster films. In the case of Half-Life and the Godfather, people can easily pinpoint what they did for their respective genres, but what about OoT? What was so innovative or revolutionary about it? Sure, it did the whole 3D adventure thing very well (with the exception of absolutely boring dungeons, an annoying-as-fuck sidekick, and certain asinine character design ideas like Link's constant whimpers and yelps or Ganon as an absolutely comical balding guy with a huge nose) but in terms of influence I fail to see where it was so innovative. In fact, I'd even go as far as to say that it was less innovative in its genre than Mario 64 was.

Quote:
Quote:
Why not call Okami a Soul Reaver-esque game?

Because Soul Reaver didn't have as great an impact on gaming culture?

Again, what was this impact? Yeah, every reviewer everywhere gets instant wood over the mention of Ocarina, and it's consistently in the top five every time someone compiles an "OMG BEST. GAMES. EVAR." list, but I still have yet to have its greatness successfully explained to me.

I guess I just chafe at the idea of the latter Zelda titles being the magic yardstick by which all other 3D adventure games have been measured in the last several years. Titles either pass this intrinsic 'Zelda-a-like' test or they sink to the bottom because reviewers aren't imaginative enough to elevate a game on its own merits; worst of all, the measuring standard is a series that hit its apex in 1992.

Swimmy wrote:
Please go play the terrible GBC Oracle games now.

I have, and they're really not that bad. Their purpose--along with Minish Cap--is that of side-stories, and in that they work very well. They're nowhere near as good as the original Zelda, Link to the Past or even Link's Awakening, but I really don't think that was ever the intent.

Nana Komatsu wrote:
Do the CD-I games count?

Of course not, that's like asking if poop counts! The two animated titles are so ridiculous as to verge on parody, except they're not funny. Zelda's Adventure or whatever it was wasn't as bad, but someone would have to do a pretty damn good job to convince me it should be taken canonically. See also: Mario's Time Machine:Mario series.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

poop is an important part of the ecocycle.

also, ocarina is not that good a game.

(the only really good parts are the stalfos battles, and there are maybe five of them in the whole game. probably the smartest thing the wind waker team did was make most of the game's battles play like the stalfos battles.)

(also if this is the standard by which we're judging such things, soul reaver has much more interesting combat than ocarina.)

(also - ocarina's great impact: mandatory stealth scene? does okami have one of these?)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The first time I got to Hyrule Field I wandered around a little. Poking around in Zelda games is fun. The sun went down, and I was kinda spooked by the night time. Being scared of the night was something conditioned in me by Castlevania 2, I guess.

Anyways, the skeletons came out of the ground and surprised me. I killed them but I suffered a loss of life. More skeletons came, and I handled them as well. I lost more hearts that second time. I am not sure how many times this repeated, but eventually it stopped. I looked up in the sky and I saw my first videogame sunrise. A chill ran up my spine.

When I make my games, I want people to have stories like that, too.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a horrible night to have a curse.
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greatsaintlouis wrote:
Nana Komatsu wrote:
Do the CD-I games count?

Of course not, that's like asking if poop counts!


Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me princess!

(yeah that was a lame setup. sorry.)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

player 2 wrote:

When I make my games, I want people to have stories like that, too.


The thing is that these kind of things lose their impact when they are seen for the second, third, hundredth time. What we need is a title that changes with each day, like an action-adventure version of "Animal Crossing".

Beyond Good & Evil was a good 'Zelda'-a-like too, better in many ways.. please give me the piggy hovercraft over the King of Red Dragons anyday!

edit:
GreatSaintLouis
"but I still have yet to have its greatness successfully explained to me. "

...greatness cannot be explained, you have to experience it for yourself! You either get it or you don't
----Actually, I am not a fan of Ocarina although I can theoretically see what people like about it. To me it is mediocre, but with some great moments. and some really annoying things (the aforementioned yelps, Navi etc). I prefer FinalFantasy 7, if only for the mise-en-scene of the opening movie "Loveless?".
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not exactly the biggest Zelda fan in the world, but I think that a lot of people are overcritical of Ocarina. It's got a ton of charm, and the world isn't nearly as confused and overcheery like ALttP. Every place in that game was sorta grim. It feels almost as glum as the original Zelda because the N64 is so underpowered for what it really wanted to do.

I hope TP is a return to form. It sure looks like it.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greatsaintlouis-

I think you're freaking out a little. The reason all the reviews compare it to Zelda is because most of the reviewers are writing for a relatively broad audience. Lots and lots and lots of people have played Zelda games, so it makes for a useful point of reference, that's all. I have read a few Okami reviews, and while they unanimously acknowledge the games similarities to Zelda, they only do so as an easy base from which to work the rest of their comments, the meat of the review, about the game.

