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player 2 .
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:05 am Post subject: HOLY CRAp, THE WHITE MAN'S EVIL CORPORATION GETS THE WII |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L1EYmajYu0&eurl=
This is a video detailing how Madden Wii controls. Apparently it plays like a context sensitive QTE game. But instead of visual prompts of your buttons, you get visual prompts from your players. On your breakaway run all you do is move your remote in the direction of the baddy and you'll stiff arm him. If the pass looks like it's too high up, pull both sticks up.
It's like short tiny minigames, but with a context.
And that context is 20th century vicious man on man brutality in front of giant crowds of onlookers.
This is how the Wii should be played (if it works like they say it does). It is both intuitive, and it is set within a coherent context. Fuck minigame compilations. This is the kind of shit that the Wii should do.
Omg, I want to buy a Madden game. _________________ Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653
"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp |
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Lestrade Bug Fister
Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 1760 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Knowing nothing of football, I know I would at least like to try this game because it certainly looks interesting. That's the first time I've ever said that of a football game, which goes to show you something! |
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FortNinety Pheonix Wright
Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 250 Location: NY, NY
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately when I saw a bunch of Madden diehards, the same folks who buy the same damn game year after year, and love it, were so not into the contorls when they gave it a spin at DigitalLife. One guy gave it a shot for a solid five minutes (at least from what I saw), with a patient EA rep by his side, that in the end he almost threw the Wii-mote at the floor and yelled out "Fuck this shit, Madden belongs on Play-Station!" And a bunch of his buddies sorta cheered and gave each other skin. |
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player 2 .
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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That does sound very unfortunate. Although it's not anything unexpected. _________________ Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653
"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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That sounds wack, holmes. I don't like how the Wiimote is being used as the gateway to a million invisible buttons you can 'press' by doing some prescribed action, instead of as a new wave analogue controller.
So far Wii Baseball is about the only one that uses it properly as far as I've seen, since your movements seem to correspond exactly with the movement of the onscreen bat. The ball is affected by your real swing, rather than whether the computer recognised your swing as 'smash_hit_1'.
Monkey Ball seems promising, since you're tilting the playing field by tilting the wiimote, but other developers need to get their shit together. |
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player 2 .
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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That's the thing. They're not just buttons. They're natural movements just programmed to be understood by the Wii.
Gah. I want one so bad... _________________ Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653
"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp |
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Scratchmonkey .
Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hey! I used to work with that guy!
Or at least he was the Producer of MLB 2K4 at Blue Shift when I was a tester on that project. I would have to drive down from San Rafael to Palo Alto and test the game in their offices as we tried to get the game ready for submission. Back then he looked a little more like David Cross, since he had the nerd-frame glasses and a goatee. |
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Nana Komatsu weak sauce
Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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FortNinety wrote: | "Fuck this shit, Madden belongs on Play-Station!" |
Are we still wondering which console will "win this generation"? |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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You guys can't seriously have thought that a group of gamers who care more about whether their favorite player has on the right pair of shoes than how the game plays would have been interested more intuitive controls. That's just crazy talk.
-Wes _________________
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Legal Step .
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 81 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I think it looks kind of fun, much more than madden's been in the past. |
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Mr. Mechanical Friendly Stranger
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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I was in EBGames the other day and I heard someone say "Whoa, Madden '01?! I didn't know Madden went back that far!". |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Mechanical wrote: | I was in EBGames the other day and I heard someone say "Whoa, Madden '01?! I didn't know Madden went back that far!". |
Maybe they were referring to 1901?
-Wes _________________
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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SuperWes wrote: | Mr. Mechanical wrote: | I was in EBGames the other day and I heard someone say "Whoa, Madden '01?! I didn't know Madden went back that far!". |
Maybe they were referring to 1901?
-Wes |
In game screen shot of Madden '01:
_________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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Pijaibros .
Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Posts: 342 Location: Mistake by the Lake
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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that's a mighty impressive screenshot of praxinoscope madden
Last edited by Pijaibros on Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Its features included the introduction of protective headgear and the all-new Forward Lateral Mode for quarterbacks. _________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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ApM Admin Rockstar
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1210 Location: Ottawa, ON
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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SuperWes wrote: | You guys can't seriously have thought that a group of gamers who care more about whether their favorite player has on the right pair of shoes than how the game plays would have been interested more intuitive controls. That's just crazy talk. |
Man, Wes, you're the last person on these boards that I would've thought would make a generalization like that.
Seriously, everything about this line of thought is so wrong. Madden Guy, as I will refer to him, sounds every inch a Hardcore Gamer. He's probably sunk hundreds of hours into the series. He's fucking mastered it. Every yearly update brings subtle differences in strategy to this guy that are invisible to people who don't get off on analyzing football -- even if it just changes team stats around. You can't fucking tell me that dude doesn't care about how the game plays. And you can't tell me that the same dude, who sweated it out for five straight minutes before giving up in frustration, somehow lacks the brain capacity to grasp the "more intuitive controls" because he cares more about the players shoes.
