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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:37 am Post subject: Animal Cakeshop |
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Here's my design document (read: one rambling email I wrote to someone once) for Animal Cakeshop, a game I want to make. Since the idea for the game came out of discussions about narrative in games and interactive fiction we have had on this very forum, I thought it would be cool if we tried to community-make it. Mainly because I can't program. Also because I'M A BUSY MAN OK. See what you think.
me wrote: |
Animal Cakeshop is a piece interactive fiction set in an line drawn, MSPaint-rendered world of animals not unlike that of Animal Crossing (because I don't have any ideas of my own). The only commands at your disposal are 'give him a cake' or 'don't give him a cake'. It's an attempt at a game where your every action affects what happens next in the story's timeline, in some way.
So, here's how it works. Soon after you start the game, you'll meet your neighbour, a tidy, well groomed girl cat. This is all rendered in a way that might bring to mind old Research Machines games for schools.
'You see Sue, who is tending her garden. It is very tidy. Flowers of all different kinds are lined up in a row and everything is in its right place'.
[this description will be carefully worded so it could be describing a beautiful garden, or your idea of hell, depending on your point of view.]
'Sue says hi!'
>GIVE HER A CAKE
>DON'T GIVE HER A CAKE
Whatever you choose, you will then be shown your other neighbour, Bill. The game will remember your answer, though. Bill is shown as a cute but scruffy bear. His garden looks somewhat overgrown, but lovely in its own way, with sunflowers growing wild, etc.
'Bill is lounging on his front lawn, drinking his favorite beer and scratching his belly. '
'"Hey", says Bill.'
>GIVE HIM A CAKE
>DON'T GIVE HIM A CAKE
Here is a scene you might get soon afterwards:
'It is Tank from the Garden academy.'
[Tank is a small, bidpedal, uniformed giraffe-looking thing. Sue is also in shot. She looks concerned for Bill.]
"Gee Bill, this is one unkempt garden you got here. I'm going to have to mark you down this week."
Sue pipes up. "Gosh, I didn't want to say anything Bill, but he's right."
'Tank puts the ticket under a rock and makes to leave.'
>GIVE HIM A CAKE
>DON'T GIVE HIM A CAKE
Right. Now further into the game we might get:
'Sue's house is being looted by Sampras!'
(Sampras is a powerful overgrown rabbit.)
>GIVE HIM A CAKE
>DON'T GIVE HIM A CAKE
These simple acts of affirmation/disapproval will affect what the character goes on to do, how they regard you, what sort of a person the game thinks for are. And like a butterfly flapping its wings to cause a storm on the other side of the world, these simple acts of kindness and approval (or the opposite) can over time build a character up or destroy their lives completely.
I had an idea for a 'black moment', too. This might not happen on every run-through, but say at a late stage in the game some awful atrocity befalls the character the game deduces that you love the most.
'You see Bill.'
"My house is on fire!"
>GIVE HIM A CAKE
>DON'T GIVE HIM A CAKE
Now the game knows this is the character the player loves the most, we can lay on the pathos so much that the player should be thinking 'give him a cake, give him a cake, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GIVE HIM A CAKE'.
The player selects:
>GIVE HIM A CAKE
And the game replies:
>But you've run out of cake!
The player clicks again. Same message. He clicks again. Still the phrase repeats.
>But you've run out of cake!
>But you've run out of cake!
>But you've run out of cake!
>But you've run out of cake!
The player stares blankly at the flashing cursor. This isn't how it was supposed to end, he thinks.
>DON'T GIVE HIM A CAKE
[Bill is writhing on the floor]
"Oh god, please! I'm dying here! Just... one.. piece of cake..."
>GIVE HIM A CAKE
>DON'T GIVE HIM A CAKE
Nothing has changed, your only choice is
>DON'T GIVE HIM A CAKE
'Bill is dead.'
>GIVE HIM A CAKE
>DON'T GIVE HIM A CAKE
Then maybe Sampras turns up driving a stolen cake van (which he barely fits into). It crashes and hundreds of cakes spill everywhere. 'Hey look what I found down at the fair!'
>GIVE HIM A CAKE
>DON'T GIVE HIM A CAKE
Well, that's the project as it stands right now. Before I typed this out it was just a couple of post-it notes I'd written on, so this is as much as I've ever written about this game. |
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xvs07 .
Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 160
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:17 am Post subject: |
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I was totally with you and thinking the game sounded a bit like Chulip (which is beginning to seem like it will hover on the horizon forever, by the way...) until the teddy did the napalm dance. The world doesn't need another Happy Tree Friends, okay? The rest is sound, though, and a working-but-less-pretty model could probably be hacked up in no time with some sort of interactive fiction editor. |
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Ketch .
Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Sounds cool, you might even be able to make it in a visual novel maker (although there are probably too many branching decisions).