And I have not played Ocarina in a while, but what I can say for certain is that I remember enjoying it and also that its character design is really poor. The shitty character design probably can attributed to the majority of the team's efforts' going towards making the game work in 3-d. They clearly remedied this problem in the 'oft-forgotten' (I can't think that anyone on these boards often forgets it, so your adjective strikes me as unapplicable) Majora's Mask.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i actually tend to agree. reviewers using the zelda series as shorthand for . . . whatever . . . is narrowing both our discourse for 3D games and the history of the zelda series.

hey, someone tell me about okami.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okami's real good. It's a bit like Zelda.

Actually, I think part of the reason Zelda is used for comparison as opposed to someone else is that it's very likely the game was made by people who have worked on Zelda games before and used that experience as inspiration. Capcom did the two GBC Zelda games and Minish Cap, and much of the team probably worked on this for Clover. Not for sure, but it's a definate possibility.

-Wes
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What game(s) played similarly to OoT before it?

If it came first and had followers, that would explain its use as a benchmark.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, so I guess the Zelda-association crusade is a losing battle. But it was a learning experience! I feel like I'm learning more about the TGQ vibe all the time, though!
-It's cool to hate Final Fantasy because it's too dramatic or long or something.
-It's not cool to 'freak out' about the newer Zeldas, because your comments will be dismissed offhand as being irrelevant, inapplicable, not getting it, etc. etc.

I'm getting better! I'll have the proper conduct nailed down soon enough!

dessgeega wrote:
hey, someone tell me about okami.

So, Okami is really really great and here's why:
First, the art style. It's been gushed about by almost everyone who's played the game and really needs no introduction. However, the art really is as good as everyone makes it out to be--it takes the idea of cel-shading (which, as games such as Jet Grind Radio or Tales of Symphonia prove, can look really good when done right) and goes one step further to make the game look as if it were constantly being drawn by an invisible brush. Lines on objects are constantly shifting and changing, and everything has this slightly fuzzy look to it that makes you think you're really looking at some kind of watercolor. Plus--and I'm not sure exactly how to describe this--the whole game screen is, uh, textured, or something, to look like rough paper.
The brush powers really add depth to the gameplay. In the early hours, there's a lot of hand-holding as you learn new powers and figure out where and how to use them, but after a while the game backs off and it's up to you to remember specific strokes. It's an exciting feeling when you draw flowers over a blighted patch of land, and then draw a bomb to unearth a buried treasure chest. It's a feeling of accomplishment, like you're the master of this world with your divine powers and all, even though you only did precisely what the game wanted you to.
A big draw for me is the character of Amaterasu herself. Too many games featuring a non-human protagonist turn the character into some wise-cracking motormouth or erstwhile icon of cool which simply becomes grating after you've seen it enough. Your wolf doesn't speak, and simply acts, well, endearingly like a wolf. In the start of the game, all of the NPCs' faith in the gods have dwindled (one of your side-goals throughout the game is performing works that restore this faith) and so they see you as nothing more than a friendly wolf, and their dialogue reflects as much (and is pretty amusing to boot).

Those are just a few of the things that I really enjoy about the title. It's a solid game and fun to play, but it's all of those little touches that really give it soul and make it an experience.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to see that the "message board hive-mind" is a general trend.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greatsaintlouis wrote:
Alright, so I guess the Zelda-association crusade is a losing battle. But it was a learning experience! I feel like I'm learning more about the TGQ vibe all the time, though!
-It's cool to hate Final Fantasy because it's too dramatic or long or something.
-It's not cool to 'freak out' about the newer Zeldas, because your comments will be dismissed offhand as being irrelevant, inapplicable, not getting it, etc. etc.


are you doing a tgq hive mind callout? don't forget that we hate interplay and love bethesda.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greatsaintlouis wrote:
Too many games featuring a non-human protagonist turn the character into some wise-cracking motormouth or erstwhile icon of cool which simply becomes grating after you've seen it enough.


Oh, if only they had stuck with this attitude and not made Issun more than obnoxious enough to diminish the charm of a decent main character. So much of the game is classy and beautiful, and then there's the writing.

I can imagine what the game would be like in the style of a silent film--minimal dialogue (without any of the stupid sitcom character attitude) posted to the screen on cards or something.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Final Fantasy!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greatsaintlouis wrote:
-It's not cool to 'freak out' about the newer Zeldas


How would you know? You didn't freak out about Zelda. You freaked out about Okami reviews you have read.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wourme wrote:
Oh, if only they had stuck with this attitude and not made Issun more than obnoxious enough to diminish the charm of a decent main character. So much of the game is classy and beautiful, and then there's the writing.