All of a sudden he's given a Madden game that he can't control with a thousandth of the precision that he can with a joystick. It's a completely new skillset to learn just to throw the damn ball. To Madden Guy, it's like switching from a six-button arcade fighting stick to a power glove.
Maybe the controls are superior as well as novel and interesting! I don't know; I've never touched a Wii, and I've never played a game of video football where I didn't more or less choose plays at random. And until I do, I'm not going to try to pretend I somehow know better than Madden Guy about what makes a good football game. He's thought about it a hell of a lot more than me. |
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Nana Komatsu weak sauce
Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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s/Madden/(Street Fighter|Guilty Gear|King of Fighters)/g |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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ApM wrote: | SuperWes wrote: | You guys can't seriously have thought that a group of gamers who care more about whether their favorite player has on the right pair of shoes than how the game plays would have been interested more intuitive controls. That's just crazy talk. |
Man, Wes, you're the last person on these boards that I would've thought would make a generalization like that. |
Yeah, I kinda said it to get a response. And to fit in.
But yeah, sports gamers make me mad the way certain things seem to matter more than other. Apparently there are a lot of bugs in this year's NBA Live that are pissing people off. Most of it's semi-legit stuff (like animation routines getting stuck), but one of these movies made me wonder what the big deal was. This one in particular. It's a guy complaining about a few things that are kind of bad, but by the end it gets so nitpicky. What's up with the three point and layup complaints?
-Wes _________________
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Swimmy .
Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 990 Location: Fairfax, VA
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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From watching friends play NBA Live every year, I can tell you that they deserve to be nitpicky. It may sound like BS when they yell out "yo the game CHEATED!" but it really isn't. A lot of sports games, far as I can see, simply up the difficulty by cheating. The ball goes through a guy's chest, flies the opposite direction into someone's hands, gives the computer (or the player, depending) ridiculous scoring ability, etc. _________________
"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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player 2 wrote: | That's the thing. They're not just buttons. They're natural movements just programmed to be understood by the Wii.
Gah. I want one so bad... |
I get it, so the stick moves the player around but throwing, catching etc are done by miming a throw, a catch etc. Now I think about it, that sounds good.
I think my real gripe here is with games like Red Steel, where swiping the remote causes the game to play the 'sword_swipe' animation and do the prescribed amount of damage, instead of the onscreen sword procedurally mimicking your motions and calculating damage accordingly, if that makes sense. If all you're doing is triggering pre-programmed actions then you may as well be pressing buttons, and that's when the wiimote starts to feel gimmicky.
Mainly I'm just talking about games where the remote is a direct subsitute for something in the virtual world, be it a tennis racket or a sword. Obviously some games are more impressionistic, like in Mario where shaking the controller causes Mario to spin but the controller is not 'Mario' - these games get away with it a bit more.
I want the computer to measure the velocity of my sword swipes and translate it into damage! I want to be able to write my name on the wall in slashes! I don't want to play a game where I could get the same experience if I had a controller with 20 different buttons.
I really hope all of this makes sense and I don't just sound like a ranting loon. |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Harveyjames wrote: | I think my real gripe here is with games like Red Steel, where swiping the remote causes the game to play the 'sword_swipe' animation and do the prescribed amount of damage, instead of the onscreen sword procedurally mimicking your motions and calculating damage accordingly, if that makes sense. If all you're doing is triggering pre-programmed actions then you may as well be pressing buttons, and that's when the wiimote starts to feel gimmicky. |
Red Steel was by and far the most disapointing game at E3 exactly because of this. I could deal with the terrible graphics, but this was the nail in the coffin. Aparently I wasn't the only person who felt this way though and Ubisoft claims that it was fixed so the sword movements are more "real." But Ubisoft makes me nervous so I am holding off to play someone else's copy of it first. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Harveyjames wrote: | That sounds wack, holmes. I don't like how the Wiimote is being used as the gateway to a million invisible buttons you can 'press' by doing some prescribed action, instead of as a new wave analogue controller. |
From Go Nintendo, here is a response from AiLive developers about pretty much this question:
Quote: | We’re delighted that the community is energized with hot debates about the Wii. This means that there’s a very healthy enthusiasm and demand for the kinds of features that the Wii entails.
To respond to your specific statement, clearly there *are* ways to get a 1:1 interaction between the Wii-mote controller and the game character. The Metroid demo is a good example of that. Using the Wii-mote for driving and steering is equally straightforward as shown by some of the launch demos. It is true that it is more difficult to interpret the controller data in broader contexts. Developing immersive and intuitive controls in these contexts is definitely challenging but not impossible. In fact, this is precisely the reason why Nintendo asked us to create LiveMove. Rising to these kinds of technological challenges is what AiLive is all about. |
_________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 1:53 am Post subject: |
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Shapermc wrote: |
'In fact, this is precisely the reason why Nintendo asked us to create LiveMove. Rising to these kinds of technological challenges is what AiLive is all about.' |
Hmm, interesting. Livemove still seems like a step in the wrong direction, mind. To me, it doesn't seem like they have risen to these technical challenges so much as started juggling puppies in the ring next to the technical challenges in the hope we won't notice the technical challenges. Getting true 1:1 interaction must be really problematic. |
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