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bioshock my monkey! (now also about SPOILARZ)
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Cycle
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really haven't had the will to play this game. I'm not that far in, but already it's dissapointing. I mean, it still seems like a really cool game, but the potential of what could have been is just all over the damn place, that it's kidna depressing playing the game.

I'll get back to it eventually.
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dhex
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well depends on how much you're into shooters with adventure elements.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, I love me that stuff. Here, it isn't accomplished all that well, however.
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dhex
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i disagree, but oddly enough despite the frothitude i think my having given up on it when i found out it wouldn't run in 2000 removed any expectations i had, leaving me with a bit more rasa to my tabula, as it were.
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RaBeeWilliams
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2007 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nearly the same case for me, and way I'm willing to invest a little bit more patient with the game than the rest of the board, currently. I also think that an FPS of this scope is better handled in the house in was raised in, that being a mouse and keyboard for optimum Splicer wasting and Telekinetic usage.

A while back, after getting my reserve from Gamestop, I was waiting on my new video card to come in and didn't want the ugly smear of low setting play to taint my opinion of it. I trudged on, regaurdless, and faired better for it, for I was much more focused on the risk/reward experimental gameplay that it was noted for. Without too much of the risk of course, thanks to the respawn chambers. Just barreling at a Big Daddy and trying to take him down in one go before the Little Sisters retire to their shanty hole in the hole [sorry] really put a fun, non urgent feel to the game. You can dot your chest with a imaginative medal when you bring your foe down, or shake a baneful fist at the screen during your death animation and rush out the doors of the chamber to that same scenario and tackle the odds again, maybe being a little more clever in your approach. As it stand, I don't take those Daddies on at all, lest I can get some backup, also known as a bullet shield, or a closeline stand-in. With a rocket spewing turret, I'll bait the Daddy into it's line of fire, and once he gets annoyed enough to agro to it and mount a counter attack, I'll Lighting attack him and stun him. Which, in most cases would only allow for one free shot until he snaps back, which isn't much in just your case early on. But with an infinite supply of rockets on you side, that's quite a shot! Then, you just repeat the process above, equivalently slapping his hand from the batter with your wooden spoon over and over.

To me, the game offers many bounties and rewards for anyone willing to get sweat on their brow, and never did any choice I made seemed frowned upon or punishable. That's the most I could have asked for with this game.

So, on my second playthrough of the game along with my card and reaffirmed since of scope and possibilities, I'm still enjoying my trip to Rapture as I can allow myself to mold into the dystopia rather than just waiting for my turn to do something, a la HL2 Ep. 1 and it's trapped arena battles and lack of exploration, thanks to your on-board travel guide. But, maybe I'm being too smart for my own good. More on this a bit later, once the guile in me subsides.
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silentmatt
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim wrote:
I wish we could unlock Hard mode like in the Stranglehold demo though.


Since it hasn't been mentioned anywhere else on-site.... The Stranglehold demo came to the PSN the other day. The best thing I can say about it: I'm glad they released a demo so I don't have to throw money at buying the retail.

It is an interesting game, in the whole "let's make this as cinematic as possible" but all-in-all... I doubt I will ever replay the demo nevermind caring enough to playthrough the entire game.
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silentmatt, you really need to get a 360.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My girlfriend would kill me.


Seriously.

Plus, all my computers (which are all Apple) would probably suddenly just... die. I haven't supported anything Microsoft since I was 17 and don't really want to buck that trend now.


Plus, I am really happy with the PS3, other than the sixaxis crap. But! Even the sixaxis stuff can be alright: for example, I didn't mind it in Ninja Gaiden (remembering that I also only used ninpo as a last resort in most situations). I am just really tired of the whole "motion sensing IS THE FUTURE" argument. I like buttons.
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Microsoft
We like buttons too.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant!
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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get it! Why did he throw away all his get well soon cards? Who is this man?
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The Great Unwashed
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OBJECTION
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dhex
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i still don't get it.

and yeah it is a successor. it's just not the one people dreamed up.
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Scratchmonkey
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's not much to get. And yeah, this game is pretty good. Just blundered into Arcadia.
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RaBeeWilliams
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still need to jump into SS2 now that I've filed away both endings, two endings to leave more to the imagination. They're epilogues, very wholesome and well meaning ones, including the one for rescuing all the Little Sisters. And they're sort of distant in a way where you can let your imagination take over, just like how the game prides itself. It's like finishing a sliver plater, and beautifully presented, banquet of a dish you (that weren't sure about at the start) with an airy, easy to down wine. But, I guess some people still give the check afterwards a grieving eye.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The endings were both weak and resolved nothing. You have the trite X-Files style twist and the patronising Won't Somebody Please Think of the Ur-Infants one.