You could put it together as a flowchart first, the way that Peter Jackson and Ian Livingstone put together their Fighting Fantasy books. To map out the obvious and hidden cause and effect trees. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:31 am Post subject: |
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xvs07 wrote: | The world doesn't need another Happy Tree Friends, okay? |
I hate the fucking Happy Tree Friends! Oh look it's a cute character AHAHAH he did something unexpectedly macabre. I'm with you.
This isn't like that. It's a world of animals, but that doesn't mean it's Disneyland. Sometimes people's houses set on fire.
Maybe this could be established early on by having Bill have to go to his uncle's funeral, or something.
I'm thinking that instead of a flowchart the story events would be more like a deck of cards that are shuffled in front of you, but each response you make adds points to a hidden tally which influences what 'card' you will be shown next. Like if you get over 30 'liberal' points Bill's house burns down, and if you get over 30 conservative points Sue's kittens die. Or something like that. I expect there will be more hidden tallies than just that- for compassion, individualism, collectivism, and other things- just that these will never be revealed to the player.
The things that test you will probably have a heavy emphasis on events and story. The player should be somehow aware that what he is doing can influence events in some way, otherwise it's no more sophisticated than one of those old 60's personality tests where they show you a picture and you have to say what you think they're saying, like 'No time for the old in-out love, I've come to read the meter.' |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Harveyjames wrote: | xvs07 wrote: | The world doesn't need another Happy Tree Friends, okay? |
I hate the fucking Happy Tree Friends! Oh look it's a cute character AHAHAH he did something unexpectedly macabre. I'm with you. |
also with. _________________
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: |
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the dead candy squirrel is a neat shirt though. (never seen the episodes) _________________
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: |
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xvs07 wrote: | Chulip (which is beginning to seem like it will hover on the horizon forever, by the way...) |
Feburary ... '07. I preordered this game for Valentines day of '05. It got pushed back, then at E3 they claimed it was coming this month (Oct '06) and now it is pushed back again.
I am pretty sure this has to do with the ESRB and a certain pedo-turtle who wants a kiss. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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OtakupunkX .
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 730
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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You could probably do this game in BASIC if you really wanted to. I hate to say it because it gets dissed on quite a lot, but DarkBASIC would probably be your best bet for this kind of thing. It's really simple and would probably work very well for the game. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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I want it to be very easy for people to get this game up and running, like a standalone .exe that anyone can run, so if DarkBASIC can do that then it sounds A-OK. I'm not planning on seriously working on this game until after I'm done with this pirate thing, anyway, so we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
So as previously mentioned, the game secretly keeps score of the player's individualism, collectivism, liberalism, conservatism, compassion, generosity etc. It decides this based on your reactions to the scenarios presented. Say a soccer match occurs. If you give a kid passing a ball a cake you score collectivist points. If you give a kid who dribbles the ball around, showing off etc. a cake, you lose collectivist points. (Also, maybe this causes him to miss when he shoots for the the goal maybe.) The amount of points you get will determine the outcome, or the occurance, of later events.
I should stress that this game is not meant to be an important psychology test- the fluidity of the 'story' is the important thing and these scores are just the catalyst for that. The events that occur will be relevant to your choices and percieved personality, though. It's about making a story that organically develops to fit the player.
I wonder if the categories I listed to score the player are extensive enough, or focusing on the right attributes. I'm sure I'm missing something. |
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OtakupunkX .
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 730
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Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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I think you've got all the personality categories you'd need. They pretty much cover all the bases needed to make the game an interesting, different experience for each player.
Also, DarkBASIC does allow you to export to .exe, and the .exe file contains all the external images, movies, and sound used in the game if I remember correctly, to keep file size down. |
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FortNinety Pheonix Wright
Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 250 Location: NY, NY
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: |
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On a side note, aside from not enjoying Happy Tree Friends either, I've never seen a single "episode" of Homestar Runnner. I have some friends who are really into it (its quite the hit among indie comic dorks really), but at this point, I'm afraid to say anything, since they'll start shoving links down my throat, which I'm not soo keen on since I think I might dislike it. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:58 am Post subject: |
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That's my experience with Homestar Runner exactly. I've been linked to the Homestar Runner site before, seen the front page and just thought 'I am going to hate this' and clicked away. Life is too short!
Looks like this game is going to happen, then, since Nana has kindly offered her programming skills. So let's plan the shit out of this now, so it will come together very easily and without headache in the new year. I was thinking I liked the way Shigesato Itoi reportedly wrote Mother 2; he asked his team to come up with scenarios, then sifted through them like a newspaper editor, cutting and pasting and forging a shape out of the raw material they gave him. Let's do that.
Characters we have so far include Bill, Sue, Tank, and Sampras the rabbit. Sampras is kind of unique since his figure isn't really anthropomorphised, he just looks like someone plonked a big rabbit in the middle of a toy set.
I'll start the ball rolling by showing you some characters I have who I think might fit in this game:
This band is called Crash 'n' The Boys unless there's already a band called Crash 'n' The Boys in which case I don't know. The drummer keeps falling asleep. I'm not sure how these guys fit in with the concept at present.