I can imagine what the game would be like in the style of a silent film--minimal dialogue (without any of the stupid sitcom character attitude) posted to the screen on cards or something.

See, Issun didn't really bug me all that much because he's not the protagonist, if that makes any sense. I'm a bit more forgiving if the annoying character isn't the main one, and for some inexplicable reason Issun doesn't quite cross that line from 'pathetically amusing' to 'egotistically annoying'. I mean, for all his bluster about being the greatest artist of all ever, each person you meet still makes a comment about him looking like a bug or whathave you, so that it gets to be a bit of a running joke. In fact, I think of the Amaterasu/Issun pair as a Japanese oware kombe or double act in the venerable Abbott & Costello tradition, with Issun being the foolish boke and Amaterasu playing the tsukkomi, which is the part that 'corrects' the boke idiocy with physical repremands. I thought that was perfect what with all her stepping on him, biting him, etc.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greatsaintlouis wrote:
See, Issun didn't really bug me all that much because he's not the protagonist, if that makes any sense. I'm a bit more forgiving if the annoying character isn't the main one, and for some inexplicable reason Issun doesn't quite cross that line from 'pathetically amusing' to 'egotistically annoying'. I mean, for all his bluster about being the greatest artist of all ever, each person you meet still makes a comment about him looking like a bug or whathave you, so that it gets to be a bit of a running joke. In fact, I think of the Amaterasu/Issun pair as a Japanese oware kombe or double act in the venerable Abbott & Costello tradition, with Issun being the foolish boke and Amaterasu playing the tsukkomi, which is the part that 'corrects' the boke idiocy with physical repremands. I thought that was perfect what with all her stepping on him, biting him, etc.

What got to me was primarily the modern slang (which seemed quite out of place in the game's world) and, above all, the incessant juvenile lecherous remarks toward and about all the female characters.

Sort of spoilers, I guess:

I suppose that it's sort of tied to the game's self-awareness (such as when he asks why they only seem to run into women), but I think that it's way overdone. The conversation in the room with the scrolls honestly almost made me quit the game--when he repeated his dumb joke in every single sentence he said for the entire conversation, I began to seriously question whether I was in the game's target audience. I gathered that Amaterasu is sort of supposed to be both male and female, but regardless, it struck me as odd that Issun constantly talks to Amaterasu the way he does about the female characters they encounter.

A lot of the time, Issun just struck me as an irritating modern-day kid in what's supposed to be a beautiful ancient fantasy setting. But then, things like this bug me more than they do most people, I think. A single pop culture reference in a movie that's supposed to be timeless or at least far-removed from here and now can completely ruin the experience for me.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can totally see where you're coming from, and that sort of thing would normally turn me off of a game as well. I'm not entirely sure why, in this particular instance, it doesn't.

I suppose if I had to try and explain this, I'd say that, at least to me, there's a very small bit of general silliness that runs through the game, and the character of Issun just ties into that. I mean, it's nothing like Psychonauts or any other game deliberately attempting to tickle the funny bone, but I would certainly call it lighthearted and whimsical in its characters, from the way most NPCs refer to you in some patronizing form of 'pooch' to the village strongman being a lazy drunk to the grouchy mom who clobbers you if she catches you stealing radishes. Issun to me seemed just a part of that, just something to shake your head and chuckle at and a diversion from the more serious 'restore color to the world and kill the virgin-eating demon' goal.

EDIT: Damn that Psychonauts title.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=68633

Clover Studio to close. Sad. says it all.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

all that remains to do is a tgq god hand thread.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We should talk about the Legacy of Kain series more. Soul Reaver in particular.

I hear good things about Okami and it looks genuinely interesting.

I've never much cared for any Zelda game past the first one and never understood why they're supposedly so great.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey, the second one's pretty good too.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget Link's Awakening for the original GameBoy!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
We should talk about the Legacy of Kain series more. Soul Reaver in particular.

I'd be down for that.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
hey, the second one's pretty good too.

I prefer the first one on account of how damn original and vivid the world it conceives is. The second one is fine as a narrative, but never managed to capture me in quite the same way.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I've been playing Okami this weekend. I'm about six and a half hours in, but I wanted to talk about it anyway. There are parts that I love and parts that I don't. The first two hours of gameplay were spectacularly disappointing for me because they were so vague. I only ever knew what I should be doing two minutes before I did it. It gave me a lot of slow, superfluous backstory that left me with no real objective in mind.