God, this game has left such a dire taste in my mouth.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have no problem with unresolved endings (i.e. that's probably a decent sign of a maturing art form) but i don't really know how else you would have ended it.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maturing? They don't acknowledge any of the ideas presented throughout the gaming experience. The setting could have been anything, the events any events, the characters, any characters. It wouldn't have mattered, because both endings are trite Hollywood conventions.

They're about as stupid as video games get.
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kuzdu
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like the endings wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't come so abruptly, and after such a disappointing final boss.
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dhex
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shrug man, shrug. baby steps here, after all, it's just games. even planescape didn't exactly destroy all literary conventions, it just did them up real good in a format that wasn't used to it.

doing regular ole hollywood blow em ups is basically a good thing, by the measures of a field which are so deeply anime-japano-fucked.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree: It's just games. Hence why the utter pretension of it all was undermined by not going the full mile. It's downright insulting.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

insulting?

that's a bit heavy on the crazysauce, ain't it?

i mean, i liked bioshock, but i also liked system shock 2. and hell, i really liked far cry, even with the fucking mutants. i didn't have these sorts of expectations that it would change everything - i just want something that's fun to play.

and fun was had.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's insulting because they present it as a revolution, and revolution it wasn't.

System Shock 2 did it better, in spite of its ending, and could juggle its ideas without a hitch. BioShock only keeps the pretence to them and that's it.

I liked Far Cry too, man. And I adore Serious Sam.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ehh marketing?

i guess i fail to see the insult here, but i am notoriously cynical.
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RaBeeWilliams
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can we at least bring some attention to how differently perceived playing the game on either media available chances the accessibility?

Let's construct something instead of arguments.


I think we need to stop acting like there's no barrier between the two mediums and open some dialog about them.

For example, having to look down at the ground for goodies to pick up and to search corpses (especially in Arcadia) probably gets really dry. Does the 360 version have anyway to reset your view, such as walking straight while leaving the right stick in neutral? I think that little things like that can ease the visual partaking and arrowhead hunting respectively.

And to add, Drako, you've really exampled your contempt for the game very clearly, but if you're going to counterpoint Dhex for his vanilla statements just to repeat yourself, enough's enough. I think that Dhex is right in saying that it's a little closer to more eloquent standards of story telling to keep from hand over fisting endings with context about characters that we may or may not have cared about. That's sort of the bane of video games and it's constant string of player to NPC relay. The programmers only have as much control over your interpretations and your emotions as far as their own harddrives and servers will go during production. That's a Hell of a long distance. This more lax, and yes, easier approach is barebones and simple, being easier to appeal. You're clearly not happy about the static nature of that, and that's cool. That was a viable out that I'm sure they weighed as well. But, no amount of internet venting or trolling is going to change that unless you decide to.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been seeing a fair amount of momentary freezes on the 360, and then one great big whammy of a freeze. Luckily I had saved not TOO too long before that.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started Bioshock today.


I just left for Neptune after killing Steinman and a Big Daddy and all, but I'm fairly convinced that the game is better if you admit to complicity with Rapture rather than pretend you have a moral opposition to it. This is easier when you give attention to its (much less ballyhooed) criticism of free market economies rather than the anti-objectivism tendencies.

Honestly, my least favorite part of this game so far is the choice to kill or rescue the Little Sisters. It's a pointless strand of real morality to confront in what is otherwise a gorgeously grotesque world. I have made the decision to rescue the Little Sisters. We'll see what happens. (What does waving a hand in front of a face have to do with rescuing them? Is there some sort of explanation for this later in the game? Right now it's a pretty silly gesture.)