This is a blue sky session. There are no bad ideas! |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:13 am Post subject: |
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i like kitty hitler playing the fiddle there. _________________
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Dracko .
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:20 am Post subject: |
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_________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!" |
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OtakupunkX .
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 730
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Wasn't Crash 'n' The Boys the name Technos was going to use for the Americanized Nekketsu Kohua Kunio-Kun games back in the early 90's? Great stuff, I'm really liking this. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:46 am Post subject: |
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yes.
i think crash 'n the boys is the name of a band in scott pilgrim, which i havn't read yet, but i will soon, because i promised nana. _________________
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Ketch .
Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Let them eat cake! |
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OtakupunkX .
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 730
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:00 am Post subject: |
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There should be some kind of turtle character who's afraid of others. By befriending him with cake, the player could somehow help him overcome his fear of socialization so the turtle can lead a happy life. It would be a very interesting, possibly heartwarming experience seeing the turtle gain self-esteem through cakes and then making friends with another NPC. |
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Dracko .
Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:13 am Post subject: |
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... But then his up-and-coming socialite lifestyle could cause trouble for the entire community! _________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!" |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:11 am Post subject: |
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OtakupunkX wrote: | There should be some kind of turtle character who's afraid of others. By befriending him with cake, the player could somehow help him overcome his fear of socialization so the turtle can lead a happy life. It would be a very interesting, possibly heartwarming experience seeing the turtle gain self-esteem through cakes and then making friends with another NPC. |
Dracko wrote: | ... But then his up-and-coming socialite lifestyle could cause trouble for the entire community! |
This is ace. Keep 'em coming. |
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Lackey .
Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Re: Homestar, I recommend just watching a couple of the middle period Strong Bad emails. The emails are usually the funniest bits with the shorts being too structured and less conceptual. You could probably aquaint yourself in 10-15 minutes but the fiber of the thing is very layered. It's probably the most consistent and accomplished project of its sort on the web. Anyway there's that proverb about books and covers. Wouldn't recommend reading an entire book though. I wonder which title page you got.
I wouldn't mention it in the same sentence as Super Happy Tree Friends though. That's just wrong! _________________ | Little bird fighting against a bat sect game | |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Lackey wrote: | Re: Homestar, I recommend just watching a couple of the middle period Strong Bad emails. |
after that the site really jumped the shark. _________________
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:10 am Post subject: |
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I dunno, I just watched some mid-period Strong Bads. If it gets any worse than that, then damn. |
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OtakupunkX .
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 730
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Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: |
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The techno music one and the fishing one were really good. |
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Nana Komatsu weak sauce
Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293
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Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Harveyjames wrote: | Looks like this game is going to happen, then, since Nana has kindly offered her programming skills. |
I am worried what you want and what I proposed are irreconcilably different.
dessgeega wrote: | yes.
i think crash 'n the boys is the name of a band in scott pilgrim, which i havn't read yet, but i will soon, because i promised nana. |
It is! Until in third book the boys have an uprising and they become "The Boys and Crash"
Ketch wrote: | Let them eat cake! |
Marie Antoinette never actually said this. Wikipedia quotes her as originally saying
The Marienator wrote: | "It is quite certain that in seeing the people who treat us so well despite their own misfortune, we are more obliged than ever to work hard for their happiness. The king seems to understand this truth; as for myself, I know that in my whole life (even if I live for a hundred years) I shall never forget the day of the coronation. |
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OtakupunkX .
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 730
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Nana Komatsu wrote: | Marie Antoinette never actually said this. Wikipedia quotes her as originally saying
The Marienator wrote: | "It is quite certain that in seeing the people who treat us so well despite their own misfortune, we are more obliged than ever to work hard for their happiness. The king seems to understand this truth; as for myself, I know that in my whole life (even if I live for a hundred years) I shall never forget the day of the coronation. |
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See this thread. I don't really trust Wikipedia anymore, although that's entirely my own fault.
If you really, really need a programmer for Animal Cakeshop, (if your vision and Nana's vision do end up clashing) I could probably do the whole thing in DarkBASIC, it's just a matter of finding the time to do so. Other than that though, I'm willing to help out with anything else you guys need for this thing. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Alright, sweet. If you can, set aside a window in early January cause that's when this show gets on the road!!1
Nana offered to create the game as a sort of online infrastructure where new animals could be added month by month, which is probably a great idea but I think this would work better as a standalone, closed piece of work. I don't know anything about programming so I don't know. Maybe you should both program it.
I will knock up some concept screenshots when I get the chance. Maybe tonight! |
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Nana Komatsu weak sauce
Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293
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Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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I can build an online framework because that's what I do at work. It doesn't have to be continuously updated, it could be a one time thing. But it wouldn't be a standalone application (a game) mostly because I haven't written one of those in years now. |
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