Since then it has gotten better, but I'm still not completely satisfied with it. The environments, as pretty as they are, are very dense. There is a lot of altitude to the game, but the perspective is conducive to breadth. While at times this can lead to breathtaking moments (anybody who has this game should jump from the highest point that they can--this actually gave me a physical sensation akin to being on a roller coaster) it mostly just obstructs the already less-than-clear ideas of what I am supposed to be doing and where to do it.

As far as play mechanics go, I think I like it so far. I'm not so big on the way battles are given their own private arenas isolated from the rest of the world (like FFVII or Quest 64), and I'm not sold on the equipping of different weapons. It's like RE4 except that I can't tell if I'm really doing any better with one weapon or the other. However, I love feeding animals. I also love that there is a bite button that actually makes Ameterasu pick up things in her mouth. It just seems so appropriate. And painting and restoring things is pretty fun. Anyway, those are just my early thoughts.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
dessgeega wrote:
hey, the second one's pretty good too.

I prefer the first one on account of how damn original and vivid the world it conceives is. The second one is fine as a narrative, but never managed to capture me in quite the same way.


I like Wind Waker, because the graphics are well wicked, and you can connect up the game boy. Plus Tetra looks and talks exactly like my friend Petra.



Also: Majora's Mask is great. Ocarina is good. Link to The Past has some well-designed dungeons but is otherwise boring. Link's Awakening is wonderful. I recommend Link's Awakening to anyone still not sold on Zelda. If you still don't like Zelda after playing Link's Awakening, fine, but you'd better tear up your organ donor card because no-one wants your BLACK HEART OF STONE ok.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are things about wind waker that are very good. particularly the combat. it's better than ocarina at any rate.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, the combat is a lot of fun. I really think that on a nuts and bolts level, Wind Waker is far superior to Ocarina. They definitely improved everything they touched, regarding the actual handling of Link and his abilities. Here's hoping Twilight Princess's Link is every bit as fun to control.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harveyjames wrote:
Dracko wrote:
dessgeega wrote:
hey, the second one's pretty good too.

I prefer the first one on account of how damn original and vivid the world it conceives is. The second one is fine as a narrative, but never managed to capture me in quite the same way.


I like Wind Waker, because the graphics are well wicked, and you can connect up the game boy. Plus Tetra looks and talks exactly like my friend Petra.

I was referencing Soul Reaver 2, though. Or maybe dess was talking about the second Zelda and then I got confused and oh god this is a mess.

And I originally meant the very first Zelda game anyway. I really don't care for the 3D ones at all.

Harveyjames wrote:
If you still don't like Zelda after playing Link's Awakening, fine, but you'd better tear up your organ donor card because no-one wants your BLACK HEART OF STONE ok.

Good, because I like my heart where it is.

Though Link's Awakening was cool when I was about 10, and is damn good as a pocket adventure.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Link to The Past has some well-designed dungeons but is otherwise boring.


Whoa, whoa. When did we decide this? I like to think it isn't just misplaced nostalgia that has me placing LttP as a fantastic game.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry. I guess I got this thread confused with the Okami thread. My bad, y'all.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I hate it when topics evolve naturally into something else. Stay in line, you fucks!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I made a post about the original game, and it was the first post in nine days. Then everybody else responded to the nine days ago post instead, and they forgot to realize that Dracko was talking about a different game/series. I am pretty sure that I have seen more natural conversational evolutions than that.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wife is 40 hours into Okami. Around the 32 hour point the original story ended... this game is going to be huge.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back on Zelda for a second, sorry guys:

Lockeownzj00 wrote:
Quote:
Link to The Past has some well-designed dungeons but is otherwise boring.


Whoa, whoa. When did we decide this? I like to think it isn't just misplaced nostalgia that has me placing LttP as a fantastic game.


Weeeeeeeell we didn't ever decide on this as a whole. But I find Miyamoto's Zeldas somewhat lacking in heart and soul. I don't deny it was necessary to make that game- Miyamoto builds wonderful boxes, but it takes other directors to fill that box with cool shit. This is why I prefer Majora's Mask and Wind Waker to Ocarina, Link's Awakening to LTTP, and some may prefer Super Mario Bros 2 + 3 to Super Mario Bros. 1. (I happen to like SMB1 ok though.)
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give this man the star prize.

P.S. Lost Levels all the way.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lockeownzj00 wrote:
Whoa, whoa. When did we decide this? I like to think it isn't just misplaced nostalgia that has me placing LttP as a fantastic game.

I'm with you all the way! I'm also going back offtopic. I'm a baaaad man. I apologize.
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