A much more compelling moral dilemma is the choice for how to power yourself up. It forces you to participate in the corruption that plagued Rapture's economy. It also helps that nearly all the power-ups are anti-social: violent, subversive, or both. Winning the game (whether or not that's a good thing) requires that you shock the living shit out of someone, burn them alive, pummel them with a high-velocity corpse, crack their skulls with a wrench, etc. And your enemies are...well, they wear masks: but a mask is just a cover-up. They're human, too, right?

I am dissatisfied that Bioshock uses a slot-system for managing genetic modifications. Has there ever been a less graceful and more pervasive videogame convention?
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hand waving is apparently what requires to be done when you're given the relevant Plasmid, seconds before your first (in a series of utterly meaningless) decisions.

It's interesting that you bring up the character evolution as a better moral question, though it's not particularly accentuated: Check out your character's appearance as you progress through the game. A specific Plasmid will allow you to do so.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
(What does waving a hand in front of a face have to do with rescuing them? Is there some sort of explanation for this later in the game? Right now it's a pretty silly gesture.)

Doesn't he spread his palm against the girls' foreheads and then there's all the glowy veins and such? I got the impression he was sucking the adam right out.

I feel like they really missed an opportunity for moral-musing here when they decided to make every other character in the city a powerspeed zombie. I mean consider what the implications would be if you went around shooting everyone for being a monster when they were just trying to get along with some semblance of their strange half life. Probably nothing, but still! It was a bit silly when there's this "aw, mother crying over her long gone baby moment" that terminates in LEADHEAD SPLICER ATTACK!

Also why is it not a moral question to attack the big daddies in the first place? They're just minding they're own business, really you are being an asshole about that if you go out of your way to kill them. They want nothing but to protect their friends who you've decided need to be real little girls. What a jerk!
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was more affected by gunning down Big Daddies than I was dealing the evil brats that keep screaming at you to drop dead.

Not that that lasted long, because they very quickly become just another enemy model with not all that much fluctuating personality.
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sediment
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, consider that it's Tenenbaum who made them into the Frankensteinian creatures they are at the start of the game, and it's Tenenbaum who recants her initial experiment and delivers to you the method of their deliverance from Adam. It's very telling that she turns out like this, after she described to Steinman and Suichong that they're like terminal patients more than people, and that extracting the Adam is like "pulling the plug."

I definitely agree on the whole "everyone else is a zombie" thing. I myself am only at Neptune's Bounty (I'm playing it at a friend's house) but like... you don't even find as many "friendly" audio logs as you did in System Shock 2. I think that sort of hampers the immersion... one of my favourite things from SS2 was hiding in a chemical closet and listening to the audio logs. Sure, they were all dead or mindless (except for Diego, Rebecca and Santiago or whatever his name was) but you still had a lot more dialog from a lot more people. The majority of the Bioshock logs I've found have been from people who are still alive, but I figure I'll probably have to kill.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
I was more affected by gunning down Big Daddies than I was dealing the evil brats that keep screaming at you to drop dead.


It felt a bit like I was whaling. Agreed on the second point too. The only exception I can think of to the zombies-everywhere is a part with two splicers dancing together in a ruined ballroom. I just took some pictures and left them alone.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did the same thing. If you knock the record player over, they go ballistic, though.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too was also more moved when killing the big daddies. Made me a little depressed when they started moaning and had blood and... gas stuff shotting out their helmets. I like that whaling comparison.

Also, if you don't kill the Cohen when you first get the chance, he'll be in the room with the dancers. He'll tell you to leave them alone and admire their beauty, and if you screw around with them he'll come STORMING out of his room and mess your face up. This also allows you to get in his room (which is otherwise locked) and take a picture of his corpse since you would have missed that chance earlier.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Played for a while longer tonight.

Fuck the pre-release interviews with Ken Levine. This is a game about economy, not ecology.


I am anxious to see how it all plays out, but it's interesting that Rapture's excessive reliance on the dollar has been supplanted by a more powerful currency: Adam.


Vending Machines. Smugglers. Murder.



A culture that is exceedingly dependent on alcohol and cheap snacks for nourishment.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

booze and cheap snacks seem to be the fpsrpg hybrid consumables of choice.
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Patrick Alexander
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not played Bioshock.
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